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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jul 2, 2021 18:21:03 GMT -5
I like him quite a lot, but given he's one half of my OTP, I might be biased
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Post by Rainsplash on Jul 2, 2021 18:29:50 GMT -5
I like him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2021 18:52:24 GMT -5
I love Crowfeather
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Post by Mothdapple on Jul 2, 2021 18:57:41 GMT -5
He’s one of my favorite characters. My boy.
He’s absolutely one of the most complex characters in Warriors and I love him so much for it.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jul 2, 2021 19:36:45 GMT -5
Meh. Neutral, kinda dislike still. I’m not a fan of neglectful fathers, and he’s another one of those characters that tends to really get babied and excused by parts of the fandom. I dunno, I never found him complex. He was alright in CT, and I’m glad he finally owned up for his awful parenting.
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Post by cygna on Jul 2, 2021 20:05:49 GMT -5
Crowfeather made me feel so many emotions. I feel like his journey so far has been a very realistic one and that people can relate to his character at some point. Crowfeather does not have the most likable personality for sure but I liked that about his character too. When he's wrong he's portrayed as wrong(unlike some ginger she-cat who gets away with everything) and that's one of the best things about him. Crowfeather was never a character the Erins made excuses for and his actions always had consequences that ended up biting him in the tail. Ex: He neglect of Breezepelt ended up doing lots of harm to both of them and other cats too, and his rejection of the three made them reject him as well. He can't take back the harm he's already done. However he can try to be better and that's what his super edition is about. Things in his super edition didn't end in sunshine and rainbows either, Hollyleaf is gone and he won't get the chance to be anything to her, Lionblaze and especially Jayfeather don't think of him as kin, and while his relationship with Breezepelt is the best it's ever been they can't change that past and some irreversible damage has already been done.
In conclusion I love him and I've loved him since I was a kid. I connected to him in a way I couldn't connect to any other protagonist that arc or before. His journey is tragic & inspiring. It's weird to say since he's fictional and all but I'm quite proud of how far he's come and he holds a very important place in my warrior cats fan heart.
I'm sorry if you had to read all this, but yeah I'm a weirdo who loves this jerk.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Jul 2, 2021 22:10:33 GMT -5
He's okay. I'm glad his family drama is over and he was able to become a better cat.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 2, 2021 22:39:36 GMT -5
I love him. He's really well-written and complex for me.
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Post by ʙʀᴀᴄᴋᴇɴꜱᴜɴ ♞ on Jul 3, 2021 6:31:24 GMT -5
Cool guy. 10 crowfeathers out of ten.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jul 3, 2021 6:49:31 GMT -5
I like him, bordering on love. I liked him even more when he tried to make it up to Breezepelt.
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Post by Aqua on Jul 3, 2021 9:04:04 GMT -5
He's okay, but the fandom kind of ruined him for me because of how they say "Everything is Crowfeather's fault!!11111!!!!!111111!" Can't even talk about him without someone constantly blaming him for something, it's kind of annoying. It feels like I can't say anything positive about him without someone debating or reminding me about how bad he was to Breezepelt. Now I just don't care for him.
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Post by Mothdapple on Jul 3, 2021 13:57:24 GMT -5
He's okay, but the fandom kind of ruined him for me because of how they say "Everything is Crowfeather's fault!!11111!!!!!111111!" Can't even talk about him without someone constantly blaming him for something, it's kind of annoying. It feels like I can't say anything positive about him without someone debating or reminding me about how bad he was to Breezepelt. Now I just don't care for him. Yeah. I hate how the fandom started to demonize him, even calling him an abusive mate to Nightcloud, which is not true. I also hate that people make it seem like Nightcloud is some victim due to Crowfeather’s actions and feels betrayed by the fact that he loves Feathertail/Leafpool more. Heck, Nightcloud never particularly liked Crowfeather herself for goodness sake. They both used each other, which ended up horribly, especially for their son Breezepelt.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 3, 2021 13:59:57 GMT -5
i like crowfeather. i have the biggest sympathies for him and i like talking about how sad and depressing his life was.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 3, 2021 14:14:04 GMT -5
Neutral/Dislike. I think my biggest gripe with him is that he gets babied in the fandom way too much and excused for his actions. I dislike that fans put him and Nightcloud on the same level of parenting, Nigthcloud was at least there for Breezepelt and trying to put effort into keeping their family together while Crowfeather neglected them both. Nightcloud was one thing, but his own child, whom he has a responsibility to help raise, is inexcusable. Not only was he constantly emotionally cheating on Nightcloud, the fact that he didn't acknowledge his son's effort nor show interest in even spending time with him just rubbed me the wrong way. I will say that as Crowpaw I found him more likable, but his behavior with Leafpool later and how they tried to run away, was very immature and annoying. And then using Nightcloud to make himself seem loyal just made me like him even less. He definitely went downhill for me, the only time I ever found him to be likable again was in CT where he finally owned up to the crap that he should have taken responsibility for ages ago. At the end of the day, Nightcloud deserved a better mate and father for her child, while Breezepelt deserved a better father period, but I do acknowledge that Crowfeather is at least trying now. Him realizing he could have had it good with his family in WC but realizing the damage was already done and trying to make up for it, was interesting.
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Post by Pixie on Jul 3, 2021 15:52:57 GMT -5
I like him. He’s such a comical character.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jul 3, 2021 17:04:51 GMT -5
I like Crowfeather. Before I didn't really care for him and thought he was a jerk, but his SE was very eye-opening and his growth as a character in there was wonderful to read. I'm glad his redemption arc wasn't screwed up and he became a better cat in the end.
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Post by crispyfriedtoes on Jul 3, 2021 17:13:59 GMT -5
Neutral/Dislike. I think my biggest gripe with him is that he gets babied in the fandom way too much and excused for his actions. I dislike that fans put him and Nightcloud on the same level of parenting, Nigthcloud was at least there for Breezepelt and trying to put effort into keeping their family together while Crowfeather neglected them both. Nightcloud was one thing, but his own child, whom he has a responsibility to help raise, is inexcusable. Not only was he constantly emotionally cheating on Nightcloud, the fact that he didn't acknowledge his son's effort nor show interest in even spending time with him just rubbed me the wrong way. I will say that as Crowpaw I found him more likable, but his behavior with Leafpool later and how they tried to run away, was very immature and annoying. And then using Nightcloud to make himself seem loyal just made me like him even less. He definitely went downhill for me, the only time I ever found him to be likable again was in CT where he finally owned up to the crap that he should have taken responsibility for ages ago. At the end of the day, Nightcloud deserved a better mate and father for her child, while Breezepelt deserved a better father period, but I do acknowledge that Crowfeather is at least trying now. Him realizing he could have had it good with his family in WC but realizing the damage was already done and trying to make up for it, was interesting. I respectfully disagree. First of all, Crowfeather never neglected either of them. Neglect is the practice of ignoring or intentionally avoiding the victim completely. The only implication of the idea that Crowfeather "neglected" them is the fact that he simply didn't reciprocate to Nightcloud's possessive behavior, which did lead to her feeling excluded, but he is not neglectful to do so. Nightcloud was always seen leaning on Crowfeather despite him being clearly uncomfortable with this kind of physical contact. Nightcloud was old enough to understandsocial boundaries, but she crossed them anyway. Nightcloud and Crowfeather are both absolutely on the same level. Nightcloud didnt give Breezepelt the "support he needed", she spoiled him to the extent that she is seen multiple times refusing to allow Crowfeather to even speak to his son and seemingly convincing Breezepaw that his father hated him. Nightcloud's method of parenting is extremely unhealthy. She encouraged Breezepelt's murderous behavior against Crowfeather's ThunderClan children when should understand better than anyone what it's like to lose a kit, having lost two while kitting. Shunning your partner for speaking to their ex, talking shit about your husband to your son, and even going to the extent of physically attacking them because of it is abusive. She is not the victim.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 3, 2021 18:36:29 GMT -5
Neutral/Dislike. I think my biggest gripe with him is that he gets babied in the fandom way too much and excused for his actions. I dislike that fans put him and Nightcloud on the same level of parenting, Nigthcloud was at least there for Breezepelt and trying to put effort into keeping their family together while Crowfeather neglected them both. Nightcloud was one thing, but his own child, whom he has a responsibility to help raise, is inexcusable. Not only was he constantly emotionally cheating on Nightcloud, the fact that he didn't acknowledge his son's effort nor show interest in even spending time with him just rubbed me the wrong way. I will say that as Crowpaw I found him more likable, but his behavior with Leafpool later and how they tried to run away, was very immature and annoying. And then using Nightcloud to make himself seem loyal just made me like him even less. He definitely went downhill for me, the only time I ever found him to be likable again was in CT where he finally owned up to the crap that he should have taken responsibility for ages ago. At the end of the day, Nightcloud deserved a better mate and father for her child, while Breezepelt deserved a better father period, but I do acknowledge that Crowfeather is at least trying now. Him realizing he could have had it good with his family in WC but realizing the damage was already done and trying to make up for it, was interesting. I respectfully disagree. First of all, Crowfeather never neglected either of them. Neglect is the practice of ignoring or intentionally avoiding the victim completely. The only implication of the idea that Crowfeather "neglected" them is the fact that he simply didn't reciprocate to Nightcloud's possessive behavior, which did lead to her feeling excluded, but he is not neglectful to do so. Nightcloud was always seen leaning on Crowfeather despite him being clearly uncomfortable with this kind of physical contact. Nightcloud was old enough to understandsocial boundaries, but she crossed them anyway. Nightcloud and Crowfeather are both absolutely on the same level. Nightcloud didnt give Breezepelt the "support he needed", she spoiled him to the extent that she is seen multiple times refusing to allow Crowfeather to even speak to his son and seemingly convincing Breezepaw that his father hated him. Nightcloud's method of parenting is extremely unhealthy. She encouraged Breezepelt's murderous behavior against Crowfeather's ThunderClan children when should understand better than anyone what it's like to lose a kit, having lost two while kitting. Shunning your partner for speaking to their ex, talking shit about your husband to your son, and even going to the extent of physically attacking them because of it is abusive. She is not the victim. Neglect is the act of failing to care for someone or something properly, not just avoiding something. I'm aware of what neglect is because I have been a victim of his myself. Neglect is a form of abuse, and can happen to any one and by any one else. In this case it is from Crowfeather toward both Nightcloud and especially Breezepelt. Being mates in warriors is the equivalent of being married, both Crowfeather and Nightcloud were in a consenting relationship, and romantic partners who had a child together (children if you count her kits that passed away not long after birth). I fail to see how Nightcloud's behavior prior to the gathering made her "possessive" in any way toward Crowfeather. He had no excuse to how he treated her and Breezepelt before the gathering. Nightcloud showed jealousy when Crowfeather was too busy speaking with Leafpool to even acknowledge his own wife, but that's fair, Leafpool was also shown as jealous toward Night a few times, does that mean she's possessive too? There's also the instant where Nigthcloud was being loving toward Crowfeather and saying good bye to him before he went to mountains, but he simply gave her a lick and was noted to be disinterested and distant, no where does it show him being or noted as "uncomfortable" just lack of caring toward his mate, and even his son later on. Later during the fight between Lion and Breeze, Crowfeather also reveals that he was still bitter over Leafpool not choosing him and he's obviously still in love with her at that point. The Erins have also confirmed that he never loved Nightcloud even if he did care about her as a clanmate, despite taking her as a mate. He was using her and Breezepelt to seem loyal in the eyes of his clan, and he was still in love with Leafpool at the time while also still not over Feathertail. Nigthcloud, thinking they could have a normal family together, and thinking hat Crowfeather could love her, never had a chance because he was emotionally cheating on her from the start. Regardless, it doesn't excuse him neglecting Breezepelt and not acting like a proper father should. In CT, Crowfeather actually is shown to STILL have the hots for Nightcloud despite not being into her romantically. Nightcloud also expresses regret for being unable to keep their family together after everything they've gone through. And Crowfeather, dumbly enough, expresses jealousy while she's with Pickle and even asks her to be mates again at one point. Not because he loves her either, to which Nightlcloud was aware of this and turns him down When Nightcloud admitted to Crowfeather how she almost didn't want to come back to WC because of how kind and generous Pickle was to her, Crowfeather, who had been jealous, had expressed regret and apologized for never treating her that way. He never treated her how a mate should have treated her due to his neglect of their relationship which was already evident in the scene before he left for the mountains with only Feathertail on the mind. Nighcloud and Crowfeather are not, and never will be, on the same level. Neither are perfect parents, but Nightcloud, by far, is still the better parent. It's better to at least be there for your child over just outright neglecting them even if you're bodily present. Nightcloud was a helicopter parent, she already lost two of her kits, and Breezepelt was all she had left. It makes sense that she was overprotective of him, especially when he was in a life or death situation at one point. However, the only times she ever did step in and defend him was from Crowfeather's harsh criticism. And the way he adressed his son was written in a negative light consistently. Nightcloud would chide Crowfeather for his lack of faith in his son as a warrior, and then later in CT she would counter his harsh words and call him out for being a crappy father. Honestly, I think it's something that not even Crowfeather was aware of himself until CT, when it came to how he spoke toward Breezepelt. Additionally, when both Crowfeather and Breezepaw were in an environment, a situation where it was just him and Crowfeather, while Nightcloud stayed behind, he still was harsh on his son and neglectful. During the trip to the mountain, Breezepaw was sent with Crowfeather so they could at least have time to bond better, and Nightcloud was obviously fine with this otherwise she would have opposed it from the start. During the three's POV, they continuously noted how harsh Crowfeather was toward Breezepaw, and ironically noted how glad they were that Crowfeather wasn't their father. Breezepaw very much kept trying to get on his father's good side, bending over backwards for his attention and approval, only to be harshly scolded by him through out the trip. The fact that he outright ignored Breezepaw, ironically, in favor of Lionpaw, makes it even worse, because it was shown to obviously hurt Breezepaw and his mentality. It was also noted that while Crowfeather was obsessed with Feathertail and visiting her grave, Breezepaw was watching from a distances, and listening to what others were saying about his father. Like how he was in love with Feathertail, and quite obviously still was. It is because of Crowfeather's neglect that Breezepaw grew up believing his father didn't love him. There was an obvious strain in their relationship, the fact that even cats outside of their family were even aware of it, and even someone like Onestar of all people was telling Crowfeather to get it together, says enough. Crowfeather, in CT especially, was aware of his lack of presence in his son's life, and didn't realize just how good of a cat he could have been if he was a better father figure to him. He also realizes just how good he could have had it with Nightcloud, and acknowledges to never treating her like how Pickle could have, and how a mate is supposed to in general. Nightcloud may not be a perfect mother, but she was still a mother to Breezepaw, and raised him for the most part on her own, as opposed to Crowfeather, who was only there physically but neglected his son and mate emotionally. He even at one point only put the blame on Nightcloud, but in CT realizes that he was more to blame and that he should have done a better job as a mate and father, but he was too caught up in his bitterness over losing Feather and Leaf. Also, no where in the books does it show that Nightcloud encouraged any murderous behavior. The ones that actually did it was the Dark Forest, and Breezepelt's reasoning for joining them had NOTHING to do with his relationship with Nightcloud. Breezepelt joined the Dark Forest after the gathering secret was revealed, not before. It is because at this point he believed that his father actually loved his TC children more (and considering how he favored Lion over him in the mountains he has no reason to believe otherwise), AND because according to the code his half siblings shouldn't even exists. He also blames his father for the reasons why his family was always gossiped about, and why he was treated like an outcasts. This is why his targets were Crowfeahter(Neglecting him and breaking the code), Leafpool(making Crowfeather break the code), Hollyleaf(existing), Jayfeather(existing) and Lionblaze(existing, and being his long term rival). There is an entire scene where the Dark Forest are shown, circling and encouraging murderous behavior, and trying to make Breezepelt believe that what he was doing was right. They told him that he had to get his revenge, not because or for Nightcloud, but because of his father and how he was treated by him. Even when Breezepelt attacked Jayfeather, it was because he wanted Jayfeather to feel the same way he did, and Brokenstar himself was encouraging him to do it. Later when Breezepelt confront Lionblaze, he reveals he didn't care about the DF's goal, only that they helped made him stronger and gave him the opportunity to get his revenge. Prior to the gathering, there is NO evidence that Nightcloud shunned Crowfeather for speaking to Leafpool, and neither is there evidence that Nightcloud was shit talking Crowfeather to Breezepelt. The only times the latter was even brought up was in an guide book filled with inconsistencies, and Crowfeather pushing the blame of Breezepelt's behavior onto his mate, which is scummy on it's own, and showing his lack of responsibility in general. Crowfeather has very much admitted to his lack of presence in both Nightcloud and Breezepelt's lives, as a mate and father, already in CT, so everything I already said was already confirmed via the actual canon books and straight from the horse's mouth. Nightcloud and Breezepelt are both victims, you can be a victims even if you aren't a good person.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 3, 2021 18:45:28 GMT -5
I didn't like him before, but now I do. I have nostalgia bias on the older characters that were important in Omen of the Stars and before that. They just seem to be more interesting and written with more love than the newest ones.
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Post by Mothdapple on Jul 3, 2021 19:21:50 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. First of all, Crowfeather never neglected either of them. Neglect is the practice of ignoring or intentionally avoiding the victim completely. The only implication of the idea that Crowfeather "neglected" them is the fact that he simply didn't reciprocate to Nightcloud's possessive behavior, which did lead to her feeling excluded, but he is not neglectful to do so. Nightcloud was always seen leaning on Crowfeather despite him being clearly uncomfortable with this kind of physical contact. Nightcloud was old enough to understandsocial boundaries, but she crossed them anyway. Nightcloud and Crowfeather are both absolutely on the same level. Nightcloud didnt give Breezepelt the "support he needed", she spoiled him to the extent that she is seen multiple times refusing to allow Crowfeather to even speak to his son and seemingly convincing Breezepaw that his father hated him. Nightcloud's method of parenting is extremely unhealthy. She encouraged Breezepelt's murderous behavior against Crowfeather's ThunderClan children when should understand better than anyone what it's like to lose a kit, having lost two while kitting. Shunning your partner for speaking to their ex, talking shit about your husband to your son, and even going to the extent of physically attacking them because of it is abusive. She is not the victim. Neglect is the act of failing to care for someone or something properly, not just avoiding something. I'm aware of what neglect is because I have been a victim of his myself. Neglect is a form of abuse, and can happen to any one and by any one else. In this case it is from Crowfeather toward both Nightcloud and especially Breezepelt. Being mates in warriors is the equivalent of being married, both Crowfeather and Nightcloud were in a consenting relationship, and romantic partners who had a child together (children if you count her kits that passed away not long after birth). I fail to see how Nightcloud's behavior prior to the gathering made her "possessive" in any way toward Crowfeather. He had no excuse to how he treated her and Breezepelt before the gathering. Nightcloud showed jealousy when Crowfeather was too busy speaking with Leafpool to even acknowledge his own wife, but that's fair, Leafpool was also shown as jealous toward Night a few times, does that mean she's possessive too? There's also the instant where Nigthcloud was being loving toward Crowfeather and saying good bye to him before he went to mountains, but he simply gave her a lick and was noted to be disinterested and distant, no where does it show him being or noted as "uncomfortable" just lack of caring toward his mate, and even his son later on. Later during the fight between Lion and Breeze, Crowfeather also reveals that he was still bitter over Leafpool not choosing him and he's obviously still in love with her at that point. The Erins have also confirmed that he never loved Nightcloud even if he did care about her as a clanmate, despite taking her as a mate. He was using her and Breezepelt to seem loyal in the eyes of his clan, and he was still in love with Leafpool at the time while also still not over Feathertail. Nigthcloud, thinking they could have a normal family together, and thinking hat Crowfeather could love her, never had a chance because he was emotionally cheating on her from the start. Regardless, it doesn't excuse him neglecting Breezepelt and not acting like a proper father should. In CT, Crowfeather actually is shown to STILL have the hots for Nightcloud despite not being into her romantically. Nightcloud also expresses regret for being unable to keep their family together after everything they've gone through. And Crowfeather, dumbly enough, expresses jealousy while she's with Pickle and even asks her to be mates again at one point. Not because he loves her either, to which Nightlcloud was aware of this and turns him down When Nightcloud admitted to Crowfeather how she almost didn't want to come back to WC because of how kind and generous Pickle was to her, Crowfeather, who had been jealous, had expressed regret and apologized for never treating her that way. He never treated her how a mate should have treated her due to his neglect of their relationship which was already evident in the scene before he left for the mountains with only Feathertail on the mind. Nighcloud and Crowfeather are not, and never will be, on the same level. Neither are perfect parents, but Nightcloud, by far, is still the better parent. It's better to at least be there for your child over just outright neglecting them even if you're bodily present. Nightcloud was a helicopter parent, she already lost two of her kits, and Breezepelt was all she had left. It makes sense that she was overprotective of him, especially when he was in a life or death situation at one point. However, the only times she ever did step in and defend him was from Crowfeather's harsh criticism. And the way he adressed his son was written in a negative light consistently. Nightcloud would chide Crowfeather for his lack of faith in his son as a warrior, and then later in CT she would counter his harsh words and call him out for being a crappy father. Honestly, I think it's something that not even Crowfeather was aware of himself until CT, when it came to how he spoke toward Breezepelt. Additionally, when both Crowfeather and Breezepaw were in an environment, a situation where it was just him and Crowfeather, while Nightcloud stayed behind, he still was harsh on his son and neglectful. During the trip to the mountain, Breezepaw was sent with Crowfeather so they could at least have time to bond better, and Nightcloud was obviously fine with this otherwise she would have opposed it from the start. During the three's POV, they continuously noted how harsh Crowfeather was toward Breezepaw, and ironically noted how glad they were that Crowfeather wasn't their father. Breezepaw very much kept trying to get on his father's good side, bending over backwards for his attention and approval, only to be harshly scolded by him through out the trip. The fact that he outright ignored Breezepaw, ironically, in favor of Lionpaw, makes it even worse, because it was shown to obviously hurt Breezepaw and his mentality. It was also noted that while Crowfeather was obsessed with Feathertail and visiting her grave, Breezepaw was watching from a distances, and listening to what others were saying about his father. Like how he was in love with Feathertail, and quite obviously still was. It is because of Crowfeather's neglect that Breezepaw grew up believing his father didn't love him. There was an obvious strain in their relationship, the fact that even cats outside of their family were even aware of it, and even someone like Onestar of all people was telling Crowfeather to get it together, says enough. Crowfeather, in CT especially, was aware of his lack of presence in his son's life, and didn't realize just how good of a cat he could have been if he was a better father figure to him. He also realizes just how good he could have had it with Nightcloud, and acknowledges to never treating her like how Pickle could have, and how a mate is supposed to in general. Nightcloud may not be a perfect mother, but she was still a mother to Breezepaw, and raised him for the most part on her own, as opposed to Crowfeather, who was only there physically but neglected his son and mate emotionally. He even at one point only put the blame on Nightcloud, but in CT realizes that he was more to blame and that he should have done a better job as a mate and father, but he was too caught up in his bitterness over losing Feather and Leaf. Also, no where in the books does it show that Nightcloud encouraged any murderous behavior. The ones that actually did it was the Dark Forest, and Breezepelt's reasoning for joining them had NOTHING to do with his relationship with Nightcloud. Breezepelt joined the Dark Forest after the gathering secret was revealed, not before. It is because at this point he believed that his father actually loved his TC children more (and considering how he favored Lion over him in the mountains he has no reason to believe otherwise), AND because according to the code his half siblings shouldn't even exists. He also blames his father for the reasons why his family was always gossiped about, and why he was treated like an outcasts. This is why his targets were Crowfeahter(Neglecting him and breaking the code), Leafpool(making Crowfeather break the code), Hollyleaf(existing), Jayfeather(existing) and Lionblaze(existing, and being his long term rival). There is an entire scene where the Dark Forest are shown, circling and encouraging murderous behavior, and trying to make Breezepelt believe that what he was doing was right. They told him that he had to get his revenge, not because or for Nightcloud, but because of his father and how he was treated by him. Even when Breezepelt attacked Jayfeather, it was because he wanted Jayfeather to feel the same way he did, and Brokenstar himself was encouraging him to do it. Later when Breezepelt confront Lionblaze, he reveals he didn't care about the DF's goal, only that they helped made him stronger and gave him the opportunity to get his revenge. Prior to the gathering, there is NO evidence that Nightcloud shunned Crowfeather for speaking to Leafpool, and neither is there evidence that Nightcloud was shit talking Crowfeather to Breezepelt. The only times the latter was even brought up was in an guide book filled with inconsistencies, and Crowfeather pushing the blame of Breezepelt's behavior onto his mate, which is scummy on it's own, and showing his lack of responsibility in general. Crowfeather has very much admitted to his lack of presence in both Nightcloud and Breezepelt's lives, as a mate and father, already in CT, so everything I already said was already confirmed via the actual canon books and straight from the horse's mouth. Nightcloud and Breezepelt are both victims, you can be a victims even if you aren't a good person. Nightcloud is not a victim. The only victim in their horrible situation is Breezepelt. Both Crowfeather and Nightcloud made the choice to get together despite not loving each other at all, which they shouldn’t have done at all. Crowfeather did so to prove loyalty to his Clan and Nightcloud did because she was older and afraid she would never have kits. In this way, they both used each other. Breezepelt was born into this horrible situation, with his parents not liking each other and bickering. Nightcloud was clearly possessive of Breezepelt while Crowfeather was distant and scolding. Nightcloud is bitter, snappy, and possessive, and that is shown throughout her appearances. She barely even lets Crowfeather talk to Leafpool or his kits with her without Nightcloud making a snarky comment. She hates CrowLeaf’s kits just because they’re CrowLeaf’s, even believing that Jayfeather let Flametail drown. She loves Breezepelt with her whole heart, sure, but she is possessive to a point where it’s negatively impacting Breezepelt. Crowfeather says that Nightcloud encouraged Breezepelt to hate him in TLH after stopping him from killing Lionblaze, which we have no evidence to show that it’s not true as we don’t have much screentime with just Night and Breeze together. I think without his parents bickering all the time and Nightcloud’s “encouragement,” Breezepelt would not be AS bad as he was in OOTS. Crowfeather’s neglect wasn’t the only factor. Both of Crowfeather and Nightcloud were horrible mates and parents. Yes, Nightcloud was a better parent than Crowfeather. But was she a good parent? No.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 3, 2021 19:39:35 GMT -5
Neglect is the act of failing to care for someone or something properly, not just avoiding something. I'm aware of what neglect is because I have been a victim of his myself. Neglect is a form of abuse, and can happen to any one and by any one else. In this case it is from Crowfeather toward both Nightcloud and especially Breezepelt.
Being mates in warriors is the equivalent of being married, both Crowfeather and Nightcloud were in a consenting relationship, and romantic partners who had a child together (children if you count her kits that passed away not long after birth). I fail to see how Nightcloud's behavior prior to the gathering made her "possessive" in any way toward Crowfeather. He had no excuse to how he treated her and Breezepelt before the gathering.
Nightcloud showed jealousy when Crowfeather was too busy speaking with Leafpool to even acknowledge his own wife, but that's fair, Leafpool was also shown as jealous toward Night a few times, does that mean she's possessive too? There's also the instant where Nigthcloud was being loving toward Crowfeather and saying good bye to him before he went to mountains, but he simply gave her a lick and was noted to be disinterested and distant, no where does it show him being or noted as "uncomfortable" just lack of caring toward his mate, and even his son later on.
Later during the fight between Lion and Breeze, Crowfeather also reveals that he was still bitter over Leafpool not choosing him and he's obviously still in love with her at that point. The Erins have also confirmed that he never loved Nightcloud even if he did care about her as a clanmate, despite taking her as a mate. He was using her and Breezepelt to seem loyal in the eyes of his clan, and he was still in love with Leafpool at the time while also still not over Feathertail. Nigthcloud, thinking they could have a normal family together, and thinking hat Crowfeather could love her, never had a chance because he was emotionally cheating on her from the start. Regardless, it doesn't excuse him neglecting Breezepelt and not acting like a proper father should.
In CT, Crowfeather actually is shown to STILL have the hots for Nightcloud despite not being into her romantically. Nightcloud also expresses regret for being unable to keep their family together after everything they've gone through. And Crowfeather, dumbly enough, expresses jealousy while she's with Pickle and even asks her to be mates again at one point. Not because he loves her either, to which Nightlcloud was aware of this and turns him down
When Nightcloud admitted to Crowfeather how she almost didn't want to come back to WC because of how kind and generous Pickle was to her, Crowfeather, who had been jealous, had expressed regret and apologized for never treating her that way. He never treated her how a mate should have treated her due to his neglect of their relationship which was already evident in the scene before he left for the mountains with only Feathertail on the mind.
Nighcloud and Crowfeather are not, and never will be, on the same level. Neither are perfect parents, but Nightcloud, by far, is still the better parent. It's better to at least be there for your child over just outright neglecting them even if you're bodily present. Nightcloud was a helicopter parent, she already lost two of her kits, and Breezepelt was all she had left. It makes sense that she was overprotective of him, especially when he was in a life or death situation at one point. However, the only times she ever did step in and defend him was from Crowfeather's harsh criticism. And the way he adressed his son was written in a negative light consistently. Nightcloud would chide Crowfeather for his lack of faith in his son as a warrior, and then later in CT she would counter his harsh words and call him out for being a crappy father. Honestly, I think it's something that not even Crowfeather was aware of himself until CT, when it came to how he spoke toward Breezepelt.
Additionally, when both Crowfeather and Breezepaw were in an environment, a situation where it was just him and Crowfeather, while Nightcloud stayed behind, he still was harsh on his son and neglectful. During the trip to the mountain, Breezepaw was sent with Crowfeather so they could at least have time to bond better, and Nightcloud was obviously fine with this otherwise she would have opposed it from the start. During the three's POV, they continuously noted how harsh Crowfeather was toward Breezepaw, and ironically noted how glad they were that Crowfeather wasn't their father. Breezepaw very much kept trying to get on his father's good side, bending over backwards for his attention and approval, only to be harshly scolded by him through out the trip. The fact that he outright ignored Breezepaw, ironically, in favor of Lionpaw, makes it even worse, because it was shown to obviously hurt Breezepaw and his mentality. It was also noted that while Crowfeather was obsessed with Feathertail and visiting her grave, Breezepaw was watching from a distances, and listening to what others were saying about his father. Like how he was in love with Feathertail, and quite obviously still was.
It is because of Crowfeather's neglect that Breezepaw grew up believing his father didn't love him. There was an obvious strain in their relationship, the fact that even cats outside of their family were even aware of it, and even someone like Onestar of all people was telling Crowfeather to get it together, says enough. Crowfeather, in CT especially, was aware of his lack of presence in his son's life, and didn't realize just how good of a cat he could have been if he was a better father figure to him. He also realizes just how good he could have had it with Nightcloud, and acknowledges to never treating her like how Pickle could have, and how a mate is supposed to in general.
Nightcloud may not be a perfect mother, but she was still a mother to Breezepaw, and raised him for the most part on her own, as opposed to Crowfeather, who was only there physically but neglected his son and mate emotionally. He even at one point only put the blame on Nightcloud, but in CT realizes that he was more to blame and that he should have done a better job as a mate and father, but he was too caught up in his bitterness over losing Feather and Leaf.
Also, no where in the books does it show that Nightcloud encouraged any murderous behavior. The ones that actually did it was the Dark Forest, and Breezepelt's reasoning for joining them had NOTHING to do with his relationship with Nightcloud. Breezepelt joined the Dark Forest after the gathering secret was revealed, not before. It is because at this point he believed that his father actually loved his TC children more (and considering how he favored Lion over him in the mountains he has no reason to believe otherwise), AND because according to the code his half siblings shouldn't even exists. He also blames his father for the reasons why his family was always gossiped about, and why he was treated like an outcasts. This is why his targets were Crowfeahter(Neglecting him and breaking the code), Leafpool(making Crowfeather break the code), Hollyleaf(existing), Jayfeather(existing) and Lionblaze(existing, and being his long term rival).
There is an entire scene where the Dark Forest are shown, circling and encouraging murderous behavior, and trying to make Breezepelt believe that what he was doing was right. They told him that he had to get his revenge, not because or for Nightcloud, but because of his father and how he was treated by him. Even when Breezepelt attacked Jayfeather, it was because he wanted Jayfeather to feel the same way he did, and Brokenstar himself was encouraging him to do it. Later when Breezepelt confront Lionblaze, he reveals he didn't care about the DF's goal, only that they helped made him stronger and gave him the opportunity to get his revenge.
Prior to the gathering, there is NO evidence that Nightcloud shunned Crowfeather for speaking to Leafpool, and neither is there evidence that Nightcloud was shit talking Crowfeather to Breezepelt. The only times the latter was even brought up was in an guide book filled with inconsistencies, and Crowfeather pushing the blame of Breezepelt's behavior onto his mate, which is scummy on it's own, and showing his lack of responsibility in general. Crowfeather has very much admitted to his lack of presence in both Nightcloud and Breezepelt's lives, as a mate and father, already in CT, so everything I already said was already confirmed via the actual canon books and straight from the horse's mouth.
Nightcloud and Breezepelt are both victims, you can be a victims even if you aren't a good person. Nightcloud is not a victim. The only victim in their horrible situation is Breezepelt. Both Crowfeather and Nightcloud made the choice to get together despite not loving each other at all, which they shouldn’t have done at all. Crowfeather did so to prove loyalty to his Clan and Nightcloud did because she was older and afraid she would never have kits. In this way, they both used each other. Breezepelt was born into this horrible situation, with his parents not liking each other and bickering. Nightcloud was clearly possessive of Breezepelt while Crowfeather was distant and scolding. Nightcloud is bitter, snappy, and possessive, and that is shown throughout her appearances. She barely even lets Crowfeather talk to Leafpool or his kits with her without Nightcloud making a snarky comment. She hates CrowLeaf’s kits just because they’re CrowLeaf’s, even believing that Jayfeather let Flametail drown. She loves Breezepelt with her whole heart, sure, but she is possessive to a point where it’s negatively impacting Breezepelt. Crowfeather says that Nightcloud encouraged Breezepelt to hate him in TLH after stopping him from killing Lionblaze, which we have no evidence to show that it’s not true as we don’t have much screentime with just Night and Breeze together. I think without his parents bickering all the time and Nightcloud’s “encouragement,” Breezepelt would not be AS bad as he was in OOTS. Crowfeather’s neglect wasn’t the only factor. Both of Crowfeather and Nightcloud were horrible mates and parents. Yes, Nightcloud was a better parent than Crowfeather. But was she a good parent? No. Growing old and wanting a family =/= using someone. I feel like people forget that it's natural to have woes of thinking about growing old, and desiring a spouse and children. Nightcloud wanted a family of her own, because of her age, and thought Crowfeather wanted the same, hence why she was very affectionate and loving to him at first. This is also why she said that "perhaps" they may have never loved one another. To say perhaps means to express uncertainty and the possibility of something, and that is what Nightcloud thought by the end. Even though she expressed interest in Crowfeather, when it came to a relationship, her realizing that maybe it wasn't something romantic, or never was, is something she realizes later on. She already made it clear she wanted their family to work and tried to keep it together, and she had enough interest in Crowfeather to possibly think it was romantic on her end, but realizes that maybe it never really was. The possibility was still there period, but on Crowfeather's end, the writers made it clear it never was, especially after Feather and Leaf. Nightcloud was having a "mid-life crisis" which is so normal it's not even funny. Her fearing that she'd never experience a relationship, having kits, being a mate and mother, is normal, especially for someone her age. It doesn't mean she was using Crowfeather, and I'm honestly tired of people thinking that a mate can't want kits in a relationship, or it's horrible of them to want to be loved by the equivalent of their spouse. Crowfeather had no business talking to Leafpool about his children considering she's from ThunderClan, they both broke the code, and he declared that he only had one family, which is the one he had in WindClan. Him claiming that to Night and Breeze's face, then turning around and doing the opposite of those claims, is reason enough for his WC family, and WindClan in general, to be angry at his betrayal and breaking the code. Nightcloud has no reason to also care for Crowfeather's TC children, they're not hers, and she's not obligated to like them, especially because they're from TC anyways. However, prior to the reveal at the gathering she was very much on okay terms with them. She cared for both Lion and Breeze when they were hurt, comforting them and chiding Breeze for being ungrateful toward Lion. And also was thankful to Jay and Leaf for helping Breeze after the incident as well. Her hostility of any of them came AFTER the gathering, especially toward Hollyleaf who was the one that caused the gathering scene in the first place. There is no evidence that Nightcloud's parenting is what led to Breezepelt's behavior in AVoS, especially when the books themselves blatantly show the DF cats influencing Breezepelt's actions along with Crowfeather admissions in CT. And almost EVERY cat outside of TC believed that Flametail was drowned by Jayfeather, what reason did Nightcloud have to not believe the same? To particularly single her out over that incident is nonsensical. Also, never said that Nightcloud was the best parent, but she will always be the better parent, despite the circumstances, when it comes to her vs Crowfeather. Nightcloud wasn't possessive of her son either, to be possessive of something is to demand their total attention and love, which wasn't the case at all, it feels like you're misusing this word when it comes to Night and Breeze's relationships. She was overprotective of Breezepelt, not possessive, because she would attempt to shield him from Crowfeather's harsh criticism constantly, and also worried about his physical safety because of her already losing two of her kits. You can claim that Nightcloud was possessive AFTER the gathering reveal, sure, but only toward Crowfeather because he was showing more attention to Leaf and his TC kits despite claiming only to care and acknowledge his WC family, which was just him lying through his teeth. My point still stands, imo Nightcloud is still a victim, and Crowfeather already apologized for his neglect of their relationship and not treating her like a mate should have. Wanting to have a family will never be as bad as using someone for loyalty points just to look good in the eyes of your clan, especially if you're going to use your son as well.
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Post by downfalls on Jul 3, 2021 19:45:44 GMT -5
Slight dislike. I find him to be extremely boring, and his SE really made it worse.
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Post by Mothdapple on Jul 3, 2021 20:24:52 GMT -5
Nightcloud is not a victim. The only victim in their horrible situation is Breezepelt. Both Crowfeather and Nightcloud made the choice to get together despite not loving each other at all, which they shouldn’t have done at all. Crowfeather did so to prove loyalty to his Clan and Nightcloud did because she was older and afraid she would never have kits. In this way, they both used each other. Breezepelt was born into this horrible situation, with his parents not liking each other and bickering. Nightcloud was clearly possessive of Breezepelt while Crowfeather was distant and scolding. Nightcloud is bitter, snappy, and possessive, and that is shown throughout her appearances. She barely even lets Crowfeather talk to Leafpool or his kits with her without Nightcloud making a snarky comment. She hates CrowLeaf’s kits just because they’re CrowLeaf’s, even believing that Jayfeather let Flametail drown. She loves Breezepelt with her whole heart, sure, but she is possessive to a point where it’s negatively impacting Breezepelt. Crowfeather says that Nightcloud encouraged Breezepelt to hate him in TLH after stopping him from killing Lionblaze, which we have no evidence to show that it’s not true as we don’t have much screentime with just Night and Breeze together. I think without his parents bickering all the time and Nightcloud’s “encouragement,” Breezepelt would not be AS bad as he was in OOTS. Crowfeather’s neglect wasn’t the only factor. Both of Crowfeather and Nightcloud were horrible mates and parents. Yes, Nightcloud was a better parent than Crowfeather. But was she a good parent? No. Growing old and wanting a family =/= using someone. I feel like people forget that it's natural to have woes of thinking about growing old, and desiring a spouse and children. Nightcloud wanted a family of her own, because of her age, and thought Crowfeather wanted the same, hence why she was very affectionate and loving to him at first. This is also why she said that "perhaps" they may have never loved one another. To say perhaps means to express uncertainty and the possibility of something, and that is what Nightcloud thought by the end. Even though she expressed interest in Crowfeather, when it came to a relationship, her realizing that maybe it wasn't something romantic, or never was, is something she realizes later on. She already made it clear she wanted their family to work and tried to keep it together, and she had enough interest in Crowfeather to possibly think it was romantic on her end, but realizes that maybe it never really was. The possibility was still there period, but on Crowfeather's end, the writers made it clear it never was, especially after Feather and Leaf. Nightcloud was having a "mid-life crisis" which is so normal it's not even funny. Her fearing that she'd never experience a relationship, having kits, being a mate and mother, is normal, especially for someone her age. It doesn't mean she was using Crowfeather, and I'm honestly tired of people thinking that a mate can't want kits in a relationship, or it's horrible of them to want to be loved by the equivalent of their spouse. Crowfeather had no business talking to Leafpool about his children considering she's from ThunderClan, they both broke the code, and he declared that he only had one family, which is the one he had in WindClan. Him claiming that to Night and Breeze's face, then turning around and doing the opposite of those claims, is reason enough for his WC family, and WindClan in general, to be angry at his betrayal and breaking the code. Nightcloud has no reason to also care for Crowfeather's TC children, they're not hers, and she's not obligated to like them, especially because they're from TC anyways. However, prior to the reveal at the gathering she was very much on okay terms with them. She cared for both Lion and Breeze when they were hurt, comforting them and chiding Breeze for being ungrateful toward Lion. And also was thankful to Jay and Leaf for helping Breeze after the incident as well. Her hostility of any of them came AFTER the gathering, especially toward Hollyleaf who was the one that caused the gathering scene in the first place. There is no evidence that Nightcloud's parenting is what led to Breezepelt's behavior in AVoS, especially when the books themselves blatantly show the DF cats influencing Breezepelt's actions along with Crowfeather admissions in CT. And almost EVERY cat outside of TC believed that Flametail was drowned by Jayfeather, what reason did Nightcloud have to not believe the same? To particularly single her out over that incident is nonsensical. Also, never said that Nightcloud was the best parent, but she will always be the better parent, despite the circumstances, when it comes to her vs Crowfeather. Nightcloud wasn't possessive of her son either, to be possessive of something is to demand their total attention and love, which wasn't the case at all, it feels like you're misusing this word when it comes to Night and Breeze's relationships. She was overprotective of Breezepelt, not possessive, because she would attempt to shield him from Crowfeather's harsh criticism constantly, and also worried about his physical safety because of her already losing two of her kits. You can claim that Nightcloud was possessive AFTER the gathering reveal, sure, but only toward Crowfeather because he was showing more attention to Leaf and his TC kits despite claiming only to care and acknowledge his WC family, which was just him lying through his teeth. My point still stands, imo Nightcloud is still a victim, and Crowfeather already apologized for his neglect of their relationship and not treating her like a mate should have. Wanting to have a family will never be as bad as using someone for loyalty points just to look good in the eyes of your clan, especially if you're going to use your son as well. But did Nightcloud really love Crowfeather? No. That’s a horrible situation to be in. Getting in a relationship simply because you want offspring instead of the fact that you truly love that person is horrible and as for Nightcloud, it had consequences. Nightcloud doesn’t have the best personalitity for this either. Both Crow and Night are shown to be short-tempered, which creates a horrible environment for each other and their son. I’m not saying that wanting to grow old and have children with someone is using them. That is far from what I’m saying. I’m saying that since Nightcloud only got with Crowfeather because she wanted kits, not that she liked him at all at first, that’s kind of using them for that purpose. Yes, it’s normal to fear you won’t find love or have children, but it’s not right to force yourself into a relationship with someone just because of that fear. I say we just agree to disagree here.
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Post by Aqua on Jul 3, 2021 20:28:03 GMT -5
He's okay, but the fandom kind of ruined him for me because of how they say "Everything is Crowfeather's fault!!11111!!!!!111111!" Can't even talk about him without someone constantly blaming him for something, it's kind of annoying. It feels like I can't say anything positive about him without someone debating or reminding me about how bad he was to Breezepelt. Now I just don't care for him. Yeah. I hate how the fandom started to demonize him, even calling him an abusive mate to Nightcloud, which is not true. I also hate that people make it seem like Nightcloud is some victim due to Crowfeather’s actions and feels betrayed by the fact that he loves Feathertail/Leafpool more. Heck, Nightcloud never particularly liked Crowfeather herself for goodness sake. They both used each other, which ended up horribly, especially for their son Breezepelt. Well, Crowfeather used Nightcloud for his reputation and ignored her, but I'm not sure "abusive" is even the right word for his situation. An asshole? Absolutely, but I really feel like they're stretching it with Nightcloud. However, Crowfeather neglected Breezepelt, which is considered "abuse". Honestly, Breezepelt is the real victim here. Nightcloud isn't really any better for some situations.
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Post by MadameDelune on Jul 3, 2021 20:50:42 GMT -5
By far one of my most hated cats. He sucks dude like what a horrible, horrible “father” like you don’t deserve a SE
He reminds me of Rainflower tbh
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 3, 2021 22:35:20 GMT -5
Growing old and wanting a family =/= using someone. I feel like people forget that it's natural to have woes of thinking about growing old, and desiring a spouse and children. Nightcloud wanted a family of her own, because of her age, and thought Crowfeather wanted the same, hence why she was very affectionate and loving to him at first. This is also why she said that "perhaps" they may have never loved one another. To say perhaps means to express uncertainty and the possibility of something, and that is what Nightcloud thought by the end. Even though she expressed interest in Crowfeather, when it came to a relationship, her realizing that maybe it wasn't something romantic, or never was, is something she realizes later on. She already made it clear she wanted their family to work and tried to keep it together, and she had enough interest in Crowfeather to possibly think it was romantic on her end, but realizes that maybe it never really was. The possibility was still there period, but on Crowfeather's end, the writers made it clear it never was, especially after Feather and Leaf.
Nightcloud was having a "mid-life crisis" which is so normal it's not even funny. Her fearing that she'd never experience a relationship, having kits, being a mate and mother, is normal, especially for someone her age. It doesn't mean she was using Crowfeather, and I'm honestly tired of people thinking that a mate can't want kits in a relationship, or it's horrible of them to want to be loved by the equivalent of their spouse.
Crowfeather had no business talking to Leafpool about his children considering she's from ThunderClan, they both broke the code, and he declared that he only had one family, which is the one he had in WindClan. Him claiming that to Night and Breeze's face, then turning around and doing the opposite of those claims, is reason enough for his WC family, and WindClan in general, to be angry at his betrayal and breaking the code. Nightcloud has no reason to also care for Crowfeather's TC children, they're not hers, and she's not obligated to like them, especially because they're from TC anyways. However, prior to the reveal at the gathering she was very much on okay terms with them. She cared for both Lion and Breeze when they were hurt, comforting them and chiding Breeze for being ungrateful toward Lion. And also was thankful to Jay and Leaf for helping Breeze after the incident as well. Her hostility of any of them came AFTER the gathering, especially toward Hollyleaf who was the one that caused the gathering scene in the first place.
There is no evidence that Nightcloud's parenting is what led to Breezepelt's behavior in AVoS, especially when the books themselves blatantly show the DF cats influencing Breezepelt's actions along with Crowfeather admissions in CT.
And almost EVERY cat outside of TC believed that Flametail was drowned by Jayfeather, what reason did Nightcloud have to not believe the same? To particularly single her out over that incident is nonsensical.
Also, never said that Nightcloud was the best parent, but she will always be the better parent, despite the circumstances, when it comes to her vs Crowfeather. Nightcloud wasn't possessive of her son either, to be possessive of something is to demand their total attention and love, which wasn't the case at all, it feels like you're misusing this word when it comes to Night and Breeze's relationships. She was overprotective of Breezepelt, not possessive, because she would attempt to shield him from Crowfeather's harsh criticism constantly, and also worried about his physical safety because of her already losing two of her kits. You can claim that Nightcloud was possessive AFTER the gathering reveal, sure, but only toward Crowfeather because he was showing more attention to Leaf and his TC kits despite claiming only to care and acknowledge his WC family, which was just him lying through his teeth.
My point still stands, imo Nightcloud is still a victim, and Crowfeather already apologized for his neglect of their relationship and not treating her like a mate should have. Wanting to have a family will never be as bad as using someone for loyalty points just to look good in the eyes of your clan, especially if you're going to use your son as well. But did Nightcloud really love Crowfeather? No. That’s a horrible situation to be in. Getting in a relationship simply because you want offspring instead of the fact that you truly love that person is horrible and as for Nightcloud, it had consequences. Nightcloud doesn’t have the best personalitity for this either. Both Crow and Night are shown to be short-tempered, which creates a horrible environment for each other and their son. I’m not saying that wanting to grow old and have children with someone is using them. That is far from what I’m saying. I’m saying that since Nightcloud only got with Crowfeather because she wanted kits, not that she liked him at all at first, that’s kind of using them for that purpose. Yes, it’s normal to fear you won’t find love or have children, but it’s not right to force yourself into a relationship with someone just because of that fear. I say we just agree to disagree here. Going into a relationship and wanting to hopefully have a loving family out of it isn't a horrible. Nightcloud being hopeful that Crowfeather and her could work out, and possibly being romantic and raising a child out of love, is also not horrible either. The situation became horrible when Nightcloud realizes that she never had a chance from the start, and that Crowfeather was always thinking of two other she-cats over her, neglecting her as his mate, and in turn also neglecting the son that had together. That is a horrible situation. Love isn't as simple as claiming to fall for another person and desiring to be lovey dovey with them, sometimes a relationship can even happen out of circumstances. Which is quite literally how FeatherCrow and LeafCrow even became a thing, because under normal circumstances, they wouldn't even have gotten to know one another as they did. Also Nightcloud's personality doesn't have anything to do with her being a good mate or not, because prior to the gathering she very much was shown to be a good mate, just that Crowfeather was too busy thinking about Feather and Leaf to bother to care about her or Breezepelt. He even acknowledges just how good of a mate and mother she is, and they could have been a thing if he had actually loved her, but he didn't. If Nightcloud only wanted kits out of Crowfeather, nothing was stopping her from leaving him the moment she had kits with him, or even after the secret got out, she would have no reason to want to stay with him as his mate, or even be loving towards him, let alone trying to encourage him to bond with his son like he should as a father. If all she actually desired was to have just kits, she wouldn't have wasted her time and put so much effort into trying to make their family work, and being jealous and upset whenever Crowfeather was around another woman. Her being jealous was proof enough that she was hurt by Crowfeather's unfaithfulness to their relationship, and finding out the truth only made things worse between all three. And considering she literally admitted that what she wanted and desired from a relationship is to be loved and appreciated, like Pickle did for her, shows that she very much did want to be in a loving relationship with a mate. However she found out later that Crowfeather could never give her that, hence why she acknowledges it when he asks her to be mates again. And Nightcloud, for all we knew, could have easily have been the type of person who doesn't experience romantic attraction unless they know that the other person is romantically attracted to them first, and since Crowfeather approached her, I wouldn't be surprised that she was under that impression. Like I said, not all relationships are as simple as you like me and I like you, lets be a thing. We can agree to disagree, but as far as I'm concerned, Crowfeather was already horrible neglectful mate and father prior to the gathering regardless of how Nightcloud and Breezepelt ended up after it.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 3, 2021 22:41:52 GMT -5
Yeah. I hate how the fandom started to demonize him, even calling him an abusive mate to Nightcloud, which is not true. I also hate that people make it seem like Nightcloud is some victim due to Crowfeather’s actions and feels betrayed by the fact that he loves Feathertail/Leafpool more. Heck, Nightcloud never particularly liked Crowfeather herself for goodness sake. They both used each other, which ended up horribly, especially for their son Breezepelt. Well, Crowfeather used Nightcloud for his reputation and ignored her, but I'm not sure "abusive" is even the right word for his situation. An asshole? Absolutely, but I really feel like they're stretching it with Nightcloud. However, Crowfeather neglected Breezepelt, which is considered "abuse". Honestly, Breezepelt is the real victim here. Nightcloud isn't really any better for some situations. Neglecting your spouse is a form of abuse, it's just that in many cases neglecting your child, whom relies on you as a parent, is worse. The severities are different is all, but one can have different perspectives on how they see it.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jul 4, 2021 10:37:33 GMT -5
I like Crowfeather (alongside his family in WindClan). He's a complex character with complicated relationship dynamics and compelling issues of his own. His behaviour towards both Nightcloud and Breezepelt during PoT and OotS was that of a complete asshat though.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 4, 2021 11:24:58 GMT -5
He's okay, but the fandom kind of ruined him for me because of how they say "Everything is Crowfeather's fault!!11111!!!!!111111!" Can't even talk about him without someone constantly blaming him for something, it's kind of annoying. It feels like I can't say anything positive about him without someone debating or reminding me about how bad he was to Breezepelt. Now I just don't care for him. Yeah. I hate how the fandom started to demonize him, even calling him an abusive mate to Nightcloud, which is not true. I also hate that people make it seem like Nightcloud is some victim due to Crowfeather’s actions and feels betrayed by the fact that he loves Feathertail/Leafpool more. Heck, Nightcloud never particularly liked Crowfeather herself for goodness sake. They both used each other, which ended up horribly, especially for their son Breezepelt. Exactly. Crowfeather maybe could have been emotionally abusive to Nightcloud, wich i understand, but PHYSICALLY abusive like some fans claim? No. He's not physically abusive. This is why i find ships such as Night x Leaf x Feather and Nightcloud x Mapleshade to be disgusting, they were only done out of spite.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 4, 2021 12:17:39 GMT -5
Yeah. I hate how the fandom started to demonize him, even calling him an abusive mate to Nightcloud, which is not true. I also hate that people make it seem like Nightcloud is some victim due to Crowfeather’s actions and feels betrayed by the fact that he loves Feathertail/Leafpool more. Heck, Nightcloud never particularly liked Crowfeather herself for goodness sake. They both used each other, which ended up horribly, especially for their son Breezepelt. Exactly. Crowfeather maybe could have been emotionally abusive to Nightcloud, wich i understand, but PHYSICALLY abusive like some fans claim? No. He's not physically abusive. This is why i find ships such as Night x Leaf x Feather and Nightcloud x Mapleshade to be disgusting, they were only done out of spite. Ehh, I can see what you mean. Even though I like Nightcloud, I do agree, I'm not a fan of spite shipping of any kind. I'm the same way with Squirrelflight, Dovewing and Mapleshade. I'm not against flf ships by any means, but when it's done out of spite, it feels pretty distasteful. Even if we do regard Nightcloud as being possibly canonly bi/pan, I doubt she would get with Leaf or Feather of all people, it never made sense to me, even more so with Mapleshade. Like it's harmless shipping at the end of the day, but I always found it weird that people think flf ships solve everything, and seeing something like FreckleMaple or ReedMaple is just...super uncomfy for me personally.
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