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Post by vectoring34 on Jun 29, 2021 10:17:41 GMT -5
As someone who has dealt with an incel who threatened to hurt a lot of people just because they were rejected - yes, this happens, quite often. And in their mind, they have a right to do so. Seeing so many people denying this is baffling. I don't mean to speak for most of ppl who're against Ashfur, but I doubt that most of us just dislike this arc because "ew, evil incel". I'm well aware how unpredictable someone like Ashfur can be in reality, and I'm sure many others are too. My issue isnt Ashfur is an incel My issue isnt that he wants to hurt other people because of his rejection rant below It's the way he this is executed. After the dust settled on his arc, he's suddenly dredged up from nowhere with the ability to control different dimensions. Not even Mapleshade or Tigerstar01 have achieved this, and Mapleshade was easily more unhinged and obsessive than Ashfur, as she successfully killed three cats and attempted to kill a a queen, too, before harrasing the entirety of ThunderClan for several generations. Tigerstar spent like three generations trying to get someone to kill Firestar, I guess Ashfur was just smarter than the entirety of Dark Forest and more determined, too.
Even in the flashback with Graystripe, he's shown as this enraged rabid animal who's so obviously evil, which isn't like Ashfur at all. And no, Ashfur showing his distaste for kittypets is not the same as showing obvious "I'm the Big Bad" tones that the Erins slap on every villain. If hating kittypets means he always showed evilness, than this would justify 80% of ThunderClan suddenly being shown as evil, like Dustpelt, Longtail... etc
The series literally hammers in how powerless StarClan is, and how they can only give cats their lives, especially in OotS, where StarClan was literally falling apart. But with the recent books, we have Gray Wing showing the future, and the worst offender: Ashfur literally cutting off StarClan's connection, possessing other cats, and forming a ghost cat army... what???
I would enjoy this if it there was more reason to this, regardless of whether he was a crazy incel or not. He could've returned in the arc before, attempting to pull a Sol on the Clans behind StarClan's back. Something that makes more sense than just randomly giving him god-like powers. Again, Cinderpelt set the precedent that Starclan cats CAN control someone and worm themselves into their soul. We also know that Starclan cats can send down horrible weather too. The reason Starclan was weak in OOTS was because they were divided among themselves, their actual power easily was greater than the Dark Forest once they unified even when the Dark Forest was at its zenith. Simply put, Ashfur is stronger than Mapleshade or Tigerstar because he is inherently so as a Starclan cat, who is vested with divine power while the Dark Forest cats are actually rotting away. The flashback with Graystripe doesn't show him as being that evil. All it shows him as is stubborn and wanting hismentor to be leader, that's it.
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Post by Aqua on Jun 29, 2021 11:00:47 GMT -5
In Darkness Within it is strongly suggested that Ashfur knows hurting all the Clans will hurt Squirrelflight the most, and his main target is Squirrelflight, so that is probably why…So it’s understandable thats too vague. literally any cat would be hurt by that so why doesnt he just stick to things specifically about squirrelflight? slander he name, make the clans all hate her, set her up to look bad, hurt and kill only cats she truly loves. the "whole clan society" is too vague and doesnt truly fit to ashfur alone. Adding onto this, going after Squirrelflight's family was his original plan on the first place. Ashfur really didn't care about anything else at the time. He wanted to hurt the Three and Firestar, her leader. If he lived I bet he would have gone after Leafpool too, since he accused her of lying. I also don't recall Squirrelflight ever caring about the other Clans that much, either, besides the obvious. It's why I have a hard time believing that him hurting the other Clans would supposedly be hurtful to her. The books never hinted that she cared about others outside of ThunderClan. It would make more sense if Ashfur went after JUST ThunderClan instead of the others. Plus the storyline on its own of "Ashfur is angry because Squirrelflight didn't want to be with him, so now he's after all the clans in revenge to hurt Squirrelflight" is very weak, overused, and boring, even if it IS "realistic".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 13:06:45 GMT -5
I just want to know how and where he got these OP powers??
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 29, 2021 15:08:32 GMT -5
thats too vague. literally any cat would be hurt by that so why doesnt he just stick to things specifically about squirrelflight? slander he name, make the clans all hate her, set her up to look bad, hurt and kill only cats she truly loves. the "whole clan society" is too vague and doesnt truly fit to ashfur alone. Adding onto this, going after Squirrelflight's family was his original plan on the first place. Ashfur really didn't care about anything else at the time. He wanted to hurt the Three and Firestar, her leader. If he lived I bet he would have gone after Leafpool too, since he accused her of lying. I also don't recall Squirrelflight ever caring about the other Clans that much, either, besides the obvious. It's why I have a hard time believing that him hurting the other Clans would supposedly be hurtful to her. The books never hinted that she cared about others outside of ThunderClan. It would make more sense if Ashfur went after JUST ThunderClan instead of the others. Plus the storyline on its own of "Ashfur is angry because Squirrelflight didn't want to be with him, so now he's after all the clans in revenge to hurt Squirrelflight" is very weak, overused, and boring, even if it IS "realistic". ashfur doesnt care about the code, clan relations, or anything like that. he only cared about the interpersonal angle. he cared about the relations squirrelflight had so he could use those against her. thats what he's always done. he focused on the small because his target was small (squirrelflight ONLY). this is why im still fighting against TBC as a whole and ashfur being the imposter (which i still hate with all my might). i hate TBC because none of it makes sense to me and im just tired of people everywhere saying TBC and ashfur imposter is the best thing ever when it isnt (TO ME).
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Cloudy Sky
*briefly emerges from under my massive pile of schoolwork* I LIVE
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Post by Cloudy Sky on Jun 30, 2021 0:41:26 GMT -5
I just want to know how and where he got these OP powers?? Same. Hopefully we'll know in ALITM. If they come up with a good explanation then I'll be satisfied.
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Post by αɳσɱαʅყ on Jun 30, 2021 7:20:37 GMT -5
Hate him as a cat, but love him as a character. (Essay below lol) Bringing him back in TBC is, in my opinion, one of the better writing decisions they've made. His story just didn't feel complete with a half-assed excuse for his entrance into StarClan with nothing but a slap on the wrist (if even that), Vicky taking pity on him despite his association with killing Firestar/trying to kill Squirrelflight's kids, and intending to ruin her life because she told him no. Them taking this problem and then making Ashfur into the main villain while also addressing the flaws of the warrior code and the Clans' blind faith in StarClan is excellent.
Might I also mention that the arc is called The Broken Code. Who better as a villain than someone who once upheld the code, only to start abusing it for their own selfish gains? He also pretty clearly sees himself as above if not actually resentful of Clan culture and society. As for his powers, everything's got to be discovered by someone at some point. Ashfur is likely the only cat actually twisted enough to go out and find it. The imposter being him makes the most sense over any other cat, to me.
Also, Ashfur's motivation here might just be getting rejected, and while it may seem minor, there's also been cases of this with other villains? Sol for example got kicked out of SkyClan and decided to try and get revenge on all the Clans because he couldn't be a warrior. Even though it was SkyClan (more specifically, Leafstar) who did that to him. Both of these cats are taking out their misgivings on the Clans despite only one cat doing it to them, yet Ashfur's the only one who gets vocal attraction regarding it.
He's still in character during TBC as well. He's clearly still obsessed with Squirrelflight despite all the years that passed. Him not moving on from it isn't even retconning established lore. Flametail wasn't able to get over Jayfeather not saving him. Yellowfang couldn't look past her hatred of Brokenstar in OotS, and in Blackfoot's novella, Stonefur and Rosetail clearly hated Blackfoot. Why shouldn't the same be said for Ashfur? His "love" for Squirrelflight is so strong it transcends the afterlife, which, to me, is pretty terrifying in of itself.
His personality is consistent with previous books. Ashfur didn't have much of a personality in TPB (aside from his xenophobia) outside of "loyal apprentice". Leafpool even mentions that Ashfur was always outspoken in Sunrise, so he seems completely in character during Graystripe's Vow, being the argumentative little shit he was. His xenophobia is present throughout TNP (I believe he makes a few offhanded comments about kittypet blood that offends Squirrelflight and Cloudtail), and TBC where he pretty clearly has a dislike of Rootspring's mixed heritage and even condemns Violetshine for taking a non-Clan mate. He discriminates against Squirrelflight's children (like seriously, it was pretty obvious he had a special hatred for Lionblaze, Jayfeather, Alderheart, Sparkpelt, and shows an obvious disdain of Bramblestar). He tries to emotionally control and guilt/manipulate Squirrelflight too, like he did in TNP. He's still an opportunist and clearly didn't plan out this whole "destroy the Clans" goal. Heck, he himself says that all he did was take advantage of an opportunity.
Sure, his ultimate goal of being with Squirrelflight isn't as ambitious as, say, Tigerstar or maybe Darktail, but his one-track mind and obsession with her is what makes him an actual terrifying threat and is also what differentiates him from other antagonists. He has one goal and is clearly willing to do anything, no matter how underhanded and dirty, to get it. Ashfur's arguably the most realistic villain in the series. Yes, all the villains are realistic to an extent, but when was the last time you met someone like Tigerstar, Scourge, or Brokenstar? With someone like Ashfur, chances are you've met a bitter incel at least once. Heck, you might have even had the misfortune of being in a relationship with one. It really isn't too much of a leap for Ashfur to target Squirrelflight's family and then later the Clans out of nothing but petty retaliation, because that's a trait that real-life incels have. His powers? Yes, those are rather unrealistic, but his motivations and actions on the other hand are absolutely not.
I didn't find him that compelling in PoT, but that's changed in this current arc. In TBC he may be a selfish, abusive (not only to just Squirrelflight. Shadowsight, and most if not all of ThunderClan are victims), manipulative, xenophobic, and an all around absolutely horrible cat, but he is an absolute delight to read and definitely one of, if not the, most entertaining villain we've gotten. He's an excellent mix of narcissistic sociopath and entitled incel, with some demonic powers sprinkled in. His characterization is very strong, and I'm all for it. His descent from a generally good natured warrior to the monster he is now is great and easily one of his best aspects. This gave me a few interesting ideas to chew on. I like this mini-essay. I think in TNP there was some hints of Ashfur being a selfish manipulator, with how he tried to stir trouble for Leafpool by questioning her medicine cat vision that Brambleclaw should be deputy and the way he conspired with Hawkfrost to kill Firestar, his own leader, just to enact petty revenge. Like, this is the exact same crime Tigerclaw attempted on Bluestar that got him exiled. The only difference is that Tigerclaw had grander ambitions. I don't think TBC Ashfur is that OOC, if TNP Ashfur was willing to kill his own leader, a crime that he could have been exiled for! If anything, the fact that he was put into StarClan for "loving too much" was a terrible decision and excuse, so his role in TBC switches up him being let off the hook to a more interesting villain with a StarClan background. His motivations are solid as well, it's a fiction universe for children and he represents a greedy obsession which is an archetypical villain trait. But even with that, his motivations hit even more real than prior villains, who were cartoonish "lust for power/world domination" types. He does mirror some incels' actions, who are considered a terrorist threat in some countries may I add. But who Ashfur reminds me most of is Ricardo Lopez. Feel free to look him up, (TW for attempted murder and suicide), but tldr is he was a person who grew obsessed with the singer Bjork and attempted to kill her because he wanted to enact revenge on her for dating (to punish her for not paying attention to him... sound familiar?). He was so intent on his revenge, that he filmed his own suicide shortly after because he didn't want the police to find him. And, he had a fairly normal background and "easygoing personality" that his family didn't even suspect he harboured violent intentions. The motivation, the obsession, the anger from this real person all mirrors Ashfur. I think of all the Warriors villains, Ashfur hits harder because even if he has a one-track mind, it's more real, there are people out there like him. As for the point about Ashfur's powers not being part of the initial worldbuilding, I don't really mind it. The writers for this series has demonstrated time and time again that they don't focus on the finer details of worldbuilding-- they forget cat's names, retcon a bunch of stuff to make it fit the plot better, bring dead cats back to life on accident, etc. If they don't make it a focal point, I'm not going to pay attention to it. The fact that Ashfur is our first StarClan villain is enough explanation to me, StarClan cats may get different powers than a Dark Forest cat. Also, Warriors isn't exactly "high art" like Lord of the Rings is, so I don't really expect that much from this series. Just enjoying the moments they do something interesting.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jun 30, 2021 8:31:21 GMT -5
I just want to know how and where he got these OP powers?? This tbh. Because to me it’s not even really Ashfur as a character much anymore, it’s a weird god power they slapped on a random cat solely to give Squirrelflight drama. Had there been better world building and explanation as to how Ashfur got these insane abilities, I’d like it way more. But they just suddenly appear? No build up as to how or why a cat could do all this? It seems lazy to me.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Jun 30, 2021 17:09:14 GMT -5
That's what I was wondering for a while. How the heck did Ashfur get powers to control the dead and remove connection with StarClan? At the moment, I'm convinced that it's only for plot convenience. He'd have been a better villain in OOTS instead of the battle between the living, StarClan, and the Dark Forest.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 30, 2021 17:19:49 GMT -5
That's what I was wondering for a while. How the heck did Ashfur get powers to control the dead and remove connection with StarClan? At the moment, I'm convinced that it's only for plot convenience. He'd have been a better villain in OOTS instead of the battle between the living, StarClan, and the Dark Forest. i agree. if they had ashfur show up from starclan like "i still have unfinished business squirrelflight." and they could have had squirrelflight kill his spirit right then and there, and be done with it...but no. we waited the whole of AVOS and 2 SE's and ashfur shows up being OP with no explanation, and they're waiting til the LAST BOOK to make up an excuse as to why and how ashfur of all lame cats deserves all this OP power...
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Post by Hollyfall on Jun 30, 2021 19:24:15 GMT -5
Hate him as a cat, but love him as a character. (Essay below lol) Bringing him back in TBC is, in my opinion, one of the better writing decisions they've made. His story just didn't feel complete with a half-assed excuse for his entrance into StarClan with nothing but a slap on the wrist (if even that), Vicky taking pity on him despite his association with killing Firestar/trying to kill Squirrelflight's kids, and intending to ruin her life because she told him no. Them taking this problem and then making Ashfur into the main villain while also addressing the flaws of the warrior code and the Clans' blind faith in StarClan is excellent.
Might I also mention that the arc is called The Broken Code. Who better as a villain than someone who once upheld the code, only to start abusing it for their own selfish gains? He also pretty clearly sees himself as above if not actually resentful of Clan culture and society. As for his powers, everything's got to be discovered by someone at some point. Ashfur is likely the only cat actually twisted enough to go out and find it. The imposter being him makes the most sense over any other cat, to me.
Also, Ashfur's motivation here might just be getting rejected, and while it may seem minor, there's also been cases of this with other villains? Sol for example got kicked out of SkyClan and decided to try and get revenge on all the Clans because he couldn't be a warrior. Even though it was SkyClan (more specifically, Leafstar) who did that to him. Both of these cats are taking out their misgivings on the Clans despite only one cat doing it to them, yet Ashfur's the only one who gets vocal attraction regarding it.
He's still in character during TBC as well. He's clearly still obsessed with Squirrelflight despite all the years that passed. Him not moving on from it isn't even retconning established lore. Flametail wasn't able to get over Jayfeather not saving him. Yellowfang couldn't look past her hatred of Brokenstar in OotS, and in Blackfoot's novella, Stonefur and Rosetail clearly hated Blackfoot. Why shouldn't the same be said for Ashfur? His "love" for Squirrelflight is so strong it transcends the afterlife, which, to me, is pretty terrifying in of itself.
His personality is consistent with previous books. Ashfur didn't have much of a personality in TPB (aside from his xenophobia) outside of "loyal apprentice". Leafpool even mentions that Ashfur was always outspoken in Sunrise, so he seems completely in character during Graystripe's Vow, being the argumentative little shit he was. His xenophobia is present throughout TNP (I believe he makes a few offhanded comments about kittypet blood that offends Squirrelflight and Cloudtail), and TBC where he pretty clearly has a dislike of Rootspring's mixed heritage and even condemns Violetshine for taking a non-Clan mate. He discriminates against Squirrelflight's children (like seriously, it was pretty obvious he had a special hatred for Lionblaze, Jayfeather, Alderheart, Sparkpelt, and shows an obvious disdain of Bramblestar). He tries to emotionally control and guilt/manipulate Squirrelflight too, like he did in TNP. He's still an opportunist and clearly didn't plan out this whole "destroy the Clans" goal. Heck, he himself says that all he did was take advantage of an opportunity.
Sure, his ultimate goal of being with Squirrelflight isn't as ambitious as, say, Tigerstar or maybe Darktail, but his one-track mind and obsession with her is what makes him an actual terrifying threat and is also what differentiates him from other antagonists. He has one goal and is clearly willing to do anything, no matter how underhanded and dirty, to get it. Ashfur's arguably the most realistic villain in the series. Yes, all the villains are realistic to an extent, but when was the last time you met someone like Tigerstar, Scourge, or Brokenstar? With someone like Ashfur, chances are you've met a bitter incel at least once. Heck, you might have even had the misfortune of being in a relationship with one. It really isn't too much of a leap for Ashfur to target Squirrelflight's family and then later the Clans out of nothing but petty retaliation, because that's a trait that real-life incels have. His powers? Yes, those are rather unrealistic, but his motivations and actions on the other hand are absolutely not.
I didn't find him that compelling in PoT, but that's changed in this current arc. In TBC he may be a selfish, abusive (not only to just Squirrelflight. Shadowsight, and most if not all of ThunderClan are victims), manipulative, xenophobic, and an all around absolutely horrible cat, but he is an absolute delight to read and definitely one of, if not the, most entertaining villain we've gotten. He's an excellent mix of narcissistic sociopath and entitled incel, with some demonic powers sprinkled in. His characterization is very strong, and I'm all for it. His descent from a generally good natured warrior to the monster he is now is great and easily one of his best aspects. This gave me a few interesting ideas to chew on. I like this mini-essay. I think in TNP there was some hints of Ashfur being a selfish manipulator, with how he tried to stir trouble for Leafpool by questioning her medicine cat vision that Brambleclaw should be deputy and the way he conspired with Hawkfrost to kill Firestar, his own leader, just to enact petty revenge. Like, this is the exact same crime Tigerclaw attempted on Bluestar that got him exiled. The only difference is that Tigerclaw had grander ambitions. I don't think TBC Ashfur is that OOC, if TNP Ashfur was willing to kill his own leader, a crime that he could have been exiled for! If anything, the fact that he was put into StarClan for "loving too much" was a terrible decision and excuse, so his role in TBC switches up him being let off the hook to a more interesting villain with a StarClan background. His motivations are solid as well, it's a fiction universe for children and he represents a greedy obsession which is an archetypical villain trait. But even with that, his motivations hit even more real than prior villains, who were cartoonish "lust for power/world domination" types. He does mirror some incels' actions, who are considered a terrorist threat in some countries may I add. But who Ashfur reminds me most of is Ricardo Lopez. Feel free to look him up, (TW for attempted murder and suicide), but tldr is he was a person who grew obsessed with the singer Bjork and attempted to kill her because he wanted to enact revenge on her for dating (to punish her for not paying attention to him... sound familiar?). He was so intent on his revenge, that he filmed his own suicide shortly after because he didn't want the police to find him. And, he had a fairly normal background and "easygoing personality" that his family didn't even suspect he harboured violent intentions. The motivation, the obsession, the anger from this real person all mirrors Ashfur. I think of all the Warriors villains, Ashfur hits harder because even if he has a one-track mind, it's more real, there are people out there like him. As for the point about Ashfur's powers not being part of the initial worldbuilding, I don't really mind it. The writers for this series has demonstrated time and time again that they don't focus on the finer details of worldbuilding-- they forget cat's names, retcon a bunch of stuff to make it fit the plot better, bring dead cats back to life on accident, etc. If they don't make it a focal point, I'm not going to pay attention to it. The fact that Ashfur is our first StarClan villain is enough explanation to me, StarClan cats may get different powers than a Dark Forest cat. Also, Warriors isn't exactly "high art" like Lord of the Rings is, so I don't really expect that much from this series. Just enjoying the moments they do something interesting. Thanks for liking my mess of thoughts! I likewise feel the same. Him getting off the hook so easily (and even having his actions excused by cats in universe) was stupid, but now that him being forgiven so easily is the point of the story and having that very thing questioned in universe is great. I'm a fan that StarClan, being considering wise and omnipotent in-universe, are actually being asked by cats why they let in Ashfur and forgave him. Yes, StarClan's done some questionable things such as letting SkyClan be evicted, Brokenstar, and lying to Squirrelflight/Leafpool, but how in the world could they possibly justify letting in the cat who killed his Clan leader and later attempted to murder three other cats? It shows that they're actually prone to making mistakes and aren't these all-knowing ancestors that should be followed without question. Ashfur was a StarClan cat, who, even on their own, are pretty powerful spirits in their own rights. That said, I do believe the editors anchored what personality he had in TNP and PoT and utilized that for his characterization in GV and TBC. Arcs 2 and 3 did establish things about Ashfur, such as his obsession with Squirrelflight, xenophobia, his outspoken nature, and just generally selfishness. GV and TBC just built off those and gave him more of a personality which he mostly lacked in TPB. In GV for example, Ashfur is outspoken (slamming on Graystripe continuously, and Dustpelt mentions he was an argumentative apprentice), xenophobic (his obvious dislike of Gremlin, Scraps, and BloodClan as a whole), and liking to stir up things because he's, like you said, a selfish manipulator, which I believe was showcased with him trying to get Dustpelt named as deputy, which was something Dustpelt wasn't even aware of. Naturally it makes sense that Ashfur would want his former mentor to be deputy, but the fact that Dustpelt didn't even know about it, and was actually angry when he found out, is very telling on Ashfur's part. That, and Ashfur himself was rather a minor character in the first arc, only getting actual characterization in TNP where he was a love interest for a main character as well as being a friend for another, and then again in PoT where he was Lionblaze's mentor and the main villain for the last two books of the arc. If a cat doesn't serve much purpose to the narrative, they don't really get a personality. There's exceptions to this of course, but back in arc one, Ashfur was just an apprentice who was a bit outspoken against non-Clan cats, which wasn't very telling because this was a trait a lot of other cats shared. Again, I agree that what makes him a terrifying and effective villain is his one-track mind for Squirrelflight. There are actual people out there, as you provided with Ricardo, who have Ashfur's mentality. Some people have even had the misfortunate of being in a relationship with one, perhaps just as abusive, manipulative, and controlling as Ashfur "was" to Squirrelflight before he exiled her, which might resonate a bit more with those who have had this experience. While the editors changing things around can be a bit annoying, but ultimately (for me, at least) as long as it's not a glaring noticeable change, it doesn't bother me. A post Vectoring made earlier on here I think actually does a good job of explaining why Ashfur's powers aren't as lore-breaking as some might think. I can understand the frustration that he's suddenly the most powerful cat to have ever lived without much of an explanation as to how he got them (which I do hope is explained next book), but it's a point made in Darkness Within that it's likely that no cat has simply tried to do what he's done before. As you pointed out, Ashfur is/was a StarClan cat, which very much differentiates him from other villains in terms of power, even without the new ones he got in TBC. Personally I find his whole character to be great to talk about. His fall from a generally okay warrior to a hellbent incel that's literally silenced god is something that's pretty interesting to dig into. His character, while seemingly shallow, is actually pretty deep when you delve into it and learn about the inner workings of his psyche.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Jun 30, 2021 21:40:34 GMT -5
That's what I was wondering for a while. How the heck did Ashfur get powers to control the dead and remove connection with StarClan? At the moment, I'm convinced that it's only for plot convenience. He'd have been a better villain in OOTS instead of the battle between the living, StarClan, and the Dark Forest. i agree. if they had ashfur show up from starclan like "i still have unfinished business squirrelflight." and they could have had squirrelflight kill his spirit right then and there, and be done with it...but no. we waited the whole of AVOS and 2 SE's and ashfur shows up being OP with no explanation, and they're waiting til the LAST BOOK to make up an excuse as to why and how ashfur of all lame cats deserves all this OP power... I won't be surprised if we never get an answer.
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Post by cygna on Jul 1, 2021 14:16:59 GMT -5
I love that his entire motivation is hurting Squirrelflight yet it's always the people around Squirrelflight that end up getting hurt more.
- Firestar looses a life - The three get f***ed up learning about their true parentage but Squirrel get's to learn she isn't actualy barren - Nobody who dies in the VoS battle is related to Squirrel as her entire family makes it out okay
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 1, 2021 17:11:36 GMT -5
I love that his entire motivation is hurting Squirrelflight yet it's always the people around Squirrelflight that end up getting hurt more. - Firestar looses a life - The three get f***ed up learning about their true parentage but Squirrel get's to learn she isn't actualy barren - Nobody who dies in the VoS battle is related to Squirrel as her entire family makes it out okay VOS had Ashfur being strung out of his mind on poppy seeds because he was depressed after thinking Squirrelflight died, at that point he was just flailing wildly because his raison d'etre was no longer there. The fact that he became so depressed after he thought she died makes it clear that as much as he wants her to suffer, he also wants her alive, so it makes sense he'd try to hurt everyone around her as a method to try to control her but keep her alive too.
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