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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 21:24:27 GMT -5
Despite being pure evil in cat form and doing heinous things throughout the series, Brokenstar is regarded as kind of pathetic and a joke within the fandom. Are you fine with how he is in canon? If not, how would you rewrite him?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jun 14, 2021 21:28:23 GMT -5
I'm fine with how he is in canon
The only thing I would have changed is given him more of a fight with Yellowfang in TLH
Maybe have Raggedstar with her and, together, they have to take down their son (who has become a stronger fighter in the DF) - finally putting an end to what they created. Would have been a nice moment for Raggedstar to apologize to Yellowfang too
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Post by vectoring34 on Jun 14, 2021 22:48:08 GMT -5
He's pathetic because of how easily he gets defeated. A single patrol of Thunderclan warriors stumbles into his camp, practically by accident, and he runs away like a coward without putting up any struggle. Sometime off-screen, he gets one of his followers murdered right in front of him by a pre-dog teeth Scourge and he's such a coward that he just flees on the spot. His second attack on Thunderclan is even more pitiful, with him attacking the clan while it's undefended and despite that advantage, losing without causing a single casualty and then getting brutalized by his own mom and held prisoner. His only actions in life after that consist of whining very loudly and getting manipulated by Tigerstar. Even death can bring him no dignity, as this failure of a cat somehow bungles killing Jayfeather and while he is the de facto leader of the Dark Forest it is so transparently obvious that Tigerstar is manipulating him AGAIN and he's too dumb to realize it. And then to add insult to injury, his only kill is the soft Ferncloud before he gets brutalized by mommy for the third time.
There's nothing wrong with being pathetic; Darkstripe pulls it off well, and many great villains in fiction have pulled it off well. The problem though is two fold. Problem one, he is put in direct competition with far more competent villains. How are we supposed to take him seriously when he's in the same scene as Scourge or Tigerstar? He comes off as a more stupid and weak version of them. This leads into problem two, that the narrative doesn't TREAT him like he's some loser. The narrative acts as though he's some super terrifying threat, with it trying to hype up how even blind, his cries are scary. But it's difficult to imagine how, considering this is the same cat who can't seem to do anything right. Everything he tries at, he just fails at it.
There is only ONE book where Brokenstar is a good villain and that is Yellowfang's Secret, which rather cleverly avoids all of the problems I mentioned. He's the only villain in the book so he has no competition making him look pathetic and the narrative smartly focuses on his cruelty and cunning in killing Raggedstar and blaming Yellowfang for it. Therefore, he looks effective and while still clearly kind of pathetic, it's pathetic in a properly villainous way.
That all being said, I think it'd be to the books' detriment to make Brokenstar "better". I think what should be done rather is acknowledge how pathetic he is. Make it clear that he's just a "starter" villain and that he's nothing compared to Tigerstar, and I think he can be pretty effective.
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Post by ααͺα α½ αΎf fαͺαα αΎms γβ on Jun 14, 2021 22:58:05 GMT -5
in an AU i made (where medicine cats were legally able to have kits once training an apprentice), i did brokenstar like this:
yellowfang gets pregnant before she has a trained apprentice. she and raggedstar have broken up multiple times over this issue. yellowfang runs away while prengant and gives birth at the edge of shadowclan territory. she is found by hawkheart, the windclan medicine cat, and he nurses her back to health. hawkheart delivers the news that all her kits died except one.
heartbroken, and unable to face raggedstar, she sneaks into windclan with hawkhear and brokenkit, and she gives brokenkit to a windclan queen to look after until she's ready to take him back.
brokenkit grows up believing he's a windclan cat. yellowfang confses what she'd done to raggedstar, and this causes raggedstar to lash out at her. yellowfang insists this is the right thing to do since there's no shadowclan queens to nurse brokenkit.
2-3 moons later, raggedstar takes a patrol to windclan to get his son back. this causes a fight on windclan territory. raggedstar's hatred of windclan grows. yellowfang and her sister rowanberry sneak into windclan to steal brokenkit back. the windclan queen finds them and is angered by this betrayal. yellowfang pleads with her, saying she is ready to take her son back, but the windclan queen says brokenkit is like her own now.
this causes an alarm. yellowfang quickly takes brokenkit and they escape from windclan safely into shadowclan.
brokenkit resents yellowfang from taking him from his home, and he has a hard time adjusting. raggedstar is overjoyed to see his son is back, but he pushes yellowfang aside. raggedstar, now mates with foxheart, raise brokenkit together, while yellowfang is kept away. raggedstar pulls a nightcloud, and tells lies about yellowfang to brokenkit. brokenkit grows up to resent yellowfang more, and to denounce his windclan adopted family. brokenkit grows up beliving he will be leader after his father.
raggedstar makes foxheart brokenpaw's mentor. this makes yellowfang jealous and angry, and it further breaks her heart since brokenpaw prefers foxheart as his mother over her.
i didnt get far with this AU, but i want brokenstar to start viewing raggedstar as weak, and plot his own father's death via bringing rats to shadowclan? brokenstar would be a better fighter, and his reason for driving out windclan would not only be his personal grudge (taught by raggedstar), but also that brokenstar wanted to prove himself as the rightful leader. he uses fear to control shadowclan, and manipulates everyone into giving over their young kits to be trained early.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jun 14, 2021 23:11:24 GMT -5
He's pathetic because of how easily he gets defeated. A single patrol of Thunderclan warriors stumbles into his camp, practically by accident, and he runs away like a coward without putting up any struggle. Sometime off-screen, he gets one of his followers murdered right in front of him by a pre-dog teeth Scourge and he's such a coward that he just flees on the spot. His second attack on Thunderclan is even more pitiful, with him attacking the clan while it's undefended and despite that advantage, losing without causing a single casualty and then getting brutalized by his own mom and held prisoner. His only actions in life after that consist of whining very loudly and getting manipulated by Tigerstar. Even death can bring him no dignity, as this failure of a cat somehow bungles killing Jayfeather and while he is the de facto leader of the Dark Forest it is so transparently obvious that Tigerstar is manipulating him AGAIN and he's too dumb to realize it. And then to add insult to injury, his only kill is the soft Ferncloud before he gets brutalized by mommy for the third time. There's nothing wrong with being pathetic; Darkstripe pulls it off well, and many great villains in fiction have pulled it off well. The problem though is two fold. Problem one, he is put in direct competition with far more competent villains. How are we supposed to take him seriously when he's in the same scene as Scourge or Tigerstar? He comes off as a more stupid and weak version of them. This leads into problem two, that the narrative doesn't TREAT him like he's some loser. The narrative acts as though he's some super terrifying threat, with it trying to hype up how even blind, his cries are scary. But it's difficult to imagine how, considering this is the same cat who can't seem to do anything right. Everything he tries at, he just fails at it. There is only ONE book where Brokenstar is a good villain and that is Yellowfang's Secret, which rather cleverly avoids all of the problems I mentioned. He's the only villain in the book so he has no competition making him look pathetic and the narrative smartly focuses on his cruelty and cunning in killing Raggedstar and blaming Yellowfang for it. Therefore, he looks effective and while still clearly kind of pathetic, it's pathetic in a properly villainous way. That all being said, I think it'd be to the books' detriment to make Brokenstar "better". I think what should be done rather is acknowledge how pathetic he is. Make it clear that he's just a "starter" villain and that he's nothing compared to Tigerstar, and I think he can be pretty effective. On the plus side about it being Yellowfang is that Yellowfang has at least shown to be a capable warrior. She also managed to fight off Blackfoot, who is also a decent fighter. It seems like they can't decide if they want him to be cunning or an idiot.
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Cloudy Sky
*briefly emerges from under my massive pile of schoolwork* I LIVE
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Post by Cloudy Sky on Jun 14, 2021 23:12:09 GMT -5
He's pathetic because of how easily he gets defeated. A single patrol of Thunderclan warriors stumbles into his camp, practically by accident, and he runs away like a coward without putting up any struggle. Sometime off-screen, he gets one of his followers murdered right in front of him by a pre-dog teeth Scourge and he's such a coward that he just flees on the spot. His second attack on Thunderclan is even more pitiful, with him attacking the clan while it's undefended and despite that advantage, losing without causing a single casualty and then getting brutalized by his own mom and held prisoner. His only actions in life after that consist of whining very loudly and getting manipulated by Tigerstar. Even death can bring him no dignity, as this failure of a cat somehow bungles killing Jayfeather and while he is the de facto leader of the Dark Forest it is so transparently obvious that Tigerstar is manipulating him AGAIN and he's too dumb to realize it. And then to add insult to injury, his only kill is the soft Ferncloud before he gets brutalized by mommy for the third time. There's nothing wrong with being pathetic; Darkstripe pulls it off well, and many great villains in fiction have pulled it off well. The problem though is two fold. Problem one, he is put in direct competition with far more competent villains. How are we supposed to take him seriously when he's in the same scene as Scourge or Tigerstar? He comes off as a more stupid and weak version of them. This leads into problem two, that the narrative doesn't TREAT him like he's some loser. The narrative acts as though he's some super terrifying threat, with it trying to hype up how even blind, his cries are scary. But it's difficult to imagine how, considering this is the same cat who can't seem to do anything right. Everything he tries at, he just fails at it. There is only ONE book where Brokenstar is a good villain and that is Yellowfang's Secret, which rather cleverly avoids all of the problems I mentioned. He's the only villain in the book so he has no competition making him look pathetic and the narrative smartly focuses on his cruelty and cunning in killing Raggedstar and blaming Yellowfang for it. Therefore, he looks effective and while still clearly kind of pathetic, it's pathetic in a properly villainous way. That all being said, I think it'd be to the books' detriment to make Brokenstar "better". I think what should be done rather is acknowledge how pathetic he is. Make it clear that he's just a "starter" villain and that he's nothing compared to Tigerstar, and I think he can be pretty effective. On the plus side about it being Yellowfang is that Yellowfang has at least shown to be a capable warrior. She also managed to fight off Blackfoot, who is also a decent fighter. It seems like they can't decide if they want him to be cunning or an idiot. ...a cunning idiot?
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Post by Rainsplash on Jun 15, 2021 2:58:02 GMT -5
I couldn't.
Jokes aside, it makes me cross when people treat villains like a joke. Like, Voldemort, for an instance. I've seen too many people say Voldemort's too weak because he can't take down a high school (Not the case). Rather like that, Brokenstar is treated like a joke. He is portrayed as pathetic sometimes, but I wish people would take him more seriously. So, I would probably make Brokenstar put up more fight, more fight anywhere! When ThunderClan found him, in the last battle... Like Ottersplash said, Raggedstar and Yellowfang killing him, with Raggedstar apologizing then, would have been nice.
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Post by ΚΚα΄α΄α΄α΄Ι΄κ±α΄Ι΄ β on Jun 15, 2021 5:14:16 GMT -5
Unrelated but Brokenstar totally reminds me of the Ice King in AT.
Like, just how they're both disregarded as pathetic jokes who act a lot more evil and strong than they actually are.
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Post by cygna on Jun 15, 2021 9:16:35 GMT -5
A few things.
1. Donβt make him inherently bad - This is a really dumb reason to have someone be evil. Heβs Literally cat Voldemort except his parents kinda loved each other I guess.
2. Let his upbringing be what screws him up instead - Being abused by his foster mother could make him resentful and apathetic towards queens and kits. Add that to his father feeding his ego you have a recipe for disaster no born bad bs.
3. Keep everything else from the same except in the dark forest donβt make him be killed by his mom again making him look ultra pathetic because he absolutely was not a pathetic cat. Heβs the #1 kit murderer and thatβs scary. Let him go out in battle.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 9:24:47 GMT -5
A few things. 1. Donβt make him inherently bad - This is a really dumb reason to have someone be evil. Heβs Literally cat Voldemort except his parents kinda loved each other I guess. 2. Let his upbringing be what screws him up instead - Being abused by his foster mother could make him resentful and apathetic towards queens and kits. Add that to his father feeding his ego you have a recipe for disaster no born bad bs. 3. Keep everything else from the same except in the dark forest donβt make him be killed by his mom again making him look ultra pathetic because he absolutely was not a pathetic cat. Heβs the #1 kit murderer and thatβs scary. Let him go out in battle. I saw an old post on here where instead of Yellowfang Brokenstar was cornered and killed by the spirits of the kits he killed indirectly and directly, which would've been so much better. I think Badgerfang was leading them. Edit: I found it
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Post by π±ππππππππππ on Jun 15, 2021 10:16:48 GMT -5
Not at all. Brokenstar was fine with being his pathetic self just like Darkstripe still is.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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αΉ’anΙypawβ’
The Shiny User
π΅Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy goπ΅
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Post by αΉ’anΙypawβ’ on Jun 15, 2021 17:18:29 GMT -5
I'd fix Brokenstar's death by making him suffer some more as retribution for all the kits' deaths he caused.
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Post by wftl1980 on Jun 16, 2021 1:53:23 GMT -5
Given fix is a euphemism for desexing; with great difficulty I imagine. I wouldnβt want to be the vet having to wrangle with Brokenstar
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Post by ππ₯πππ€π¬π¨π₯ on Jul 6, 2021 9:06:52 GMT -5
I'm fine with how he is, I just wish he and Yellowfang had an epic final battle in The Last Hope
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 6, 2021 9:41:35 GMT -5
He's only pathetic by default because he's a Season 1 villain. Villains like that are often good at their job in the beginning of their series, but just as a side effect of serialization and power creep often fall to the wayside as more competent villains inevitably show up. Nothing wrong with that at all.
OotS should have given him a better blowout though, I agree. At that point he should have been more evenly matched with the other baddies.
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Post by Redstorm on Jul 7, 2021 0:26:56 GMT -5
Blackstar's novella made him seem like a cold psychopath that still draws cats in which I found a good contrast to the larger than life Tigerstar. I think play him up as that cold but charismatic psychopath. And don't make him so weak where he gets destroyed by Yellowfang.
I think they should only make him break down and get rageful when he's flustered. Right now he just seems like discount, but edgier Tigerstar.
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