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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 12:27:18 GMT -5
What are some of yours?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jun 13, 2021 13:08:08 GMT -5
I think people's bias and hatred toward Mapleshade clouds the fact that she was also a victim so they try to rationalize the blame of her kits deaths and how she was treated like garbage, on her and only her while trying to paint her victims as near innocent. At the end of the day she's still a victim but the level of hoops I see people jump through to negate this and justify the actions of characters in the story just because she later turned into a villain, annoys me. Another is the demonization of certain characters in favor of other ships or opposing characters that get babied in this fandom; like Nightcloud, Bumblestripe, and Bramblestar. Imo I feel like the only reason any of these cats get so much hate is because of how other characters/ships are preferred by fans and their worst moments are constantly brought up despite not being as nearly as bad as the characters they defend in said situations; Crowfeather, Dovewing, and Squirrelflight, etc. The whataboutism used to defend latter characters is also an annoying defense I constantly see, despite said opposing characters being easily criticized on their own. Just because a character is aligned good doesn't make them a morally good character, and vice versa, just because a character is aligned bad, doesn't mean they can't be morally good. I feel like people see things too much in black and white, while some characters are strongly morally gray. But it also annoys me when people pass certain characters as being "complex" despite situations like neglecting their families and abuse, that doesn't make them morally gray in my book, that just makes them a jerk. I think the term morally gray/complex is both collectively overlooked in this fandom by some, while also used on unnecessary characters that don't fit the sentiment one bit. I'm tired of codebreakers being excused for their behaviors in general. "Love shouldn't be a crime, they deserved to be happy" yeah but not at the cost of drama and dragging other cats into their situations. The code exists for a reason, no it's not perfect and I heavily disagree with certain ones, but not all of them are pointless. And what's the point of the code anymore if cats constantly break it. The characters took an oath, a promise to their clan, and their actions they later proceed to do are dishonorable and breaks the code. If that is the case then punishment is necessary, especially if the said cats lie and go behind their clanmates' backs. If cats were more honest about their actions and changing of their nations then it would be much smoother and an easier process. Things wouldn't end as much on bad blood even, who knows. But if you're willing to break the code for a significant other then you better be willing to go through the punishments that follow it. Either ride and die with the decision or don't bother at all because backing out of it and trying to have your cake and eat it too just makes the relationship seem disingenuous in my eyes. Own up to your mistakes and stop being cowardly. I'm also tired of people and the Erins, being so quick to want to kill off troubled youth characters that have been manipulated and coerced into doing heinous acts. They're young, naïve, and misguided, they learn from others around them, soaking up their behaviors like sponges and becoming products of their environments. I think two of the most notable characters from those categories are Needletail and Breezepelt, and out of the two, only one of them was actually successfully redeemed in the story, and the other was iced too early on. Whereas I do think Needletail's redemption wasn't that good, it annoys me that people praise it but also trash on Breezepelt's redemption, despite it being much longer and well written in CT?? I don't think characters need to die to be redeemed, and I do think that younger characters that have been led astray deserve a better chance on their own. I find it a bit ridiculous that when younger characters go through abusive relationships with their manipulators, fans are quick to gloss over it in favor of "but they did this and they did that, they're horrible!11!! they deserve to die" arguments. What these characters actually deserve are a chance to grow on their own and not in the shadows of their abusers. You can acknowledge a character is crappy, you don't even have to like them or bother trying to forgive them for their actions, but at least acknowledge from a writing point of view they deserve better, not death. Probably have more but I'll just add it later...
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Post by Cheetahstar on Jun 13, 2021 15:12:50 GMT -5
Mapleshade was a victim and to deny so is gross
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 15:24:34 GMT -5
Millie isn't the horrible ableist demon the fandom makes her out to be at all
All of the alternative Bramblestar and Squirrelflight ships I've seen are garbage. Squirrelflight's are especially bad and just feel like people are pairing her up for pairing's sake. Like Nightcloud x Squirrelflight?? Where did this come from? And MoonSquirrel oh man. Bramblestar's also feel super forced and baseless as well, especially BrambleFeather and BrambleSorrel. Just shipping them with anybody out of spite for BrambleSquirrel/the other character. I can't get behind any of them.
Hollyleaf is overrated and not that interesting or likeable. I was expecting some great character when I went into POT since she was so hyped up and plastered everywhere but she just fell flat on her face.
Slate is better than Turtle Tail and GraySlate is better than GrayTurtle. Turtle Tail was kind of annoying once she came back.
Stonefur is overrated, the only time he was interesting was in his final moments. Deadfoot is too, he was cute in Tallstar's Revenge, but was just kind of there in TPB.
Not really a hot take but DustFern > BrackenSorrel
BerryPoppy > BerryHoney, Poppyfrost > Honeyfern
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jun 13, 2021 15:28:36 GMT -5
Stonefur is overrated. Yes he died saving Featherpaw and Stormpaw, but it feels like he actually had no character after that. He had a few lines in Mistystar's omen and Crookedstar's Promise, but nothing ever made me love him.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jun 13, 2021 17:07:23 GMT -5
The Sisters are overrated. I fail to see how great they are because the only thing that makes them unique is that they kick out the toms which I find gross. Idk why other people like them so much.
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Post by cygna on Jun 13, 2021 19:49:03 GMT -5
I hate that no one ever blames Leafpool for anything and overlook her flaws such as the fact she never told Crowfeather about their children and forced yes FORCED Squirrelflight to look after her children despite her sister's reasonable reluctance about not wanting to lie to anyone or jeopardize her relationship with Bramble.
FireSand was a garbage romance. It's very cliche that Sandstorm only begins to see worth in Fireheart after he saves her. It doesn't make her a good cat and it isn't good character development. This ship is as overrated as heck.
Bramblestar is a garbage mate and I don't love him as a character or at all for the matter but I don't like when people insist he's irredeemable and excuse everything Squirrelflight does in regards to their relationship. I even say this as someone who shipped SquirrelAsh in TNP. Bramble is way too over hated.
Star Flower never deserved a redemption arc she deserved to die or at the very least stay out of the story.
Storm was unnessesery her story could have been easily replaced by Bright Stream. I also hated the instalove she and Clear Sky had going on.
Clear Sky isn't that interesting or complex.
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Post by Rainsplash on Jun 13, 2021 20:50:53 GMT -5
I don't care for Cinderpelt, Brightheart, or Feathertail. Stonefur is overrated. GraySlate is better than GrayTurtle. I felt like Turtle Tail was sort of annoying.
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yondertides
"You've got the guts of a coyote pack."-Cloud Cult
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Post by yondertides on Jun 13, 2021 21:28:09 GMT -5
I don't know how hot this take is, but Hawkfrost was endlessly more interesting than Brambleclaw and deserved to be either a more successful villain or to have a redemption arc.
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Hot Takes
Jun 14, 2021 0:14:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by MadameDelune on Jun 14, 2021 0:14:15 GMT -5
Thistleclaw was a great father and mate
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 14, 2021 0:24:23 GMT -5
the biggest hot takes of all time: TBC is garbage, ashfur coming back years later as the main villain is garbage, ashfur being some big powerful "genius" mastermind is garbage.
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Post by Aqua on Jun 14, 2021 0:39:51 GMT -5
Dovewing is NOT at fault for everything, and Ivypool isn't that great.
Now, do I understand her feelings? Do I understand that she was jealous and felt left out? Yes. I've experienced these emotions that she goes through, so I understand exactly how she feels. But every time people defend her, everyone blames Dovewing for it. It's Dovewing's fault she's miserable, it's Dovewing's fault she's into the DovexTiger drama, it's Dovewing's fault Ivypool was captured by ShadowClan. People blame Dovewing for EVERYTHING, and I don't think that's fair. And yes, I'm aware that Dovewing was an asshole, but I don't think people understand that there's two sides with these sisters, and Dovewing is NOT always the cause of Ivypool's problems.
I also feel like a lot of people make a big deal out of Ivypool for nothing. She didn't do her job, and people say "She was being watched!!!111!!" So? She made a promise, didn't she? She's supposed to protect her clan, like people seem to make a big deal for Dovewing's own loyalty, and yet for some reason her fans excuse her why she didn't do anything but rat out Dovewing by saying she should have spied instead. Uhm. People do realize that Ivypool couldn't escape her place from the Dark Forest at that point, right? So why do people blame Dovewing for not spying for Ivypool? It wasn't her job, for one; the three specifically asked IVYPOOL to do it - yet her fans like to crap on Dovewing by saying how much it would've "saved her life". Dovewing spying wasn't going to change anything. Ivypool was already there and the dark forest believed she was one of them; it was Dovewing's job to spy in the other Clans, and THAT is the one she should have done and people should be mad at her for, but I'll get onto that problem in another rant.
I have never seen a character excused so much as Ivypool. She trained in the dark forest, risking her life? "She was manipulated!!!11" She didn't do her job? "She was scared and she was being watched!!!!11111!!!" She killed Antpelt? "She did it for her clan!!!!11111!!!!" She didn't report something? "Dovewing woke her up!!!!!!!1111111!!!!" She felt left out? "Dovewing went on a journey and abandoned her!!!!!11111!!!!!"
Like good grief, Ivypool fans, I'm all for understanding characters, but the amount of excuses Ivypool gets is beyond ridiculous. People blame her sister for everything, but Ivypool is as much fault with a lot of things as well, but if I point it out people get mad at me lol.
It also doesn't help that people used to talk shit about me behind my back because of Ivypool. I was treated like crap because of it.
So I guess I don't really have a problem with Ivypool herself, but her fandom is annoying. They blame Dovewing for all of her problems, but rereading OotS, she really brought most of these problems upon herself. She didn't HAVE to get involved into DovexTiger, and she was the one who chose to train in the dark forest and believe in them. Because of this she caused a battle that killed Russetfur and Firestar lost 2 lives, killing many other clan cats and others were wounded as well. Worse than that, she didn't even care cats got hurt; she just cared about how she showed off her strength and that's it.
It also doesn't help that she had many, many opportunities of getting information other than watching the dark forest warriors. Hawkfrost alone OFFERED to give Ivypool any information and she didn't do it. So Dovewing was blamed for Ivypool not getting information because she got woken up? How about the time when Hawkfrost offered Ivypool information? Why didn't she ask him if she missed something from her dream in TLH?
I don't want her to become deputy. She's already been around long enough, and her becoming deputy will be fan service at its finest. She's not mature enough to handle her own emotions for that status imo. Even if she had good intentions, she doesn't always treat other cats right. She lashes out, she's rude, and stupid at times too.
I don't think Ivypool is that big of a deal. I like her a lot more in AVoS, but other than that I just don't care for her. Her fandom has soured my opinion on her, and I really don't care if I'm being "harsh" on a fictional book character. She pisses me off, and it's annoying how even the BOOKS make her look like a big deal when she's not. She's a lot more tolerable in the background. Ivypool had plenty of mistakes she needed to own up to, but she never does.
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Post by Showers on Jun 14, 2021 1:02:41 GMT -5
jayfeather is largely misunderstood by people who think he's "rude for no reason".
the sisters aren't nearly as awful as the clans are.
leafpool was right to lie about the kits.
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Post by kitters on Jun 14, 2021 1:27:55 GMT -5
Dovewing and Leafpool's mistakes aren't as bad as people make them out to be, and tbh I think they're both completely innocent. They're victims of the warrior code and Leafpool deserved to be able to raise her kits in safety and Dovewing has every right in the world to choose her own happiness over family.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 14, 2021 6:50:23 GMT -5
I don't get why everyone loves brackenfur more than most background characters, like flipclaw is a much better background character in my opinion but he doesn't get nearly the amount of fans that brackenfur has. I like brackenfur, but he is a tad bit overrated.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 14, 2021 10:07:06 GMT -5
TPB is a terribly generic arc with a mostly boring or irritating cast, with plot twists that are either way too predictable that it makes things uninteresting or too unpredictable that it makes things come out of left field.
Skystar had a great character arc and Star Flower really isn't that bad after TBS.
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Post by downfalls on Jun 14, 2021 15:33:02 GMT -5
These takes are gonna be hotter than fire.
Bristlefrost wouldn't make a good deputy. Crookedstar > Oakheart. Killing off background characters is kind of unnescessary.
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Post by αɳσɱαʅყ on Jun 14, 2021 16:17:43 GMT -5
we take fictional cats too seriously
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 16:30:26 GMT -5
If Thistleclaw stans want a "flawed and aggressive side antagonist but cares about his family/clan" character that 1. Is an actual good example of that 2. doesn't suck. clawface and mudclaw are literally right there
Edit: also people blaming dovewing for the fact that bumblestripe is trash...ashfur defenders v2. idc that bumblestripe Isn't As Bad they sound so similar <3
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Post by Showers on Jun 15, 2021 1:20:50 GMT -5
I don't get why everyone loves brackenfur more than most background characters, like flipclaw is a much better background character in my opinion but he doesn't get nearly the amount of fans that brackenfur has. I like brackenfur, but he is a tad bit overrated. brackenfur is as appealing as white bread but he's been around since the first arc, so he's going to have more fans.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Jun 16, 2021 6:26:43 GMT -5
Yeah, that makes sense
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Post by Phoenix1410 on Jun 16, 2021 13:26:31 GMT -5
TBC fails on multiple levels, especially regarding explanations on things that should be important to the story. We still don't know how Ashfur, a StarClan cat, has mind control powers (even though it has never been shown that StarClan cats or Dark Forest cats have such powers) and how he found out that ghost have the ability of possession. The latter really irritates me, because Ashfur posssessing Bramblestar's body is basically the thing that started the entire conflict of this arc. Why haven't we got an explanation for that?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 16, 2021 13:30:14 GMT -5
TBC fails on multiple levels, especially regarding explanations on things that should be important to the story. We still don't know how Ashfur, a StarClan cat, has mind control powers (even though it has never been shown that StarClan cats or Dark Forest cats have such powers) and how he found out that ghost have the ability of possession. The latter really irritates me, because Ashfur posssessing Bramblestar's body is basically the thing that started the entire conflict of this arc. Why haven't we got an explanation for that? There's still one book left before the arc is over, it's likely we'll get an explanation for it then. We know from DW that StarClan sent Ashfur to do something, but we haven't gotten an answer for that yet, either. I think it's best to be patient for now.
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Hot Takes
Jun 16, 2021 13:40:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Phoenix1410 on Jun 16, 2021 13:40:27 GMT -5
TBC fails on multiple levels, especially regarding explanations on things that should be important to the story. We still don't know how Ashfur, a StarClan cat, has mind control powers (even though it has never been shown that StarClan cats or Dark Forest cats have such powers) and how he found out that ghost have the ability of possession. The latter really irritates me, because Ashfur posssessing Bramblestar's body is basically the thing that started the entire conflict of this arc. Why haven't we got an explanation for that? There's still one book left before the arc is over, it's likely we'll get an explanation for it then. We know from DW that StarClan sent Ashfur to do something, but we haven't gotten an answer for that yet, either. I think it's best to be patient for now. I really want to believe the possibility, but honestly I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 13:45:02 GMT -5
1. Sandynose isn't a bad character or mentor, he might have been strict, but at least he paid attention to his apprentice.
2. While it is a noble thing that Squirrelflight agreed to say Leafpool's kits were hers, I feel like she gets too much credit in both the series and the fandom. She wasn't even going to take them in until Yellowfang told her she was barren, and she didn't even stay in the nursery with them.
3. Minnowtail x Mousewhisker is overrated.
4. I find several characters, such as Icewing, Ivypool, Briarlight, Minnowtail, Sedgewhisker, Dustpelt, etc to be very overrated.
5. The only parts of the code that should change are the leaders word and the rejecting the soft life of a kittypet.
6. Ravenwing did nothing wrong, and all of Mapleshade's victims get too much hate.
7. I have no problem with how big ThunderClan is, what I do have a problem with, is how they only focus on the same 3 cats in the clan.
8. None of Firestar's or Tigerclaw's children were that great. Leafpool is annoying af, Squirrelflight is annoying, Mothflight is annoying, overrated, and wasted potential. Tawnypelt is ...seriously her claim to fame is being bitten by a RAT. Hawkfrost is just a generic brown tabby tom villain.
9. A lot of the pairings in this series is dumb, why are you going to hook up cats who were adults before the other was born, when there are several other cats from the same generation? I want more pairings where the characters are in the same age range, I think that would make a lot more sense because they actually trained together, shared a den, but instead you have, "OH I trained with your father when we were kits..." I know it's no big deal since they're both adults, but these large age gap ships when there are many other characters like Mousewhisker instead of Thornclaw, I just don't get it.
10. Last one because I think this is enough, I do not get the appeal of TBC at all.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jul 6, 2021 9:04:02 GMT -5
Redtail is underrated. He had many interesting things andq qualities in his novella, even though it was a mess at the end.
Mapleshade may be a victim, but she still is the most evil cat in the Warrior Cats universe.
Some Squirrelflight fans have ruined her. She is now stated as overrated, when it's actually a pretty even split. Around the 45% likes her, 45% dislikes her, 10% is neutral on her. But because like 30% of Squirrelflight stans are toxic and saying things like: 'If you hate Squirrelflight, you don't believe in woman rights', and are not acknowledging that she is flawed and did bad things too, is she now stated as overrated while she shouldn't be. I hate this toxic Squirrelflight stans.
Ivypool is way too overrated.
The fandom is toxic asf.
people should blame Leafpool more. Just bc she had a hard life, doesn't mean she isn't responsible for 70% what happend in it.
Bumblestripe is a creep and always will be. He literally started making excuses to sleep next to her and he rejected his sister to touch Dovewing :/ and with touch I mean train, but it's still touch
People shouldn't be mad at Star Flower for saving her dad, especially when you find out later that her mom and siblings died and One Eye was the only thing she had left.
Squirrelflight is not a bad mate, but her attitude doesn't match Bramblestar's personality, so I feel like that's number 1 why their relationship doesn't work. Number 2 is him being abusive and crap.
Hawkfrost is way more interesting than Bramblestar and he was probably being manipulated by Tigerstar. He was also very likely trying to get both his sister and his half-brother what they wanted; Mothwing the medicine cat position, Brambleclaw the leader position, but he tried to give it to them in the wrong way what was probably influenced by Tigerstar so he would go to the Dark Forest where they could use his manipulation skills for the Dark Forest trainees.
Feathertail is the most realistic cat written.
Slate > Turtle Tail, GrayxSlate > GrayxTurtle
Twigbranch had every right to switch Clans, she was just trying to find out where she belonged.
Blackstar is a good leader.
Sol is a genius and a failure at the same time.
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Post by Seven on Jul 6, 2021 16:02:12 GMT -5
The guardian cats were way more interesting than the sisters Bristleroot is cute and good
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chaoticquail
Hiya! I'm Quail, a random Warrior Cats obsessed bean!
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Post by chaoticquail on Jul 7, 2021 12:34:50 GMT -5
Going to unload some “hot takes” about Mapleshade’s Vengeance. They’ve likely been considered hot takes before, but I gotta get them outta my system, so here you are! Going to post again on this thread later, so stay tuned!
Mapleshade absolutely does not get cut any slack anywhere, and I feel like if she wasn’t treated so badly (her kits not being accepted by anybody, including her own MATE; her kits drowning and nobody helping her; being rejected by some of her most trusted companions; having hallucinations about her kits’ spirits being trapped unless she can literally murder those who wronged her; none of those cats being mentioned of going to the Dark Forest; her mate who rejected her immediately having a new mate WHO IS PREGNANT?!; THEN she is killed by an apprentice and she herself goes to the Dark Forest even though all she was doing was trying to free her children’s spirits that she was hallucinating about) then she might have been a very loyal, loving, and respected character! I consider her subject to circumstance. I’m not saying she was a victim, but she sure wasn’t the only one deserving of the Dark Forest!
Ravenwing did not deserve his death. He was just trying to do the right thing. Frecklewish is more in the grey area. She was ridden with grief for her brother’s death, then she thought she still had something to hold on to of him; the kits. Turns out they were actually the kits of the very cat that killed her brother. But that still doesn’t justify standing by while innocent kits are dying. Appledusk is the most deserving in my opinion. He abandoned his mate in a time of need, and scorned his own kits. He also had another mate pretty much immediately. VERY sus, Appledusk.
Mapleshade was put through some serious mental pain, further proof of this is shown from her hallucinations. That is no excuse for her ruthless pursuit and murder of three cats, but it shows that if she had been treated in a more respectful way, things could have been very different.
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