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Post by Aqua on Jun 7, 2021 22:52:16 GMT -5
Last one lol. Should Breezepelt be forgiven after what he did in OotS?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jun 7, 2021 23:26:45 GMT -5
Breezepelt is a cat where I don't think he deserves forgiveness, but he shouldn't automatically not be forgiven. I like how they did it in CT, actually.
Some cats didn't forgive him (some clanmates, Jayfeather), while other cats were more willing to forgive his actions (Harestar, Onestar, Crowfeather, Lionblaze, and Heathertail).
He's a good case of no one being obligated to forgive him because he committed atrocities, but he also showed he'd change and while he is DEFINITELY not entitled to forgiveness, it's up to the individual cats he's wronged and they shouldn't be put down for forgiving or not
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 1:43:31 GMT -5
no
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 8, 2021 1:58:56 GMT -5
if he was written better, maybe. his redemption being glossed over doesn't help give me a better opinion for this one
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Post by Rainsplash on Jun 8, 2021 8:41:38 GMT -5
No.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jun 8, 2021 9:03:25 GMT -5
I mean he never really expected to be and I know I certainly didn’t feel obliged to, hence why CT was so good in my opinion. Because cats still hated Breezepelt and it wasn’t like it was some cushy forgiveness like we were basically forced to do with Hollyleaf or Blackstar. Or the gross “redemption” Needletail had which was literally her still being garbage and not changing at all whatsoever and cats acting like she was some hero lol. Breezepelt still fought the stoats and still protected Lionblaze, but he wasn’t out here demanding forgiveness. If anything, Crowfeather was the one who was so gung ho that Breezepelt be forgiven, even though he did lowkey think about his own son being dead, but let’s ignore that of course lol. I can’t recall Breezepelt ever acting like he deserved forgiveness for anything he did, he just focused on doing his duties and caring about his mother.
Still confused why people think Breezepelt not being angry at his father anymore and being able to mend his relationships is some horrible thing, considering it’s literally just development as he got older. He’s still snappy and harsh and sarcastic, he’s just not hateful anymore, and honestly I’m glad for that. Does he deserve to be forgiven? I think that’s up to the cats he hurt, not a matter of a definitive yes or no. I vastly prefer how Breezepelt was written so that most of Windclan didn’t forgive him. Which means the good actions he makes afterwards aren’t based on him begging for forgiveness, but him doing what he’s supposed to do because he does it of his own merit and honor now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 9:05:24 GMT -5
Nope
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jun 8, 2021 9:14:11 GMT -5
I would say no. Many things have still gone unnoticed about his character, and he hasn't taken responsability for them.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jun 8, 2021 9:59:48 GMT -5
If he's working to be a better cat now and starting a new family with Heathertail and on better terms with his father, I would say yes. Not glossing or watering down what he did (or attempted to do) but if he's moving on, it's up to others if they want to move along with him or simply stay where they are.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 11:15:19 GMT -5
No... but if changes and really regrets what he did in the past then I guess he could be forgiven.
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Post by briarfrost on Jun 8, 2021 11:20:00 GMT -5
Forgiveness isn’t, imo, some blanket a person can ‘earn’ or ‘deserve’. It’s entirely up to the person they hurt whether they want to forgive them or not, just as it’s up to the person who did the hurting whether they want to try making amends or not. And they shouldn’t hinge on each other; ie, the hurt person can still forgive the hurter even if the hurter isn’t changing as a matter of personal belief/letting go of anger/etc., or the hurter can still try to make it up to the person they hurt or change themselves for the better, even if the wronged party refuses to ever forgive them.
So, no, I don’t think Breezepelt ‘deserves’ forgiveness, anymore than anyone else is ‘owed’ it, but I liked how CT handled the matter, and I think the effort to change and grow is something worthy.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 8, 2021 13:01:30 GMT -5
i remember what i forgot to mention in my original reply.
do u think atonement is a better term for characters like breezepelt? if he didnt expect forgiveness and doesnt deserve redemption in the eyes of a big portion of the fandom, then should he atone instead of be redeemed? being redeemped implies others involvement, right? if no one can actually forgive him, then how could he have atoned on screen?
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Post by briarfrost on Jun 8, 2021 13:26:15 GMT -5
i remember what i forgot to mention in my original reply. do u think atonement is a better term for characters like breezepelt? if he didnt expect forgiveness and doesnt deserve redemption in the eyes of a big portion of the fandom, then should he atone instead of be redeemed? being redeemped implies others involvement, right? if no one can actually forgive him, then how could he have atoned on screen? I think the difference in those words is just a matter of perception? Like, being redeemed imo means that a character’s standing in another’s eyes has improved, while atonement is working towards change or making amends disregarding how others think of them. The actions taken would just be the same if that makes sense? Ie, say Breeze volunteered for the crappiest patrols. He hates those patrols. Everyone hates those patrols! And by going on those crappy, hated patrols, he’s taking the burden from someone else as a way to make amends to the society/Clan/cat in question. Half the fandom says “he’s really trying, I think he’s redeemed”. The other half goes “no, this doesn’t make up for everything”. So I think it’s really just a matter of perspective, which is why those “was x redeemed” threads can be divisive. The Erins included atonement attempts (saving Lion, volunteering for the dangerous part of the stoat mission) in CT, with the overall intent to redeem him in the eyes of the fandom. For some, it worked, for others, it didn’t. …sorry if this wasn’t meant to be directed to me btw, lol.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jun 8, 2021 13:37:17 GMT -5
briarfrostreading ur reply made me remember this so its not specifically directed to u. just general! i wish oots was written to show us breezepelt's fear and doubt when in the dark forest. like draco malfoy, who was scared and did what the death eaters told him to because he felt he had no other choice. he wouldn't get respect if he didnt do it. he would ruin his family and endanger himself if he didnt do it. this could have been breezepelt. then oots would end showing breezepelt's immediate guilt, but we wouldnt get to see his whole arc until a novella (i would prefer a post oots novella about breezepelt and not dovewing...her novella sucked imo).
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jun 8, 2021 17:17:24 GMT -5
Until he has a nice long chat with Poppyfrost, no.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jun 8, 2021 18:54:53 GMT -5
briarfrost reading ur reply made me remember this so its not specifically directed to u. just general! i wish oots was written to show us breezepelt's fear and doubt when in the dark forest. like draco malfoy, who was scared and did what the death eaters told him to because he felt he had no other choice. he wouldn't get respect if he didnt do it. he would ruin his family and endanger himself if he didnt do it. this could have been breezepelt. then oots would end showing breezepelt's immediate guilt, but we wouldnt get to see his whole arc until a novella (i would prefer a post oots novella about breezepelt and not dovewing...her novella sucked imo). He honestly probably deserved a book more than Crowfeather. We know Crowfeather pretty well, we've had his pov before.
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Cloudy Sky
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Post by Cloudy Sky on Jun 8, 2021 20:34:06 GMT -5
briarfrost reading ur reply made me remember this so its not specifically directed to u. just general! i wish oots was written to show us breezepelt's fear and doubt when in the dark forest. like draco malfoy, who was scared and did what the death eaters told him to because he felt he had no other choice. he wouldn't get respect if he didnt do it. he would ruin his family and endanger himself if he didnt do it. this could have been breezepelt. then oots would end showing breezepelt's immediate guilt, but we wouldnt get to see his whole arc until a novella (i would prefer a post oots novella about breezepelt and not dovewing...her novella sucked imo). He honestly probably deserved a book more than Crowfeather. We know Crowfeather pretty well, we've had his pov before. Where did we have Crowfeather's POV apart from CT? I genuinely can't remember
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Post by Snowfire on Jun 8, 2021 21:08:39 GMT -5
I enjoyed reading about his redemption arc in CT, but I did not like how they were previously setting him up to be a main villain, he stood over Hollyleaf, his half-sister's body and he was all smug about it, then in DS that book acted like he was gonna be the bad guy, no hint of the Breezepelt we know today, I think they should've set up his sudden change of heart, maybe add something between DS and CT, show us a reason why he became a cat who realized his mistake. Otherwise, I'm not sure whether he should be forgiven or not.
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Aroace
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
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Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jun 9, 2021 13:17:44 GMT -5
While he has been forgiven by some cats, others have not given him that chance and I don't think that he really expects them to. It all depends on the individual cat, I suppose. For example, Lionblaze is fine with him now while Jayfeather still despises him. Breezepelt apologizing to Poppyfrost and being forgiven is probably never going to happen although I'm desperately wanting it to because she deserves an apology.
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