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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 28, 2021 19:27:23 GMT -5
I don't think Rowanstar deserves to be on this list. He didn't do nearly half as bad things as these other leaders
It's honestly hard to choose. I chose Leopardstar, but man...I think all of them are equal except Raggedstar and then below him Rowanstar (the most innocent of the cats on this list)
Edit: I also can't believe someone would vote for him? Being ineffective is not the same as allowing your deputy killed, along with 3 other cats starved. Onestar...doing everything Onestar did. Oakstar banishing KITS. Clear Sky....just...
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Post by Aqua on May 28, 2021 19:35:12 GMT -5
Leopardstar. Even though the others did very shitty things, all of them at least ruler their clan, but I don't think it's fair to add Oakstar because we only know him for kicking out Mapleshade more than his leadership. We don't have enough evidence on whether he's a good leader or not.
Leopardstar, however, put her entire Clan in danger because she "fell in love" with Tigerstar and didn't help her deputy when he was attacked by Blackfoot. She indirectly traumatized Feathertail, and affected all the clans when she refused to share the lake water in Omen of the Stars. She acted "tough" to save her own pride; that's how all of her "mistakes" happen: because of her pride. I know she apologized to Feathertail, and I know she saw Mistystar as her daughter, and yes, I know she saw she was wrong about the clans becoming together about the whole Tigerstar thing, but she still affected many lives. Cats died because of her. And it took her a long damn time to apologize to others who needed to hear her apology as well. "there wasn't a right time" my ass. There's never going to be a right time to say something, just say it and it would've made Feathertail happier sooner. Leopardstar is a bitch.
I know Rowanstar had many, many mistakes of his own, but Moonblazer reminded me that he cared about his clan, and there's plenty of evidence in the books that shows. I still don't like him at all, I don't think he's leader material, but he's not one of their worst. Rowanstar is just an asshole. There's been worse leaders than him but I still don't think he was the best lol.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 28, 2021 19:42:11 GMT -5
Leopardstar selling her deputy and apprentices to be murdered and making a slave of Riverclan will always put her up the highest on these lists. At least the others didn't welcome evil with open arms.
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Post by Fireleap on May 28, 2021 19:45:41 GMT -5
Raggedstar was completely incompetent and blinded by his love of Brokenstar.
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Post by Brindlefern on May 28, 2021 19:46:07 GMT -5
Leopardstar AND Onestar are up there for me.
Seconding the "Rowanstar does not deserve to be on this list" crowd too.
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Post by Aqua on May 28, 2021 19:46:59 GMT -5
I don't think Rowanstar deserves to be on this list. He didn't do nearly half as bad things as these other leaders It's honestly hard to choose. I chose Leopardstar, but man...I think all of them are equal except Raggedstar and then below him Rowanstar (the most innocent of the cats on this list) Edit: I also can't believe someone would vote for him? Being ineffective is not the same as allowing your deputy killed, along with 3 other cats starved. Onestar...doing everything Onestar did. Oakstar banishing KITS. Clear Sky....just... I don't think he does either. Rowanstar was an asshole about many things and was prideful, but it's nowhere near as bad as what Leopardstar has done. Heck, even SKYSTAR obviously cared about his clan, showed multiple times, and we don't have enough information on Oakstar as a leader either; we only know him for kicking out Mapleshade, and people are prolly going to be biased and pick him BECAUSE of that. I don't think it's really fair to compare all of the leaders. Leopardstar is truly the worst one in my eyes. She traumatized many cats, allowed several to die, all because she "fell in love" with Tigerstar. I really think she's one of the few cats who should've gone to the Dark Forest tbh, she's just... horrible.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 28, 2021 19:50:49 GMT -5
I don't think Rowanstar deserves to be on this list. He didn't do nearly half as bad things as these other leaders It's honestly hard to choose. I chose Leopardstar, but man...I think all of them are equal except Raggedstar and then below him Rowanstar (the most innocent of the cats on this list) Edit: I also can't believe someone would vote for him? Being ineffective is not the same as allowing your deputy killed, along with 3 other cats starved. Onestar...doing everything Onestar did. Oakstar banishing KITS. Clear Sky....just... I don't think he does either. Rowanstar was an asshole about many things and was prideful, but it's nowhere near as bad as what Leopardstar has done. Heck, even SKYSTAR obviously cared about his clan, showed multiple times, and we don't have enough information on Oakstar as a leader either; we only know him for kicking out Mapleshade, and people are prolly going to be biased and pick him BECAUSE of that. I don't think it's really fair to compare all of the leaders. Leopardstar is truly the worst one in my eyes. She traumatized many cats, allowed several to die, all because she "fell in love" with Tigerstar. I really think she's one of the few cats who should've gone to the Dark Forest tbh, she's just... horrible. Right? Rowanstar wasn't super effective but he also got a lot of unnecessary shit put on his plate + the Erins preferring Tigerjesus. Rowanstar would have never stood by to let his cats get murdered. He literally died protecting Tawnypelt AND the kits of a cat who betrayed him. He's not perfect, but I think he has a good heart and has some honor. Onestar? No honor. Leopardstar? Prideful and has led to death.
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Post by Moonblazer on May 28, 2021 20:34:28 GMT -5
I think it’s just the wording. Unqualified leader would suit Rowanstar sure, but in terms of him being a “Worst Leader” option compared to cats like Leopardstar or murderous leaders is a vast difference, ye. I mean, you can keep him up there because I know some people will see him as the spawn of satan for some reason...for...for not wanting Shadowclan to be violent towards other clans...and uh...for not approving of kidnapping of Twigpaw when he was sick and??? wanting his clanmates to voice their complaints at a gathering civilly instead of going to War with all of Windclan for Onestar’s actions alone and...actually supporting Skyclan and exclaiming that they belong at the lake under Starclan’s will while other cats wanted to invade them and drive them out...and for uh. Protecting and dying for kits of a cat who betrayed him without a second thought and...and uh. Telling Tawnypelt not to hate the clanmates that drove him to ruin and hated his guts and that he forgave them a long time ago and that he basically still loves them all and...
Yeah no he’s uh. Man he’s really a bad dude huh he totally was like. Power hungry and willfully took orders from loners and cats like Tigerstar and let his deputy get slaughtered or let a clan suffer from withholding herbs or was awful to Tawnypelt when they were mates or made kits into child soldiers.
In all seriousness, of this list, probably gotta go with Raggedstar or Onestar. I like Onestar’s character and complexity, but he just really was not meant for leadership and did some crummy stuff with that leadership.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 28, 2021 20:55:44 GMT -5
I voted for Onestar.
We don’t know enough about Oakstar, I don’t think. We just know he banishes Mapleshade and her kits and his Twolegplace raid later on. He’s made some bad decisions clearly, but no cat is perfect. I like to believe he was a quite new leader around the time of MV, especially since he lives for a good while. He must’ve been really old when he died. He had to have learned from his bad choices and became a much wiser leader once he got older.
Raggedstar was a bad leader, but not as bad as some of the others. He was blinded by his love for his son. He made him deputy and regretted it horribly later on. Not as bad as some of the others, obviously. This has nothing to do with his leadership, but he was horrible to Yellowfang.
Rowanstar wasn’t “bad” per say, he just wasn’t fit for the job. He struggled with controlling his Clan, and he paid the price.
Onestar was horrible. He ended up exactly like Tallstar didn’t want him to when he chose him over Mudclaw. He is especially horrible later on in his leadership, ESPECIALLY in AVoS. I was honestly happy when he died.
Leopardstar and I have a mixed relationship. She was horrible at the start of her leadership, allowing Tigerstar to control her Clan as they formed TigerClan. She let her own deputy get killed and didn’t do anything to stand up against Tigerstar and the ShadowClan cats. She becomes a quite honorable leader not long after, redeeming herself, but she was always a bit fiesty. She was a nuisance in TFA but that was probably because she was in the process of dying.
I don’t remember much about TNP’s Stoneteller. I just remember not liking him that much lol.
Skystar was a horrible leader early on in his leadership (aka the entirety of Dawn of the Clans), but we don’t know much about the rest of his leadership. He might’ve grown up a lot as he aged and became a wiser and more experienced leader. He was young and brash early on and made a lot of mistakes, but he might’ve learned from a lot of them.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 28, 2021 21:06:07 GMT -5
Yeah I don’t think Rowan or Oak should be on here.
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#FF55A3
Name Colour
Apricity
Bravelands is too slept on.
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Post by Apricity on May 28, 2021 21:26:09 GMT -5
I'm having trouble choosing between Stoneteller and Leopardstar. Stoneteller was willing to let the tribe he was tasked to lead be destroyed rather than adapt. But I guess Leopardstar since she more actively was tearing her Clan apart? I don't know. Edit: I'll go with Stoneteller because at least Leopardstar tried to be decent later.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on May 29, 2021 16:16:33 GMT -5
Onestar. Because even after throwing his friendship with Firestar away to become a better leader, he still sucked.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on May 29, 2021 17:27:41 GMT -5
I voted for Stoneteller because the old coot was so stubborn that he'd rather let his tribe be destroyed rather than adapt to their new situation. I wasn't sad at all when he died because he put so many innocent lives at risk because of his clinging onto the old ways. Leopardstar is a very close second though.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on May 30, 2021 7:50:39 GMT -5
1. Stoneteller 2. Onestar 3. Leopardstar 4. Raggedstar
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 30, 2021 12:51:39 GMT -5
Technically Stoneteller, but if we're not counting him then Onestar. But personally imo Rowanstar would be right after him as well, since the three of them are honestly just the worst kind of leaders I've ever seen. Stoneteller was petty, xenophobic, and down right constantly hostile toward the Clan cats. He kidnapped then later blamed Storm for other cat's deaths. Threatened his own cats not to come back until they killed a bloody mountain lion. Booted Brook and Storm the first chance he got. And was so ignorant and stuck in his ways that he was willing to die without choosing a successor, and let his tribe die out too because they were too "modernized". Onestar because he was horrible hostile, just straight up unnecessary, just so he could prove a point. He had zero credentials or right to leadership, but still willing rode Firestar's coattails. Then turns around and spits on their friendship, and Tallstar's dying wish by causing an all out war between WindRiver and ThunderShadow. Dude was stealing prey just to peeve off ThunderClan, and then refused to own up to it when confronted. Had the audacity to attack a clan in the middle of the night, absolutely cowardly, then gets worse when he tries to leave another clan to die off from sickness. He endangered kits, elders, and queens, but didn't care because he didn't want to deal with his son whom he abandoned moons before because he was so scared of what WindClan would think of him for breaking the code. Rowanstar, out of the three is the least horrible but still incompetent, he was too stubborn to ask for help from other clans when taking care of badgers and hostile kittypets during the floods. Letting his pride get the better of him over trying to protect his cats, and he was utterly ungrateful afterward despite Dustpelt dying for the cause. He didn't know how to keep his own cats in line, one got snatched up by an owl? Oh well shrug it off, no big deal, we have plenty of other cats in this overpopulated group. But oh no, he needed more, dude was gung ho about taking a kit and separating her from the only family she had so he and his clan could get that glory he wanted. She ended up only being a tool and when the apprentices rebelled he tossed her out she was nothing. He didn't listen to his warriors, belittled his apprentices, and let rules be broken and unpunished. He was absolutely a garbage fire when it comes to incompetent leaders.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 30, 2021 17:11:37 GMT -5
Leopardstar selling her deputy and apprentices to be murdered and making a slave of Riverclan will always put her up the highest on these lists. At least the others didn't welcome evil with open arms. That was still just a one-time thing. Onestar was consistently terrible throughout his entire leadership, masterminding battles, spewing insults, supporting a traitor, fleeing a battle and depriving innocents of a cure I don't know how murdering your own deputy and two apprentices can be brushed off as a "one time thing". Imagine that kind of defense in court; "Yes, I did lead to the murder of someone who trusted me and signed away the lives of two young apprentices, but you know, it only happened once, so is it really that bad?". When it's a crime so foul and horrific, how can it possibly be excused by virtue of it just happening one time? But even if we use this criteria, she is STILL on par with Onestar. Indeed, the very same crimes you stick to Onestar, she also did. Masterminding battles: She literally conspired with Onestar in his fight against Thunderclan, she is no less guilty of that. Supporting a traitor: Check, she harbored Tigerstar and let Riverclan become his slave. I'm pretty sure she actually did FAR more to support traitors than Onestar did (which traitor did he ever support?) Fleeing a battle: Yep, she did that too, when Scourge iced Tigerstar she immediately fled the field with her tail between her legs despite being the acting leader. Depriving innocents of a cure: She didn't deprive cats of a cure, but she DID deprive them of water in OOTS and tried to hoard the lake. She also was the last holdout in the forest to leave because the others didn't matter to her. Spewing insults: You got me there, Leopardstar isn't as loud as Onestar. But between Onestar having a big mouth and Leopardstar killing her deputy and two apprentices, well, I think it's incredibly easy to judge who was morally worse given all of their other actions are the same if not Leopardstar doing worse. Furthermore, at the very least one can attempt to justify Onestar's actions by saying that at least they benefitted his own clan. Leopardstar on the other hand began her tenure by throwing Riverclan to the dogs. Every single seriously bad thing Onestar did, she did too but worse sometimes. I will say though, I forgot Stoneteller throwing cats out to fight a mountain lion. That might well be on par with Leopardstar's Tigerclan tenure.
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