|
Post by Aqua on May 25, 2021 11:31:07 GMT -5
If someone is breaking the code because of a forbidden love issue, do they deserve to be punished or should their clans let them decide to go where they want to? Leafpool, I feel, took it the hardest. She made a mistake and fell for Crowfeather, and she lost her status for a long time and her own daughter wanted her to die. I know she was wrong to lie to the clan, but I can't help but feel sorry for her.
I guess the same case goes for Mapleshade. I don't like her at all because of her stupidity, but Oakstar took it too far when he banished her and the kits.
The only one I feel who was only mildly punished was maybe Dovewing, and that's only because she ran off so she got pretty lucky and had the opportunity to return to her clan, but she chose ShadowClan and they were mad at her for it and pretty much said she wasn't welcome in ThunderClan anymore.
Crowfeather is reminded time and time again about going out with Leafpool and he was indirectly punished by having a crappy family that was brought up upon himself, and Nightcloud's behavior doesn't exactly help either. He was also exiled because Onestar lost patience with him.
Most of them had their own consequences to face, but do any of them really deserve it? Because I don't see anything wrong with having an affection for another cat, and I guess I feel so strongly about forbidden love because I don't like how it's treated as a crime to care about someone else. I guess I support forbidden love more than most people. The drama is annoying but I don't see anything wrong with cats getting attached to one another and caring about them, and a lot of these cats are punished for caring about another cat in a different clan. It's too harsh, imo. It's why I want this rule gone, look at Mapleshade, she killed several cats because she broke the warrior code and ruined many other lives, if Oakstar kept her and the kits things would not have turned out bad for her. Everyone gets what they want anyway, and their clans move on, and nobody cares anymore after a couple of seasons pass. Imo, the forbidden love rule needs to go.
|
|
|
Post by Mothdapple on May 25, 2021 11:38:15 GMT -5
No. They should be free to love who they want to, regardless of Clan. It’s not something they can help easily. They could have self-control, but it’s hard to when it comes to love.
In the future, I want cats to be able to freely choose which Clan they want to be in based off lifestyle interests, favorite fresh-kill, friendships, or family.
These characters should be free to love who they want without restrictions, but while the rule is in place, they must know the risk and be willing to accept the possible consequences that comes with it, no matter how unfair it can be.
|
|
|
Post by Aqua on May 25, 2021 11:55:30 GMT -5
No. They should be free to love who they want to, regardless of Clan. It’s not something they can help easily. They could have self-control, but it’s hard to when it comes to love. In the future, I want cats to be able to freely choose which Clan they want to be in based off lifestyle interests, favorite fresh-kill, friendships, or family. These characters should be free to love who they want without restrictions, but while the rule is in place, they must know the risk and be willing to accept the possible consequences that comes with it, no matter how unfair it can be. I feel you. I'm tired of these cats being treated like crap because they fell in love. I understand Leafpool's case because she had many responsibilities as a medicine cat, but for cases like Dovewing and Crowfeather shouldn't have to deal with so much hostility for what they've done. You can tell in the books that Dove really cares about Tiger, and Crow really loved Leaf. In fact, he loved her so much and he was so hurt of her abandoning him that he closed his heart and stopped caring about others because he was so scared of getting hurt again. It makes me pity him. Leaf had some of the harsher ones with her own daughter wanting her to die, but I still don't think she deserved this treatment for being immature. She really wasn't that bad either, at least imo. So many other cats have done worse crimes, but Leaf is treated as some terrible monster for caring about Crowfeather and it just makes me feel so uncomfortable. Hollyleaf was imagining her own mother into a red pulp from a mouse because she hated her for breaking the code, like... jfc. A lot of these cats are sweethearts, even Crowfeather has his own soft side (I'm by all means not calling him a precious boy though lol) especially Leafpool herself, so it rubs me the wrong way when they're treated like crap over a mistake they made.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 25, 2021 12:08:09 GMT -5
First and foremost, yes. Cats should be punished for breaking the code, that's simple enough. The first code is there for a reason, because of loyalty. If cats are willing to break that rule it means they're willing to put their own selfish desires before the code and their clans. When you live in a unit, you live by those rules, it ensures your safety and survival, and also an honest way to live. Living noble lives and protecting those you care about and your way of life in general. But when you break that trust, go behind your clanmate's backs, and tip the balance of order in a clan, it becomes an issue. Whereas I do defend Mapleshade, I'm also not saying she still shouldn't be punished. I acknowledged she broke the code, and she lied, but the punishment he was given was too big for the deed, and the accusations thrown at her in the trial was based off bias hatred for the father. She never had a chance to defend herself in general. Her kits were innocent, and whereas Oakstar had a right to punish them, to exile them when night was coming and a flood, was absolutely horrendous and also breaks the 12th code. Even if you break the code, one should still be allowed leniency and a fair trial, and Mapleshade got neither. In the end, her kits and she should have been safely escorted to RiverClan, just like Dovewing and her kits were, but they weren't, and they all paid the price. On the other hand, Leafpool losing her status as a medicine cat is a suitable punishment, despite it being self-inflicted, basically her stepping down herself, I think Firestar must have thought it was a fair enough punishment as well. But at the same time she should not have received her ranking back, she did after all break two codes, not just one. Jayfeather could have easily just train another apprentice, and Leafpool should have tried harder to be a warrior, at least have basic skills as Cinderpelt taught her. The fact that medicine cats aren't able to do basic things like hunt or defend themselves nowadays (like Shadowsight) is quite pathetic imo. Squirrelflight also should have been punished for lying alongside her sister, yes she and Bramble broke up and he shouldn't have forgiven her tbh, but other than that and her adopted children's scorn, she never got an official punishment compared to Leafpool. She should have been reduced to apprentice duties for a few moons, and honestly shouldn't have been promoted to deputy at the end of the arc. Likewise, Crowfeather wasn't officially punished, and when he was exiled it was for different reasons, not what happened back at the gathering reveal. I think that if a cat breaks a code as severe as the 1st one, then they should not be eligible as a deputy/leader canindate. And this should especially be the case for cats like Tigerheart, who practically got their cake and ate it too. I feel that if cats are more honest, and open about wanting to switch clans to be with the one they love, then this should be a decision that is done before kits get involved or before they get caught. They also need to be sure about that decision and realize that leaving does indeed make them a traitor. Unless they have special circumstances like Twig and Violet, they have no right to return to the clan that they betrayed. Something I wish Dovewing would have done, but she didn't. I don't think it's wrong to have feelings for another cat, but it's acting on those feelings that cause issues. One shouldn't lie and go behind their clanmates' back and drag others into foolish situation just because of their idiotic decisions. Cats need to understand that if they're going to break the code then they better have a "ride or die" mate that they're willing to switch allegiances for, and are ready to possibly fight their own kin and friends from their birthclan one day.
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 25, 2021 13:38:05 GMT -5
the "punishment" should be forcing them to decide (as a couple) who will move to who's clan. one of them should have to committ to it 100% and move clans right then and there and be honest to their leaders.
in an AU i did for leaf x crow, leafpool had enough time to train one of daisy's kits. when leafpool leaves for windclan to give birth, berrypaw finishes his training with brightheart, sandstorm, and starclan guides. leafpool gives birth in windclan and takes a new oath of loyalty for windclan, for herself and her kits.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on May 25, 2021 19:18:58 GMT -5
the "punishment" should be forcing them to decide (as a couple) who will move to who's clan. one of them should have to committ to it 100% and move clans right then and there and be honest to their leaders. in an AU i did for leaf x crow, leafpool had enough time to train one of daisy's kits. when leafpool leaves for windclan to give birth, berrypaw finishes his training with brightheart, sandstorm, and starclan guides. leafpool gives birth in windclan and takes a new oath of loyalty for windclan, for herself and her kits. I'd prefer this. Honestly? I think I would have moved Crowfeather to Thunderclan though. But yeah. I don't believe in like...official "bad" punishments for doing something as innocent as falling in love
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on May 25, 2021 20:59:51 GMT -5
I quite like how the punishments turned out. Leafpool obviously took the hardest, and Mapleshade too. Her own daughter was imaging of killing her (Killing the mouse while thinking about her mother and how she loathed her was creepy tbh) and actually tried to kill her with deathberries (Which caused the death of her friend oof), and how her sister was shunned together, and how her kits hated her and pointedly turned their backs on her, and literally everyone being uncomfortable and awkward and angry around her is terrible. Honestly, if I were her, I would've broken down.
She couldn't control who she fell in love with, or if she fell in love in the first place. Leafpool got tons of emotional punishments. She left Crowfeather because she was too loyal and wanted to serve her Clan with her position, and she lost it, along with the trust. Her kits, whom she loved so much, wanted her to die and suffer.
|
|
|
Post by MadameDelune on May 25, 2021 22:49:59 GMT -5
Punish them
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on May 26, 2021 0:10:15 GMT -5
Also to be more clear, I'm biased.
I think the concept of forbidden love is ridiculous in this series and I think that should be gotten rid of in the code. Mapleshade's punishment? Over the top.
|
|
|
Post by Ivyfalcon on May 26, 2021 9:52:08 GMT -5
(Which caused the death of her friend oof) Who are you talking about here? I keep trying to remember but I honestly can’t and I’m curious.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 11:47:41 GMT -5
Ivyfalcon Honeyfern? I think
|
|
|
Post by Mothdapple on May 26, 2021 12:07:10 GMT -5
Not sure about that. Honeyfern’s death happened before the deathberries were stored. She was killed off for there to be an excuse as to why deathberries were in camp and were so accessible, as they were laid out to kill any more venomous snakes.
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on May 27, 2021 5:44:31 GMT -5
Not sure about that. Honeyfern’s death happened before the deathberries were stored. She was killed off for there to be an excuse as to why deathberries were in camp and were so accessible, as they were laid out to kill any more venomous snakes. God I got confused. Yeah, I actually meant Honeyfern
|
|