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Post by cygna on May 23, 2021 13:36:32 GMT -5
I don't want to be that person stuck in the past and unable to appreciate the present but I can't help but feel the authors stopped trying.
For one I fell like all the characters and relationships are ones I've already seen with slight differences. Briarlight and Cinderpelt have very similar stories about how they can find value outside of the duties of a warrior. Rootspring falls in love with Bristlefrost for the same reasons Graystipe falls in love with Silverstream. They were saved from a certain watery death by a pretty she-cat.
Also deaths have like no impact anymore. Bristlefrost sees her mentor's dead body and is like "Oh no, Anyway", whereas Firestar shows genuine devestation when Bluestar dies.
And the characters are just bland good guys now. What happened to cats like Longtail, Blackstar, & Hollyleaf.
Does anyone else feel this way?
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Post by MadameDelune on May 23, 2021 13:54:32 GMT -5
Yeah the writing has gotten so bad I cannot get myself to read the current arc no matter how many times I’ve tried. And believe me I’ve tried. I’ve got all the books in my room rn
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Post by Snowfire on May 23, 2021 14:08:27 GMT -5
It has been a while having iconic moments and characters like TPB, I have seen this video that explains this. In Rising Storm, they managed to make Yellowfang's death very emotional by talking about the moments Fireheart had with her and how that impacted him, as well as the readers, but in TBC, most deaths aren't as emotional. Like Stemleaf for example, it was only talked about for a few sentences and that's it, and the majority of the deaths aren't mentioned again and aren't impactful to the characters besides Spotfur and Daisy with two of her kits.
So I believe there isn't that much heart put into the series, mainly the characters and their emotions. Plotwise, it is interesting, but they could've put in a lot more effort with the characters, especially the newer ones, and the Erins would have to learn how to let go of their old.
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Post by Aqua on May 23, 2021 14:11:07 GMT -5
Yes. They keep using the older characters like Squirrelflight and making the current arc revolving around her, and some of the newer characters like Shadowsight are just... weird? I've lost interest in this series. I might read the 8th arc, but I really don't care for warriors much anymore, although talking about the characters is still fun.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 23, 2021 14:17:02 GMT -5
Yes. I think the Erins need to let go of older characters such as Squirrel, Bramble, Lion, Jay, etc. and move on to new concepts and ideas. The Broken Code has been interesting but the whole Ashfur thing just feels like a continuation from Power of Three and I hate that aspect. They need to learn to let go of the old and move on to new, interesting ideas. There’s so many unique things that can be done with the Warriors formula but they keep repeating similar things. It’s annoying.
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Post by Showers on May 23, 2021 14:44:24 GMT -5
feels like pokemon
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on May 23, 2021 15:34:27 GMT -5
Not necessarily but the writing has certainly become less structured and engaging, to be honest.
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Post by Brindlefern on May 23, 2021 15:45:16 GMT -5
On the contrary it's became more interesting, at least storywise with TBC.
I wouldn't blame the interest with the writing by linking it to how poorly things like shipping and death are handled in books. In the case of character stories being "unoriginal" (Briar and Cinder, BristleRoot and GraySilver being similar in experience) that's just a personal matter, it's not unlikely to have someone or someones go through the same thing irl and the same can be said in books afterall. Does it get tiresome after doing it over and over again? Well yes, but not for the reasons you described.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on May 23, 2021 17:52:32 GMT -5
I'd say that the Erin's ideas have gotten better, but the way they're holding onto the old characters is really holding them back.
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Post by Thunderheart57 on May 23, 2021 19:14:35 GMT -5
As I haven’t read TBC, I cannot compare it to the previous arcs I read. I think the main cause on why Warriors is becoming less interesting and engaging as a whole is partially because of the way characters are written and how the plots seem to keep going in circles. I honestly feel that the series had the potential to try something different and unique with each arc and the characters. The lore they built up over the years is great. There were parts of it that I wanted to see fleshed out more such as the ancient timeline and the Tribe. I feel that if more time was given to make sure that they were built up and fleshed out even more, it would have saved the bits of OotS or even Dawn of the Clans that didn’t get proper development.
The fact that the plots keep leaning on Firestar’s, Tigerstar’s, and now, Hawkwing’s, bloodlines is getting tiresome at this point. Currently, I feel this is limiting the team in terms of stories they could be telling. I wish we had Stormfur’s, Tawnypelt’s, and Crowfeather’s perspectives throughout in TNP series to keep things fresh and exciting. Maybe POT and OotS would have been different if the third and fourth cats were from the other Clans or even a rogue to spice the plot up.
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Post by Rainsplash on May 23, 2021 19:21:50 GMT -5
The deaths don't give that much impact, and the characters are rather blander.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 23, 2021 19:28:39 GMT -5
protags become generic and boring. the writers rely too much on previous arc characters/protags (this problem is bigger in TBC than other recent books. AVOS barely had this problem). protags don't have friends, thus they dont feel like real people to me. background cats become faceless, and there's so many of them that it's become a huge huge problem over time. the clans feel empty despite being over populated as a result. the reason why i focus so much clan population is because they kill the young cats and not the old. relying on the past means new stuff is bland and boring and cliche, etc. and it's only gotten more noticeable.
edit: forgot to add. i agree with the comment above. protags dont mourn background cat deaths (bristlefrost didnt give two craps that her mentor died). there's no on screen platonic relationships so it feels like no one cares about anyone unless they're mates or direct relatives (even then, sibling relationships are so generic too. think of shadowsight's generic and boring nice sisters....they're a dime a dozen for protags to have now).
they retcon past lore to make up "new plots," but TBC shows us they're starting to rely on years old plots and small things, that should have been left alone.
the new material is boring and anger inducing.
i'd rather stick with SE's, novellas, and mangas at this point.
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Post by kells on May 23, 2021 23:41:34 GMT -5
Alderheart held barely any purpose in AVoS, Violet/Twig's dynamic was much like Dove/Ivy's. ThunderClan is less full of new striking personalities than it is soulless husks that simply exist in allegiances. Everything orbits around whatever crumb of drama happens to be left over from previous arcs.
Warriors has no sense of mortality. There is literally a cat who has nearly drowned, fallen off a bridge, ate deathberries and got attacked by two experienced warriors and is still kicking. Graystripe and Mistystar are literally walking fossils. What happened to five year old cats being called senior warriors? Bluestar was what, six years old when she died? And only half of the cats from her generation were alive when she died.
Things like Ashfur's powers and Darktail are just... crushed into the plot. What makes Ashfur so special that he was desperate enough to successfully escape the Dark Forest, possess another cat's body and control other spirits when cats like Mapleshade (someone whose been plaguing the Clans for literal generations) haven't?
The amount of OOC that is forced into the books with no regards to any character. Ugh.
Everything in the series feels like an object or tool that is only meant to push a plot forward. A lot of essence is just gone, and reading some of these books, it doesn't even sound like anyone knows what character they're writing.
Dawn of the Clans was the last good arc imo. Notable characters, and while it sucked that the plot was filled with so much drama we didn't even see the actual formation of the Clans, there was still consequence, mortality and a memorable cast. After that it nosedived into a OotS rehash with a little unnecessary DoveTiger drama sprinkled on the side, and the bodysnatching, evil afterlife-overlord incel of a villain we have in this arc.
I'm looking forward to A Starless Clan. I can only hope that it'll be a breath of fresh air from these last few arcs, and maybe we'll see some interesting after-effects from this arc. And I'm so eager to read about Frostpaw's POV. I really hope she doesn't get downgraded to a camera for Mothwing drama...
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on May 24, 2021 3:29:00 GMT -5
No, not really. I think Warriors is becoming more interesting as the books go on.
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Post by Skypaw13 on May 24, 2021 13:14:23 GMT -5
Absolutely. Though I think it's mostly to do with how dragged on the series is. It really should have ended with either OotS or DotC, or at least had a significant time-skip rather than continuing. That's the primary reason things get stale.
After that, there's all the structural and line-level writing problems other people have pointed out. It doesn't matter how good an idea is (which is why I disagree with everyone saying TBC's plot makes it interesting), if you can't write it well, people are going to be bored. I literally can't bring myself to pick up Darkness Within; the arc has introduced good ideas, but they're executed so poorly that I have no interest remaining. Plus the near-total lack of character work turns me off completely.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 24, 2021 13:19:24 GMT -5
The characters have tbh. I'm kinda tired of reading about typical goodie-two shoe characters nowadays. When are we getting a villain arc protagonist that actually is and stays a villain for an actual good reason?
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Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on May 24, 2021 13:28:19 GMT -5
Too many bad things are happening to this one generation of cats. Characters like Squirrelflight have only known disaster after disaster. They never get a break
It makes the clans look like they're a terrible place to live in
It would be better if the time skips between series were much larger, so that all these poor cats can get a break and experience some peace and normalcy
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Post by ~Skyblaze~ on May 24, 2021 16:26:36 GMT -5
I feel like the biggest thing holding back the series right now is the overattachment to old characters. There's a huge wealth of new characters in ThunderClan for us to see develop, but with how hard the stories are clinging to what's happening with the older generations, they've been reduced to just names for the sake of saying "new kits are being born". I was actually really interested to get to know Flipclaw in Graystripe's Vow, however little we got, because it was a chance to meet one of these new young cats, beyond the "new generation is all just disrespectful rebellious upstarts" narrative we keep seeming to get.
Filter out the old cats. There's absolutely zero reason why any cats from TPB should still be alive, let alone someone like Mistystar, who was already a full grown warrior when Firestar came into the Clan. Filter through the allegiances. We still have leaders from TNP running around.
And the biggest thing of all is the plotlines. In previous arcs, it felt as if the protagonist(s) of the arc were involved in the arc. The arc was about them. In TBC, the current protagonists feel just like walking monitors. Why did we need yet another story about Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight? They had their story, 6 arcs ago! TPB really felt like it was about Firestar's personal story. TNP about Brambleclaw&Co, and POT about the three. The newer arcs' stories are feeling more and more impersonal to the characters touted as the protagonists, and they just feel like devices to rehash characters who have been done to death.
The long and short of it is we need a purge. I'm tired of the TNP crew's monopoly on leadership/deputyship. Start getting Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Crowfeather, etc out of here. I'm tired of relics like Mistystar and Leafstar still running around for no reason. Get new leadership into the Clans, build actual stories centered around the current protagonists rather than yet another TNP/POT/OOTS drama plot, and let us actually meet and understand the younger generation of the Clans. We need characters back, not plot devices with tails.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 22:59:29 GMT -5
I think so yes. In the earlier arcs, just about every character had at least one thing you could say about their personality. But now? Now, most of the cats are just blank faces in a clan if Leafshade or Honeyfur straight up killed like Brackenfur or something, I wouldn't even be surprised, because these cats have no personality. They might have gotten some in Spotfur's Rebellion, but I'm just not into the books that much anymore to read it. Another thing is that they won't let go of old characters, and even new characters feel like rehashes of old characters. Like Twigbranch and Violetshine, why did they have to be two sisters just like Leafpool and Squirrelflight and Ivypool and Dovewing? I would really like to see an arc where there are a brother and a sister with a storyline, like you have them, but they're never really the center focus like sister sister or brother brother plots, and I would like it to be a CLOSE bond with no fighting. Which....we really need a close brother brother bond with no fighting. Thought that might have happened in Winds of Change, but NO. I still really like this series though, and I'm looking forward to arc 8, I just wish WindClan could have gotten something instead of stupid ShadowClan again.
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Bisexual
embertuft333
Sol was one of the best villains. Change my mind.
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Post by embertuft333 on May 25, 2021 14:13:21 GMT -5
I think this is an unpopular opinion, but deep down, for me, they always have. When I stepped back and took a glance at the entire picture, I figured out that the writing in the books is actually kind of bad. It´s a shame that we celebrate when the book has one or two mistakes (not my words). Along with the fact the authors do not even READ eachothers books. The only reason I still read them is that I want to know how the basic plot continues, and I want to be able to keep up with the fandom, because even after drakinator, I still love it.
Ps: How to I create threads? I forgot, and I wanted to ask a similar question.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on May 25, 2021 17:19:37 GMT -5
I think this is an unpopular opinion, but deep down, for me, they always have. When I stepped back and took a glance at the entire picture, I figured out that the writing in the books is actually kind of bad. It´s a shame that we celebrate when the book has one or two mistakes (not my words). Along with the fact the authors do not even READ eachothers books. The only reason I still read them is that I want to know how the basic plot continues, and I want to be able to keep up with the fandom, because even after drakinator, I still love it. Ps: How to I create threads? I forgot, and I wanted to ask a similar question. You can create threads if you have more than 5 posts.
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