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Post by cygna on May 20, 2021 13:06:35 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think she needed to.
While it’s tragic that two sisters who one loved each other more than all else grew apart I think they should live their lives separately with the cats who now love them.
I understand why Ivypool was mad at Dovewing I think I would be mad too if my sister chose some boy that’s garbage over me and our family.
Dovewing made the right choice for her kits but she made all the wrong choices before that. Ivypool and Dovewing are both better off apart not causing each other more pain than that which has already been inflicted.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on May 20, 2021 13:10:21 GMT -5
I think Ivypool should forgive Dovewing. Dovewing was following her heart and would have been unhappy in ThunderClan especially with Bumblestripe around. A great part of loving your friend/sibling is letting them go and being free to make their own choices.
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Post by Aqua on May 20, 2021 13:59:18 GMT -5
Honestly? I feel like a lot of cats should have been there for Dovewing when she tried to talk to someone. She really did try to tell Ivypool and Tigerheart about her fears in Tigerheart's Shadow, and Ivypool was either angry with her, or Tigerheart was an idiot and didn't know how to support his mate. And because nobody wanted to listen to Dovewing, or didn't hear her out, she decided to make her own choice to run off.
I don't think she did the right thing, obviously, but I can't really blame her for this poor choice. Dovewing never really knew how to make the more logical choices, she needed support, and she has always been a little bit of a moron, so her running off makes sense and isn't really out of character. I'm more angry with the writers not handling the situation better. I feel like Ivypool, Tigerheart, and Dovewing all should have had a secret meeting to talk about her, about what they think is best for her and her safety, and allow Dovewing to make her own choice in the end.
Ivypool is not obligated to forgive Dovewing, since she ditched her family, but I feel like she wasn't always there for her either. I'll ignore what she did as a paw, but in AVoS, she never tried to understand Dovewing's feelings. Nobody talked in AVoS; she either called her sister stupid or tried to separate Tigerheart and Dovewing while they were quick to go on patrol together to find Twigbranch's mother.
And this upsets me. Because Dovewing and Ivypool talked in NW. To me, this shows that they both have the maturity to talk their problems and understand each other, but the writers forced the problems between the two and brought Tigerheart back.
Dovewing tried to move on. She really did. But Tigerheart didn't let her, which is really gross and disturbing on its own. I don't remember much of Tigerheart's side, but I know Dovewing tried to move on from him. She was always looking away from him, or she tried to use Bumblestripe to get over Tigerheart. Was it an unfair choice for Bumblestripe? Well, yeah. I don't think he deserved to be treated the way he was, but then he got all nasty with her later in the books... so...
But as I was saying earlier, Tigerheart never allowed Dovewing to move on. Rereading the series.... he's creepy. He's really creepy. Tigerheart took advantage of Dovepaw's trust for the catmint and he never took her feelings seriously. I think Tigerheart saw Dovewing as his stress ball, someone to play with to escape the stress from his clan and the Dark Forest. He never respected Dovewing. When she tried to tell him about her powers, he thought they were "cool" and he wasn't there for her. Instead, he was thinking for himself, hoping they'd be together even after the battle, and this was when Dovewing realized he was a douche. Tigerheart is very weird. They never had a serious relationship, nothing like Ivy x Fern, Cinder x Lion, or any more mature couples of both mates properly talking to one another. Tigerheart is almost never there for Dovewing, and disappointed her time and time again. And something else I noticed? Dovewing is always the first one to show affection for Tigerheart. She always tells him meaningful things, how much she loves him, how she forgave him for not being there for her, and apologizes for the things she does wrong. When does Tigerheart ever do this for her? Never, from what I recall. Dovewing is always the first one to really show that she truly loves him, and she always sees the best in him despite everything he does to her. It... really is a pity that it all comes down to her leaving her clan for his sake. And she did this for the kittens and Tigerheart.
Dovewing has always sacrificed everything for Tigerheart, while Tigerheart did nothing for her and disappointed her time and time again. I understand why Ivypool doesn't like him at all, and I can't really blame her either. However, I still believe both sisters had a role to play for their fallout, not just Tigerheart.
Ivypool has been very harsh to Dovewing since she joined the Dark Forest. People call it "blunt", but Dovewing has always been sensitive, and people won't listen to you if you're yelling at them. Ivypool has always been too tough with Dovewing, and it really does disturb me how people think this behavior is okay just because Dovewing has made poor choices for her life. In the end, there's always two sides, and I don't recall Ivypool ever trying to understand why Dovewing likes Tigerheart, she only sees her as an idiot for pinning after a douche, and screamed at Dovewing to try to do the right thing.
Even if you have good intentions. Even if you're trying to do the right thing. Yelling hurts. A person will not listen to you if you're reacting with them in an angry way. Sometimes the best way to talk to a person is to sit down and have a gentle talk. Instead of trying to understand Dovewing's feelings, Ivypool stopped talking to Dovewing, and she wasn't there for her when she needed her.
I don't care if people are mad at me for saying this, or how "right" Ivypool was, but as someone who's just as sensitive as Dovewing, I can't entirely blame her for not listening to Ivypool. Ivypool insults Dovewing and calls her stupid or a soppy dove, and she yells at her in her face. Do people HONESTLY expect someone to listen to this person, when you're getting yelled at in your face and getting insulted? Good intentions or not, it doesn't excuse shitty behavior. I'll always firmly believe that Ivypool should have handled her sister better, and she never really did. I know she tried to protect her. I know Tigerheart is a douche and she's rightfully pissed and worried about her. But that gives her no ****ing excuse for the way how she treated Dovewing, no matter how poor the choices were made. She was too tough on Dovewing, up to the point where it was hurting her and she didn't want to listen. Ivypool has always acted like this with her, and she never really changed either, proven when she slashed Tigerheart's face and called him a "horrible mate". Ivypool is harsh. She insults people and screams at them... and that really isn't the most mature or right way to handle others.
However, putting some of my bias aside, I do understand Ivypool and why she acted the way she did. She grew up in a tougher environment, so I understand why she's always harsh to Dovewing. She tried to do what was right for Dovewing, and tried to protect her, and to her PoV, Dovewing didn't listen to her, and Ivypool finally gave up and stopped talking to her.
What I think the three should have done? Sit down and talk. They should have had their own secret meeting together and talk to one another, deciding what they should do to protect Dovewing. Even if Ivypool and Tigerheart don't get along, they'll do what's best with Dovewing, because one thing they do have in common, despite their differences, is that they both care about her, and they'll want her to make the right choice for herself.
In the end, it all comes down to lack of communication on all three sides. All three characters had a story to tell, and because of this lack of communication, nothing was resolved, and it destroyed the sisters' relationship. Dovewing should have never been with Tigerheart from the start, Ivypool should have listened to Dovewing and tried to hear her side of the story, and Tigerheart should have been honest with Ivypool and told Dovewing where she was going. Ivypool absolutely would have gone after her sister, and prolly dragged Tigerheart's ass along with her lol.
I think I've come to the conclusion that I respect Ivypool and understand her feelings, even if I don't like her much, and I'm more on the sympathetic side with Dovewing due to her own fears and lack of common sense. I blame Tigerheart for most of this, to be honest, because he was such an asshole to Dovewing, and if he just allowed her to move on from him, none of this would have happened. Dovewing wanted to return with Ivypool in ThunderClan with her own kits, that was her original plan, but she went to ShadowClan for Tigerheart and the kits to keep the family together.
In the end, she made the right choice. Ivypool and Dovewing expected too much from each other. Dovewing had to sacrifice what made her happy to make Ivypool happy, and Ivypool had to lie for her so Dovewing can be happy. It was an extremely toxic relationship, and I'm just glad this was all finally resolved so we don't have to hear any more of their stupid shit, because I'm tired of the same repetitive drama we keep hearing from these three.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on May 20, 2021 14:39:57 GMT -5
I think she should forgive Dovewing if she wants to. In the end, it's best that they're in different clans. I couldn't stand the drama.
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Post by Moonblazer on May 20, 2021 17:39:54 GMT -5
She can if she wants to, but she has no obligation to at all, so I’m fine if she does or doesn’t. Dovewing chose Shadowclan and her mate, Ivypool has no reason to be loyal to her or forgive her for it. Not her problem anymore, good riddance.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 20, 2021 18:33:58 GMT -5
No one is owed forgiveness. I think Dovewing coming back like nothing was wrong in Tigerheart's Shadow was....something alright. I don't blame Ivypool for turning her back, because it was the same drama over and over again. Ivypool just wants a peaceful life.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on May 21, 2021 12:10:43 GMT -5
It's entirely up to Ivypool and if she just doesn't want then that's how it is.
(More like if the authors/editors want to continue their drama/feud.)
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Post by Aqua on May 21, 2021 19:02:52 GMT -5
It's entirely up to Ivypool and if she just doesn't want then that's how it is. (More like if the authors/editors want to continue their drama/feud.) Watch them as they make her another arc on their drama when Ivypool becomes leader. Series #9 title: Ivystar's Hard Battle Book #1: Tigerstar's Ignorance
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on May 21, 2021 19:07:58 GMT -5
It's entirely up to Ivypool and if she just doesn't want then that's how it is. (More like if the authors/editors want to continue their drama/feud.) Watch them as they make her another arc on their drama when Ivypool becomes leader. Series #9 title: Ivystar's Hard Battle Book #1: Tigerstar's Ignorance *Bursts out laughing*
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on May 22, 2021 9:55:03 GMT -5
It's entirely up to Ivypool and if she just doesn't want then that's how it is. (More like if the authors/editors want to continue their drama/feud.) Watch them as they make her another arc on their drama when Ivypool becomes leader. Series #9 title: Ivystar's Hard Battle Book #1: Tigerstar's Ignorance I would kind of be here for that, honestly. Although I'm currently working on an AU that focuses on this exact situation so it doesn't need to become canon.
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on May 22, 2021 17:52:43 GMT -5
Yes, I think Ivypool should've forgiven Dovewing.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 23, 2021 10:07:39 GMT -5
Honestly no. But considering she loves her sister despite her idiotic bs, its more in character that she did forgive her, smh.
Also I never understood the argument that Ivypool only yells...are you referring to when she and Dove were both brats as apprentices? Cause I never recalled things like that when they were warriors. Does anyone have actual quotes or are these baseless claims in dead water?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 23, 2021 11:12:56 GMT -5
Honestly no. But considering she loves her sister despite her idiotic bs, its more in character that she did forgive her, smh. Also I never understood the argument that Ivypool only yells...are you referring to when she and Dove were both brats as apprentices? Cause I never recalled things like that when they were warriors. Does anyone have actual quotes or are these baseless claims in dead water? Probably referring to her calling Dovewing out on her BS with Tigerheart time and time again
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on May 23, 2021 17:49:15 GMT -5
I don't have an opinion on that, but since it was Ivypool's choice to forgive Dovewing, I'm fine with it.
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