Bisexual
#64C7FF
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finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on May 11, 2021 8:46:41 GMT -5
She shouldn’t have been killed off so soon after returning. I wish we could have seen her in later arcs.
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Aroace
#ffa100
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on May 11, 2021 8:56:10 GMT -5
The Hollyleaf that came back in Omen of the Stars was not the same one from Power of Three. She was just a broken version of her who had been revived by the authors/editors due to still being a popular character among the fanbase. I'm actually glad that she died in the end as her entire arc was a disaster. She deserved far better from the very start and this never happened because they simply couldn't think of a power for her. That, or she should have turned completely evil instead of the halfassed attempt being made as a justification for Hollyleaf to not be a part of The Three. So I just went to Hollyleaf's Trivia Page on the Warriors Wiki and apparently it was Vicky who wasn't able to come up with a power for her and thought that her downfall was a way better storyline anyways: Although Hollyleaf was originally part of the Three, Vicky couldn't think of a power for her, so the third cat in the prophecy was changed to Dovewing. Vicky also adds that Hollyleaf's realization that she is less special than her littermates and her dedication to the warrior code proved to be a rich storyline. Also: The authors have said Hollyleaf was chosen to die in The Last Hope to make the ultimate sacrifice and show that she was still loyal to ThunderClan. warriors.fandom.com/wiki/Hollyleaf/Trivia
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on May 11, 2021 10:15:47 GMT -5
The Hollyleaf that came back in Omen of the Stars was not the same one from Power of Three. She was just a broken version of her who had been revived by the authors/editors due to still being a popular character among the fanbase. I'm actually glad that she died in the end as her entire arc was a disaster. She deserved far better from the very start and this never happened because they simply couldn't think of a power for her. That, or she should have turned completely evil instead of the halfassed attempt being made as a justification for Hollyleaf to not be a part of The Three. So I just went to Hollyleaf's Trivia Page on the Warriors Wiki and apparently it was Vicky who wasn't able to come up with a power for her and thought that her downfall was a way better storyline anyways: Although Hollyleaf was originally part of the Three, Vicky couldn't think of a power for her, so the third cat in the prophecy was changed to Dovewing. Vicky also adds that Hollyleaf's realization that she is less special than her littermates and her dedication to the warrior code proved to be a rich storyline. Also: The authors have said Hollyleaf was chosen to die in The Last Hope to make the ultimate sacrifice and show that she was still loyal to ThunderClan. warriors.fandom.com/wiki/Hollyleaf/TriviaHollyleaf didn’t need to die in order to prove her loyalty. Breezepelt on the other hand
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Post by Aqua on May 11, 2021 10:51:42 GMT -5
No. She didn't need to die. While I appreciated her ending as a bittersweet one of her forgiving Leafpool and saving her own Clanmates, Hollyleaf has tried to prove her loyalty multiple times and actually tried worked her butt off to prove to her Clanmates she can be trusted again. My main problem with her is how she got away with her crimes and killing Ashfur was justified even in the books and by the fans themselves. She killed Ashfur in cold blood, wanted to kill her own mother, and knew exactly what she was doing. It wasn't an accident; it was planned murder for both of the characters, but Brambleclaw stepped in and defended her as she was about to tell the truth instead of facing her own consequences.
My problem with these redemption arcs in warriors is that most of these cats don't really get a proper punishment (ex: Breezepelt got away with his own crimes because people felt bad for his "daddy issues", and Crowfeather took punishment instead of him) I'm aware Breezepelt had his own Clanmates wanting him dead, but a lot of his Clanmates in the books blamed Crowfeather for what he did, pressured him to get along with each other when both clearly didn't want to, and Crowfeather was even exiled over Breezepelt, who rightfully deserves that way more than his own father.
I'm surprised no one really knew or told anyone about the Leafpool incident; can you imagine how that would have turned out if someone spoke up about that? Knowing that the super dedicated cat, loyal to the warrior code, wanted to kill her own mother in cold blood, let alone a medicine cat. It would have been dishonorable to StarClan if Hollyleaf actually succeeded with this attempt, and Leafpool was clearly disturbed by this herself... but everyone let Hollyleaf go because she "felt bad". As a Hollyleaf fan, she honestly deserved something of her own medicine, because she was terrible to Leafpool and I refuse to forgive her for what she did to her. The ONLY reason she allowed Leafpool to live is because she wanted her to encounter even more pain in her life, which Leafpool eventually did. It was something that should have been brought up in trial, but knowing Leafpool and her kindness, she wasn't going to do that to the cat she loved so much.
tl;dr cats in these books who committed crimes need to stop getting away with shit. it's bad writing and none of the cats' redemptions are honestly well written, except maybe Skystar. They didn't even try with Breezepelt, blaming another cat for what he did, and Hollyleaf's own crimes should have been brought up rather than defended.
If the Erins really wanted to prove the cats' loyalty, then they should stop giving them a cheap ending and actually make them face their consequences with bravery instead of taking it the easy way out because they like Hollyleaf and Breezepelt so much. Now Hollyleaf's fans defend her because Ashfur "had it coming" or she got a free pass because she "felt bad" and Breezepelt's treated like this soft gentle baby with dad issues when he was a malicious murderer in the past. It's cringy, and the arguments defending them are pretty weak on both sides if I'm being honest. So what if Hollyleaf was stressed or betrayed by her parents? So what if Breezepelt was angry at his father for neglecting him? I understand why they turned out the way they did, but a bad past doesn't excuse anything, and I'm tired of their fans giving their behavior a free pass because they had a half-assed redemption or because they "felt bad". Probably being blunt here but that's what I've been seeing over the years about these two, and it's annoying. This is coming from someone who absolutely adores Hollyleaf.
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Post by Card against Humanity on May 11, 2021 10:58:22 GMT -5
i like hollyleaf but she didn't need to die to redeem herself imo. breezepelt should've had the "redemption by death" arc instead, because as is his redemption basically consisted of slapping some stoats and saying he totally WAS sorry you guys!!1
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Post by Aqua on May 11, 2021 11:12:23 GMT -5
i like hollyleaf but she didn't need to die to redeem herself imo. breezepelt should've had the "redemption by death" arc instead, because as is his redemption basically consisted of slapping some stoats and saying he totally WAS sorry you guys!!1 Yep. They really didn't try with Breezepelt at all. Instead, his own father was exiled, when he hasn't done anything worthy of that punishment, which pisses me off. Breezepelt is the one who was malicious and attempted murder several times, but as soon as he's on everyone's mercy once they found out the truth about him related to the Dark Forest, everyone suddenly feels bad for him and he gets away with it. Give me a break. And I could care less of his past, it's not an excuse to hurt people. The minute he tried to attempt to hurt Poppyfrost for no reason, I was done. She hasn't done anything wrong to him. He's not getting any of my sympathy, even after his redemption, and I could care less what hardships goes through now. Breezepelt's redemption was pathetic at best.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 11, 2021 11:55:28 GMT -5
Hollyleaf is my favorite character. She deserved so much better.
She did not need to die to redeem herself or prove her loyalty. She reflected on her actions during her time in the tunnels, and regretted her overreaction.
When the secret was revealed, her whole world crumbled. As much as I love Hollyleaf, she really crossed the line when she tried to feed Leafpool deathberries. Killing Ashfur was somewhat justifyable since he had tried to kill her and her brothers and had admitted to helping take one of Firestar’s lives prior. She was so devoted to the warrior code and finding out that she was half-Clan made her whole world collapse. Especially finding out that she wasn’t a part of the prophecy either. Everything she knew and treasured disappeared in such a short period of time that she had a mental breakdown at the end of Sunrise.
She deserved to live. I was so happy for her return only for her to be killed off in the next book. The disappointment was immeasurable for 12-year-old me whose favorite character was Hollyleaf.
She deserved to redeem herself without dying, and then become ThunderClan’s next leader after Bramblestar.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on May 11, 2021 15:19:59 GMT -5
The Hollyleaf that came back in Omen of the Stars was not the same one from Power of Three. She was just a broken version of her who had been revived by the authors/editors due to still being a popular character among the fanbase. I'm actually glad that she died in the end as her entire arc was a disaster. She deserved far better from the very start and this never happened because they simply couldn't think of a power for her. That, or she should have turned completely evil instead of the halfassed attempt being made as a justification for Hollyleaf to not be a part of The Three. So I just went to Hollyleaf's Trivia Page on the Warriors Wiki and apparently it was Vicky who wasn't able to come up with a power for her and thought that her downfall was a way better storyline anyways: Although Hollyleaf was originally part of the Three, Vicky couldn't think of a power for her, so the third cat in the prophecy was changed to Dovewing. Vicky also adds that Hollyleaf's realization that she is less special than her littermates and her dedication to the warrior code proved to be a rich storyline. Also: The authors have said Hollyleaf was chosen to die in The Last Hope to make the ultimate sacrifice and show that she was still loyal to ThunderClan. warriors.fandom.com/wiki/Hollyleaf/TriviaHollyleaf didn’t need to die in order to prove her loyalty. Breezepelt on the other hand I totally agree with that but the authors/editors apparently thought otherwise and kind of assassinated Hollyleaf as a character instead.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on May 11, 2021 17:08:19 GMT -5
I don't think Hollyleaf needed to die to prove that she was loyal- after all, Breezepelt had done far worse things than she did and he didn't need to die to prove whether he was "loyal" or not. However, I'm sort of glad that Hollyleaf died because her return was messy and poorly written, as most plots pandering to the fans are. If she'd lived, I believe that her character would have become even more poorly written as time went on and that she'd just fade into the background. So I'm just quite glad her story was ended quickly.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 11, 2021 17:24:52 GMT -5
Hollyleaf absolutely should have died, in fact, she should have died a lot earlier. Better later than never I guess, at least being dead means your story ends there rather than butchering your character further.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 11, 2021 19:17:55 GMT -5
I think her death was perfect for the plot and her character, personally.
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Post by Rainfire on May 11, 2021 20:05:19 GMT -5
I love Hollyleaf and I would've loved to see her as deputy at least, but I've always been satisfied with how her arc ended.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 12, 2021 8:25:27 GMT -5
Honestly, she was better off dead. It annoys me that she came back only to be iced the next book, and her character so so abnormal. Initially, she was boring and then became interesting after finding out the truth, and now cemented as causing one of the most iconic moments in the series; her murdering Ashfur and the gathering reveal. Only for her to be brought back and butchered, with a strange redemption? I'm also not fond of the implied romance between her and Fallen Leaves, they had like no chemistry and were better off just friends, which was weird. If they were planning to bring her back, at least have her be consistent and kill off someone more reckless in the main three, like Lionblaze I guess? But honestly, I would have just rather she actually died by the cave-in, cause her character served little to any purpose later.
And don't even get me started about how her murdering Ashfur was covered up and how weird she's currently behaving in StarClan...
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Post by foxstride on May 12, 2021 9:22:42 GMT -5
I think they could have handled the death of Hollyleaf far, far better, but it was a good point for her to die. They let her down. The only way I think I'd have liked her surviving would be for Leafpool to have sacrificed herself for her or for Lionblaze to have been killed instead.
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on May 14, 2021 9:02:18 GMT -5
I think they could have handled the death of Hollyleaf far, far better, but it was a good point for her to die. They let her down. The only way I think I'd have liked her surviving would be for Leafpool to have sacrificed herself for her or for Lionblaze to have been killed instead. I think Lionblaze should have died instead
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on May 22, 2021 17:50:19 GMT -5
I liked Hollyleaf in The Last Hope. She died saving Ivypool from Thistleclaw, Snowtuft and Hawkfrost.
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Post by Cheetahstar on May 22, 2021 22:23:38 GMT -5
I still think it would have been interesting if anyone thought Lionblaze was part of the trio and not hollyleaf only to reveal nope
he normal and holly is one
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