Post by Holly Snow on Aug 29, 2016 23:38:47 GMT -5
Hello wcf~ For my first official warriors topic for this site that isn’t a repost, I am going to give us a blast from the past. That blast being Cinderheart and how she holds up as a character.
Once upon a time Cinderheart was controversial on the warrior cat forum thanks to a person who shall not be named. This was in 2010 not long after the release of Fading Echoes. For the first time in three books Cinderheart was being a supporting character rather than just an interchangeable anon in the background. Certain people did not like this because they did not like Cinderheart. They were glad that her arc was over and the fact that they would have to put up with her again for the next five books enraged them. This was particularly the case with the former who must not be named and she made a very ragey rant about how Cinderheart was a mary sue and her sureness meant that she deserved the hatred of the fandom. The Argument worked on a lot of people. It worked so well that people would copy it onto other characters such as leafpool and Spottedleaf, including me. However in hindsight there was a lot of stuff wrong with the rant. It was very bad. After the people who cared about hating Cinderheart got banned people in general stopped caring about Cinderheart. No one ever made a comprehensive topic about why Cinderheart doesn’t work as a character or why she rubs people the wrong way. So I want to do that now.
Cinderheart is a reincarnation of a…. arguably fan favourite character, Cinderpelt. I say arguably because people seem to like her, even though, I never cared about her. This should be cool though, we get more Cinderpelt! In Power of three Cinderheart is shown to be very much the reincarnation of Cinderheart. She’s spunky like Cinderpelt and a supportive friend to our main character Hollyleaf, is a test of patience to our other main character Jayfeather, and is our golden kitty’s future love interest. Holy galore she is Cinderpelt times 3! Her main arc is basically doing what Cinderpelt could not and that is becoming a warrior. She deals with healing from an accident and then getting her confidence to seize her future in Eclipse when Jayfeather helped her heal by making her do what she feared to do which was exercise her leg. One could argue that her whining in the medicine den taught Jayfeather a lesson in patience. Most of what you could like or dislike about this plot is trivial. If you find Cinderheart annoying there is no fixing that. However there is one glaring problem. Cinderheart’s arc in power of three is literally the books taking a break from the plot. If you took it out, nothing really changes. Cinderheart doesn’t impact the prophecy in this arc, she doesn’t explore the tunnels, She doesn’t contribute to the whole adoption crisis. She has zero impact on the story in pot and could be taken out entirely without there being any plot holes. The only thing she does that is plot related is doing the “wtf hero” trope at the end of Sunrise when she told Hollyleaf that telling the secret wasn’t the right decision. This was something Poppyfrost did indirectly from a distance. This is problematic because most warriors subplots lead somewhere. Cinderpelt’s subplot was the result of Tigerstar, the tribe helped the clans find their home indirectly and helped with the last hope indirectly. Ashfur’s subplot did something. Tigerxdove did something. Poppyfrosts subplot did something. Cinderheart’s subplot is obligatory. So if you find Cinderheart annoying in Pot there’s not much to fix that.
In oots Cinderheart is still obligatory but it’s made ten times worse by the fact that everything is kind of arbitrary. In Fading Echoes Cinderheart and Lionblaze are established as the romance of the story. It was kind of cute but then the rest of the series happens. After three Lionblaze chapters lionxcinder is canon. Then by the fourth Lionblaze chapter its done. I’m glad that Lionblaze told Cinderheart the secret, even if it was kind of hypocritical given that he wouldn’t let Dovewing tell Ivypool. You don’t keep things like this from your spouse. However Cinderheart’s reaction was not good. I know the writers wanted it to be that Cinderheart didn’t want Lionblaze to be distracted by destiny and they wanted to hammer in the moral “you can choose your fate”. But here it’s pretty frustrating. For one it sounds like Cinderheart is saying “you are too special for me” and that they can only be together if she is special too which she is. This sounds as stupid as it looks. Then there is the logistics. The three did absolutely nothing throughout oots. There is no reason they couldn’t be mates, she wasn’t distracting him from anything. Even if he was, she could still support him. There’s nothing preventing this other than Cinderheart’s state of mind. Then you consider that this went on for four books and a part if you gets stabby. The forgotten Warrior Cinderheart plot did not need to exist. It was not affect the main plot in any way, it existed because Yellowfang isn’t smart, and forces in a moral we don’t care about. Then in the Last Hope Lionblaze becomes a masochistto prove to Cinderheart that he’s not special- *shot* he can choose his own fate. I can’t help but imagine what lionxcinder could have been had the erins not been sadistic. Imagine Cinderheart being supportive without all the tragedy. Lionblaze and Cinderheart could have had kits in sotm and we could have gotten a few books from the perspective of a dad. We could have had a rare Warriors nice sweet couple. But no…
Cinderheart’s personality is an interesting beast. The main characters are all introverts and seldom ever bring in people from the outside. Cinderheart was the only one whoever got into the threes world and stayed there. Sol, Leafpool, Squirrelflight, bramblestar, and Stromfur never stayed and Dovewing was required to be there. Only Cinderheart stuck around so that makes her kind of interesting. However most of what we see of Cinderheart is her at her worst. She’s over dramatic about small things and that’s pretty much it about her. There’s just not much to her. Heathertail, Breezepelt, Blossamfall and Tigerheart all have more going on despite being around less. I wish Cinderheart had been treated differently because there is not much to like. If her dramatics don’t rub you the wrong way shes just kind of there.
So far I have mostly ignored Cinderpelt. The reason is because after Cinderheart and Cinderpelt become warriors they aren’t much alike. I have a theory that the reason Cinderpelt is seen as a great friend to Firestar and thus a great supporting character, is because of her crush on him. Throughout reading the first arc when I was 12 and 13 I picked up on this emotion coming from Cinderpelt but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. I theorized perhaps it was love and I was right. Cinderpelt always had this desire to help Firestar and give advice when she got older and Firestar appreciated that. She did so in a subtly intement way. Touching Firestar, teasing him, brightening up when she saw him, being hostile towards Sandstorm. It wasn’t as blatant as Turtle Tail’s actions but it was there. I think the supportiveness came partly from her love for Firestar and this can be slightly backed by how she is less charming when around Leafpool. Cinderheart never had this. She loved Lionblaze but it wasn’t like this. Cinderheart never exhibited the altruism that people fell in love with in Cinderpelt.
Also the possession plot point was dumb.
In conclusion, Cinderheart is a bit of a letdown. If she doesn’t rub you the wrong way she is just sort of there and she doesn’t have the altruism people loved Cinderpelt for. It’s kind of sad because if given the chance I think she could have shined.
Once upon a time Cinderheart was controversial on the warrior cat forum thanks to a person who shall not be named. This was in 2010 not long after the release of Fading Echoes. For the first time in three books Cinderheart was being a supporting character rather than just an interchangeable anon in the background. Certain people did not like this because they did not like Cinderheart. They were glad that her arc was over and the fact that they would have to put up with her again for the next five books enraged them. This was particularly the case with the former who must not be named and she made a very ragey rant about how Cinderheart was a mary sue and her sureness meant that she deserved the hatred of the fandom. The Argument worked on a lot of people. It worked so well that people would copy it onto other characters such as leafpool and Spottedleaf, including me. However in hindsight there was a lot of stuff wrong with the rant. It was very bad. After the people who cared about hating Cinderheart got banned people in general stopped caring about Cinderheart. No one ever made a comprehensive topic about why Cinderheart doesn’t work as a character or why she rubs people the wrong way. So I want to do that now.
Cinderheart is a reincarnation of a…. arguably fan favourite character, Cinderpelt. I say arguably because people seem to like her, even though, I never cared about her. This should be cool though, we get more Cinderpelt! In Power of three Cinderheart is shown to be very much the reincarnation of Cinderheart. She’s spunky like Cinderpelt and a supportive friend to our main character Hollyleaf, is a test of patience to our other main character Jayfeather, and is our golden kitty’s future love interest. Holy galore she is Cinderpelt times 3! Her main arc is basically doing what Cinderpelt could not and that is becoming a warrior. She deals with healing from an accident and then getting her confidence to seize her future in Eclipse when Jayfeather helped her heal by making her do what she feared to do which was exercise her leg. One could argue that her whining in the medicine den taught Jayfeather a lesson in patience. Most of what you could like or dislike about this plot is trivial. If you find Cinderheart annoying there is no fixing that. However there is one glaring problem. Cinderheart’s arc in power of three is literally the books taking a break from the plot. If you took it out, nothing really changes. Cinderheart doesn’t impact the prophecy in this arc, she doesn’t explore the tunnels, She doesn’t contribute to the whole adoption crisis. She has zero impact on the story in pot and could be taken out entirely without there being any plot holes. The only thing she does that is plot related is doing the “wtf hero” trope at the end of Sunrise when she told Hollyleaf that telling the secret wasn’t the right decision. This was something Poppyfrost did indirectly from a distance. This is problematic because most warriors subplots lead somewhere. Cinderpelt’s subplot was the result of Tigerstar, the tribe helped the clans find their home indirectly and helped with the last hope indirectly. Ashfur’s subplot did something. Tigerxdove did something. Poppyfrosts subplot did something. Cinderheart’s subplot is obligatory. So if you find Cinderheart annoying in Pot there’s not much to fix that.
In oots Cinderheart is still obligatory but it’s made ten times worse by the fact that everything is kind of arbitrary. In Fading Echoes Cinderheart and Lionblaze are established as the romance of the story. It was kind of cute but then the rest of the series happens. After three Lionblaze chapters lionxcinder is canon. Then by the fourth Lionblaze chapter its done. I’m glad that Lionblaze told Cinderheart the secret, even if it was kind of hypocritical given that he wouldn’t let Dovewing tell Ivypool. You don’t keep things like this from your spouse. However Cinderheart’s reaction was not good. I know the writers wanted it to be that Cinderheart didn’t want Lionblaze to be distracted by destiny and they wanted to hammer in the moral “you can choose your fate”. But here it’s pretty frustrating. For one it sounds like Cinderheart is saying “you are too special for me” and that they can only be together if she is special too which she is. This sounds as stupid as it looks. Then there is the logistics. The three did absolutely nothing throughout oots. There is no reason they couldn’t be mates, she wasn’t distracting him from anything. Even if he was, she could still support him. There’s nothing preventing this other than Cinderheart’s state of mind. Then you consider that this went on for four books and a part if you gets stabby. The forgotten Warrior Cinderheart plot did not need to exist. It was not affect the main plot in any way, it existed because Yellowfang isn’t smart, and forces in a moral we don’t care about. Then in the Last Hope Lionblaze becomes a masochistto prove to Cinderheart that he’s not special- *shot* he can choose his own fate. I can’t help but imagine what lionxcinder could have been had the erins not been sadistic. Imagine Cinderheart being supportive without all the tragedy. Lionblaze and Cinderheart could have had kits in sotm and we could have gotten a few books from the perspective of a dad. We could have had a rare Warriors nice sweet couple. But no…
Cinderheart’s personality is an interesting beast. The main characters are all introverts and seldom ever bring in people from the outside. Cinderheart was the only one whoever got into the threes world and stayed there. Sol, Leafpool, Squirrelflight, bramblestar, and Stromfur never stayed and Dovewing was required to be there. Only Cinderheart stuck around so that makes her kind of interesting. However most of what we see of Cinderheart is her at her worst. She’s over dramatic about small things and that’s pretty much it about her. There’s just not much to her. Heathertail, Breezepelt, Blossamfall and Tigerheart all have more going on despite being around less. I wish Cinderheart had been treated differently because there is not much to like. If her dramatics don’t rub you the wrong way shes just kind of there.
So far I have mostly ignored Cinderpelt. The reason is because after Cinderheart and Cinderpelt become warriors they aren’t much alike. I have a theory that the reason Cinderpelt is seen as a great friend to Firestar and thus a great supporting character, is because of her crush on him. Throughout reading the first arc when I was 12 and 13 I picked up on this emotion coming from Cinderpelt but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. I theorized perhaps it was love and I was right. Cinderpelt always had this desire to help Firestar and give advice when she got older and Firestar appreciated that. She did so in a subtly intement way. Touching Firestar, teasing him, brightening up when she saw him, being hostile towards Sandstorm. It wasn’t as blatant as Turtle Tail’s actions but it was there. I think the supportiveness came partly from her love for Firestar and this can be slightly backed by how she is less charming when around Leafpool. Cinderheart never had this. She loved Lionblaze but it wasn’t like this. Cinderheart never exhibited the altruism that people fell in love with in Cinderpelt.
Also the possession plot point was dumb.
In conclusion, Cinderheart is a bit of a letdown. If she doesn’t rub you the wrong way she is just sort of there and she doesn’t have the altruism people loved Cinderpelt for. It’s kind of sad because if given the chance I think she could have shined.
