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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 10:56:14 GMT -5
ppl keep talking about oakstar like he specifically wanted to raise the kits to assassinate appledusk, but wasnt it basically "the best revenge is to raise these kits as strong warriors to show rival clans that we will always defend what is ours" or something. correct me if im wrong, i dont remember specifically what oakstar said, but i dont remember it being as specific as "were gonna train these kits to kill appledusk" Here's the scene. They wanted to raise them like great warriors, then have them avenge Birchface's death when they're "ready". It's noted how dark his tone was, so it's obvious what the intentions are in this scene.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 11:11:35 GMT -5
Mapleshade chose to break the warrior code and lie to her clan at the wrong time. She chose to have kits with Appledusk, planned to tell the truth later about her kits, KNOWING that Oakstar wanted to use them for revenge. She chose to lie about Birchface and allowed the clan to believe he was their father. She chose to let her kits play in the river outside of her own camp. Mapleshade constantly breaks the code, and lied to her clan while they were still grieving over a well respected warrior. No, she doesn't deserve to be exiled, and her kits were completely innocent, but she didn't think twice about ANYTHING. Mapleshade brought 95% of her problems on her own, and had no one to blame but herself. The rest was just an unfortunate timing of everyone else figuring out something was off about the kits, but remember Mapleshade was the one who didn't protect her kits all that well either and treated them like prizes to solve everyone's problems. Plenty of times she thought everything would be okay and she'd be off scott-free. PLENTY. I really don't like Mapleshade and her stupidity. She didn't think twice about anything, and was unrealistic about how everything would come out once she planned to tell the truth. She really should've just moved them to RiverClan; they'd have been treated better there, and she would have been happy with Appledusk. She's not innocent. But most of her problems were her own fault because she didn't think twice. And none of this would've happened if she was loyal to her clan in the first place. /: Mapleshade really didn't have the right to blame everyone for the problems she caused. And she had the chance to live a better life with Myler, and took that down as well. Myler was nice and cared about her, but Mapleshade was a jerk and turned that help down. She's stupid, doesn't think twice, and blames everyone for her own problems she caused alone. She was unsympathetic with everyone except herself. Mapleshade decided she was going to tell her clan the truth from the start, even before Frecklewish's pressuring and before knowing that Oakstar wanted to use them. Her bringing the kits doesn't change the fact that the prophecy still happened, and Rabbitfur still ran his mouth about how clumsy they were to Ravenwing. Not to mention Ravenwing also brought up their pelt colors, he didn't need Mapleshade to confirm his accusations, he went to Oakstar with them regardless. Also to say she didn't think twice about anything is a stretch, she's literally shown thinking twice about lying or not to Frecklewish, which is why she wasn't able to answer her at all in the end. And to say that she never defended the kits, not actually cared about them is also a stretch, a nonsensical one at that. Even when the clan wanted to throw them out along side her because of who the father was, she still defended her kits. Even when she was bleeding from the face, she still defended them. Even when she was almost drowning, she risked drowning herself fighting to save those kits. And even after being dragged ashore and gagging water she forced herself to tell the patrol about the kits with what strength she had left. To say she didn't love her kits, or cared about them....feels disturbing imo. She was leaving to live with RiverClan, but it seems that she gets victim blamed for that as well. And it's also pretty nonsensical to expect her to want to live out her life with a kittypet, a stranger, she didn't even know? And as I said before, I don't care if people are angry about her after she spiraled, it doesn't bother me, to but to put the majority of the blame on her for what happened prior is baseless imo.
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Post by Aqua on May 3, 2021 11:14:52 GMT -5
Frecklewish didn't attack her until she found out the father was Appledusk, not because it wasn't Birchface's. Same with Oakstar and Ravenwing. Ravenwing accused her of mothering Appledusk's kits. And the first thing Oakstar demanded was who was the father of the kits, using Ravenwing's claim that they were Appledusk's. The point Mapleshade kept driving was that the father of the kits shouldn't matter. And they shouldn't. But it's very much because of who their father is that they drove them out. Frecklewish literally says that their father killed Birch and Flower and that her deserved to be driven out. Added to the fact that Ravenwing had a prophecy, Oakstar uses it as means to rationalize his decisions to exile kits. He even implies that if they belonged to any other tom he would have been different toward the decision. Whether the kits belonged to Birchface or not wouldn't have changed a single thing, the mere fact that they shared the same blood as Appledusk would have been enough for them to treat Maple and her kits like trash. I still don’t believe Frecklewish wouldn’t have lashed out as badly had she not been led to believe that the kits were her dead brother’s. The fact that she was led to believe that they were her brother’s for two moons AND that they were actually the kits of the cat who killed her brother combined are what caused her to lash out. Not just one or the other. It's why I sympathize with Frecklewish. Nobody's excusing her actions, but I feel like she went through a lot of grief in her life, and Mapleshade didn't think twice about her friend's feelings and used her. Frecklewish was right in a way: Mapleshade betrayed her, and her clan. She shouldn't have insulted the kits or slashed Mapleshade, but I understand why she acted the way she did. She was lied to and was given that her brother, a family member, was living on through Mapleshade's kits. I don't even like Frecklewish, but I pity her.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 3, 2021 11:28:04 GMT -5
I still don’t believe Frecklewish wouldn’t have lashed out as badly had she not been led to believe that the kits were her dead brother’s. The fact that she was led to believe that they were her brother’s for two moons AND that they were actually the kits of the cat who killed her brother combined are what caused her to lash out. Not just one or the other. It's why I sympathize with Frecklewish. Nobody's excusing her actions, but I feel like she went through a lot of grief in her life, and Mapleshade didn't think twice about her friend's feelings and used her. Frecklewish was right in a way: Mapleshade betrayed her, and her clan. She shouldn't have insulted the kits or slashed Mapleshade, but I understand why she acted the way she did. She was lied to and was given that her brother, a family member, was living on through Mapleshade's kits. I don't even like Frecklewish, but I pity her. I feel the same way. She had every single right to be angry with Mapleshade, but she shouldn’t have attacked her, especially in front of her kits. She was clearly VERY upset about her brother’s death and the kits gave her hope. She was led to believe that they were her brother’s kits for two whole moons only to figure out she was lied to. She acted with complete rage in the moment, which I understand. Also, people say that she should’ve done something to save Mapleshade’s kits, but she couldn’t? She’s a ThunderClan cat. She can’t swim. Not to mention that her own brother drowned in that river moons before. She knew that a RiverClan patrol was nearby and figured that they will save Mapleshade and the kits. She never wanted the kits to die. No one wanted them to.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 11:31:06 GMT -5
I still don’t believe Frecklewish wouldn’t have lashed out as badly had she not been led to believe that the kits were her dead brother’s. The fact that she was led to believe that they were her brother’s for two moons AND that they were actually the kits of the cat who killed her brother combined are what caused her to lash out. Not just one or the other. It's why I sympathize with Frecklewish. Nobody's excusing her actions, but I feel like she went through a lot of grief in her life, and Mapleshade didn't think twice about her friend's feelings and used her. Frecklewish was right in a way: Mapleshade betrayed her, and her clan. She shouldn't have insulted the kits or slashed Mapleshade, but I understand why she acted the way she did. She was lied to and was given that her brother, a family member, was living on through Mapleshade's kits. I don't even like Frecklewish, but I pity her. Where does it ever say they were friends prior to her pressuring her about the father of the kits? They were never friends, and the only relationship they had was based on the idea of her brother being the father. Mapleshade was alone in the clans prior to that.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 11:35:00 GMT -5
It's why I sympathize with Frecklewish. Nobody's excusing her actions, but I feel like she went through a lot of grief in her life, and Mapleshade didn't think twice about her friend's feelings and used her. Frecklewish was right in a way: Mapleshade betrayed her, and her clan. She shouldn't have insulted the kits or slashed Mapleshade, but I understand why she acted the way she did. She was lied to and was given that her brother, a family member, was living on through Mapleshade's kits. I don't even like Frecklewish, but I pity her. I feel the same way. She had every single right to be angry with Mapleshade, but she shouldn’t have attacked her, especially in front of her kits. She was clearly VERY upset about her brother’s death and the kits gave her hope. She was led to believe that they were her brother’s kits for two whole moons only to figure out she was lied to. She acted with complete rage in the moment, which I understand. Also, people say that she should’ve done something to save Mapleshade’s kits, but she couldn’t? She’s a ThunderClan cat. She can’t swim. Not to mention that her own brother drowned in that river moons before. She knew that a RiverClan patrol was nearby and figured that they will save Mapleshade and the kits. She never wanted the kits to die. No one wanted them to. The excuse that she couldn't swim doesn't matter in a situation like that. She was aware of the patrol near by. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was stopping her from at least alerting the patrol to a queen and hers kits drowning. She didn't even have to cross the river to do that, she could have alerted them. The patrol were fast enough to save Mapleshade's life, but they didn't even know the kits were in the waters either until she told them. By the time they got to the kits they were dead, they couldn't have save them as fast like their mother because they weren't aware. If Frecklewish actually cared about the kits she would have done everything in her power at that moment to help them. Call for help, call anyone, do something, not just watch them drown and then walk away and shrug thinking they'll be just fine. Imagined if that actually played out irl....the absolute horror...of that idea....
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Post by Aqua on May 3, 2021 11:37:18 GMT -5
It's why I sympathize with Frecklewish. Nobody's excusing her actions, but I feel like she went through a lot of grief in her life, and Mapleshade didn't think twice about her friend's feelings and used her. Frecklewish was right in a way: Mapleshade betrayed her, and her clan. She shouldn't have insulted the kits or slashed Mapleshade, but I understand why she acted the way she did. She was lied to and was given that her brother, a family member, was living on through Mapleshade's kits. I don't even like Frecklewish, but I pity her. I feel the same way. She had every single right to be angry with Mapleshade, but she shouldn’t have attacked her, especially in front of her kits. She was clearly VERY upset about her brother’s death and the kits gave her hope. She was led to believe that they were her brother’s kits for two whole moons only to figure out she was lied to. She acted with complete rage in the moment, which I understand. Also, people say that she should’ve done something to save Mapleshade’s kits, but she couldn’t? She’s a ThunderClan cat. She can’t swim. Not to mention that her own brother drowned in that river moons before. She knew that a RiverClan patrol was nearby and figured that they will save Mapleshade and the kits. She never wanted the kits to die. No one wanted them to. Not to mention Frecklewish didn't want the kits to die in the first place. I really don't think she's a malicious cat, she was in the heat of the moment and felt rightfully betrayed by Mapleshade when she lashed out. I think every warriors fan pretty much agrees that everyone in MV were pretty awful, but a few people do understand why the situation happened, and it happened because Mapleshade was careless about everything. She never cared about Frecklewish's feelings, she forced her kits to swim when even the KITS knew that it wasn't safe, didn't have a plan to protect her kits when she also knew Oakstar wanted to use them for revenge. Seriously... a lot could've been done better if she was smarter about this! It's why she pisses me off as a character. She bitches (pardon my language) and moans about how she didn't do anything wrong, but her carelessness and constant code-breaking is what got her into this crap in the first place. If she was loyal to her clan and actually thought ahead, "Hey, my Clanmate's warrior just died from the cat I loved, maybe I shouldn't have kits with him" she would have been FINE. She fully knew her Clanmates were still angry at Appledusk and she knew her own kits were in danger from the start. She's very stupid for thinking everything would be okay! This is coming from someone who doesn't even like the warrior code. I don't agree with it, but her carelessness about the warrior code is what brought her into this mess in the first place.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 11:38:49 GMT -5
Ah so it's perfectly understandable for her to slash Mapleshade's face, and attack her then call her kits half-clan creatures because she was very very very upset. Right.
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Post by Aqua on May 3, 2021 11:41:36 GMT -5
Ah so it's perfectly understandable for her to slash Mapleshade's face, and attack her then call her kits half-clan creatures because she was very very very upset. Right. People have said MULTIPLE times nobody's excusing Frecklewish actually.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 11:42:57 GMT -5
Ah so it's perfectly understandable for her to slash Mapleshade's face, and attack her then call her kits half-clan creatures because she was very very very upset. Right. People have said MULTIPLE times nobody's excusing Frecklewish actually. I didn't say excuse, I said understandable.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 3, 2021 12:15:59 GMT -5
People have said MULTIPLE times nobody's excusing Frecklewish actually. I didn't say excuse, I said understandable. Same thing. I understand completely why she was angry. But no one said it was understandable for her to attack Mapleshade.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 3, 2021 12:22:18 GMT -5
I feel the same way. She had every single right to be angry with Mapleshade, but she shouldn’t have attacked her, especially in front of her kits. She was clearly VERY upset about her brother’s death and the kits gave her hope. She was led to believe that they were her brother’s kits for two whole moons only to figure out she was lied to. She acted with complete rage in the moment, which I understand. Also, people say that she should’ve done something to save Mapleshade’s kits, but she couldn’t? She’s a ThunderClan cat. She can’t swim. Not to mention that her own brother drowned in that river moons before. She knew that a RiverClan patrol was nearby and figured that they will save Mapleshade and the kits. She never wanted the kits to die. No one wanted them to. The excuse that she couldn't swim doesn't matter in a situation like that. She was aware of the patrol near by. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was stopping her from at least alerting the patrol to a queen and hers kits drowning. She didn't even have to cross the river to do that, she could have alerted them. The patrol were fast enough to save Mapleshade's life, but they didn't even know the kits were in the waters either until she told them. By the time they got to the kits they were dead, they couldn't have save them as fast like their mother because they weren't aware. If Frecklewish actually cared about the kits she would have done everything in her power at that moment to help them. Call for help, call anyone, do something, not just watch them drown and then walk away and shrug thinking they'll be just fine. Imagined if that actually played out irl....the absolute horror...of that idea.... Frecklewish says herself that she thought the patrol could save the kits. She never wanted them to die. She was angry about the fact that Appledusk was their father, but did not want them to die. She saw the patrol, figured that cats who could swim would save them themselves, and then left the scene. She didn’t even know they ended up dying until Mapleshade told her.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 12:49:06 GMT -5
The excuse that she couldn't swim doesn't matter in a situation like that. She was aware of the patrol near by. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was stopping her from at least alerting the patrol to a queen and hers kits drowning. She didn't even have to cross the river to do that, she could have alerted them. The patrol were fast enough to save Mapleshade's life, but they didn't even know the kits were in the waters either until she told them. By the time they got to the kits they were dead, they couldn't have save them as fast like their mother because they weren't aware. If Frecklewish actually cared about the kits she would have done everything in her power at that moment to help them. Call for help, call anyone, do something, not just watch them drown and then walk away and shrug thinking they'll be just fine. Imagined if that actually played out irl....the absolute horror...of that idea.... Frecklewish says herself that she thought the patrol could save the kits. She never wanted them to die. She was angry about the fact that Appledusk was their father, but did not want them to die. She saw the patrol, figured that cats who could swim would save them themselves, and then left the scene. She didn’t even know they ended up dying until Mapleshade told her. And she's right, they weren't. She stalked her out the camp, watched her and her kits struggle across the river, saw them getting washed away and assumed they'd be fine. Assumed they were okay when they were clearly drowning. In what world are kits drowning okay? Regardless of the patrol being nearby or not. Yet she did nothing. It baffles me how she would think walking away from a scene like that would perfectly fine. But then only feels guilt when she finds out the kits didn't survive. And again, the fact that she knew about the patrol makes this worse. She should have alerted the patrol if she truly wanted those kits to survive, but considering her "half-clan creatures" comment and her advocating to have them thrown out, it's hard to believe her imo. Also what she did is like the equivalent of a person at the beach seeing someone drowning, and doing nothing to alert the life guard, just walking away until the life guard notices themselves. Then they feel guilty only when they find out the person they left to drown died, like it's supposed to be a shock or something that that was a possibility.
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Post by Mothdapple on May 3, 2021 13:40:45 GMT -5
Frecklewish says herself that she thought the patrol could save the kits. She never wanted them to die. She was angry about the fact that Appledusk was their father, but did not want them to die. She saw the patrol, figured that cats who could swim would save them themselves, and then left the scene. She didn’t even know they ended up dying until Mapleshade told her. And she's right, they weren't. She stalked her out the camp, watched her and her kits struggle across the river, saw them getting washed away and assumed they'd be fine. Assumed they were okay when they were clearly drowning. In what world are kits drowning okay? Regardless of the patrol being nearby or not. Yet she did nothing. It baffles me how she would think walking away from a scene like that would perfectly fine. But then only feels guilt when she finds out the kits didn't survive. And again, the fact that she knew about the patrol makes this worse. She should have alerted the patrol if she truly wanted those kits to survive, but considering her "half-clan creatures" comment and her advocating to have them thrown out, it's hard to believe her imo. Also what she did is like the equivalent of a person at the beach seeing someone drowning, and doing nothing to alert the life guard, just walking away until the life guard notices themselves. Then they feel guilty only when they find out the person they left to drown died, like it's supposed to be a shock or something that that was a possibility. You have a point, but she likely just assumed, but that assumption ended up being deadly. I really don’t think she wanted the kits to die. No one did.
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Post by Aqua on May 3, 2021 13:55:08 GMT -5
And she's right, they weren't. She stalked her out the camp, watched her and her kits struggle across the river, saw them getting washed away and assumed they'd be fine. Assumed they were okay when they were clearly drowning. In what world are kits drowning okay? Regardless of the patrol being nearby or not. Yet she did nothing. It baffles me how she would think walking away from a scene like that would perfectly fine. But then only feels guilt when she finds out the kits didn't survive. And again, the fact that she knew about the patrol makes this worse. She should have alerted the patrol if she truly wanted those kits to survive, but considering her "half-clan creatures" comment and her advocating to have them thrown out, it's hard to believe her imo. Also what she did is like the equivalent of a person at the beach seeing someone drowning, and doing nothing to alert the life guard, just walking away until the life guard notices themselves. Then they feel guilty only when they find out the person they left to drown died, like it's supposed to be a shock or something that that was a possibility. You have a point, but she likely just assumed, but that assumption ended up being deadly. I really don’t think she wanted the kits to die. No one did. Except maybe Oakstar, since he was the one who exiled the kits in the first place. Frecklewish acted out of grief and pain, but he was angry and wanted to use the kits as killers.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 3, 2021 15:31:27 GMT -5
ppl keep talking about oakstar like he specifically wanted to raise the kits to assassinate appledusk, but wasnt it basically "the best revenge is to raise these kits as strong warriors to show rival clans that we will always defend what is ours" or something. correct me if im wrong, i dont remember specifically what oakstar said, but i dont remember it being as specific as "were gonna train these kits to kill appledusk" Here's the scene. They wanted to raise them like great warriors, then have them avenge Birchface's death when they're "ready". It's noted how dark his tone was, so it's obvious what the intentions are in this scene. hmmm, i feel like its more open to interpretation than that. i mean look at what oakstar prefaced all that with: "It will do no harm for RiverClan to know that they may have robbed us of two fine cats, but thanks to Birchface, there will be three more warriors ready to defend what is rightfully ours." that alone makes me think that "avenge" i used in a broader sense, rather than raising them to personally want to kill Appledusk.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 3, 2021 15:39:04 GMT -5
could be that frecklewish saw the riverclan patrol had already spotted mapleshade, and thats why she didn't "call out" or something. we're hearing what happened third-hand from an apprentice who wasnt exactly sharing a highly detailed account.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 20:43:39 GMT -5
Here's the scene. They wanted to raise them like great warriors, then have them avenge Birchface's death when they're "ready". It's noted how dark his tone was, so it's obvious what the intentions are in this scene. hmmm, i feel like its more open to interpretation than that. i mean look at what oakstar prefaced all that with: "It will do no harm for RiverClan to know that they may have robbed us of two fine cats, but thanks to Birchface, there will be three more warriors ready to defend what is rightfully ours." that alone makes me think that "avenge" i used in a broader sense, rather than raising them to personally want to kill Appledusk. I disagree, the moment he followed that comment up with this: Proves that he had intent on wanting the kits to one day specifically gun for Appledusk not just getting the boarders back. His tone was dark, his intent is clear, and his words even made Mapleshade's fur stand on edge. It's obvious at this point him and Frecklewish have no qualms with showing no mercy, despite what the warrior code says, just so they could avenge Birchface. They want the kits to one day do to Appledusk what he supposedly did to Birch and Flower. Getting the borders back is a clan thing, watching his supposed grandchildren murder the cat that killed their supposed father is a personal vendetta.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 3, 2021 21:17:39 GMT -5
could be that frecklewish saw the riverclan patrol had already spotted mapleshade, and thats why she didn't "call out" or something. we're hearing what happened third-hand from an apprentice who wasnt exactly sharing a highly detailed account. In the context given, this makes no sense. She herself acknowledges and confirms what Neetlepaw says when Mapleshade confronts her with the information and she confirms it with guilt. She knew RiverClan cats were on the far shore, not that she thought they saw her, the only thing she saw was them drowning before figuring they'd be fine and leaving them to their fates. She confirmed that she was watching them drown as they were washed down to the far shore, where the patrol eventually did find them but obviously too late. And the far shore doesn't just mean, down river, far shore is just that, it's far from where she and the kits were washed away, and she expects kits not to drown from something like that during a storm without immediate assistance? Mapleshade herself barely lived. If she actually thought the patrol had saw them, she would have stated so, there's no reason for her not to defend herself against Mapleshade's accusation if she thought she thought the patrol saw them. But considering the time frame, the moment they were washed away, they would have been saved by that logic, and the kits would be fine, but that's not what happened obviously.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 3, 2021 23:47:21 GMT -5
idk man i think we're reading too much into a novella that was probably half-assed to begin with. we can guess and spin interpretations off what's in the book but i shy away from making very deterministic claims about what xyz means and stuff. personal opinion.
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Post by Aqua on May 4, 2021 0:02:02 GMT -5
idk man i think we're reading too much into a novella that was probably half-assed to begin with. we can guess and spin interpretations off what's in the book but i shy away from making very deterministic claims about what xyz means and stuff. personal opinion. we really are. nobody's right or wrong, and there are no "facts" in this novella, and nothing is really "proven" with a single word in a sentence. It's a half-assed novella that was rushed because the writers didn't have enough time to fit everything in. Mapleshade should have had the super edition she deserved. She was one of their best villains written, even if she did have annoying tom drama, and all of that was ruined and the writers made her look stupid about everything. I find it hard to believe that not one cat felt sorry for a homeless queen with kits. She didn't have one ounce of sympathy from anyone all for the sake of the plot to work. The Erins really didn't try here, and there's not enough evidence from the book itself to really prove how anyone felt about anything.
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Post by Aqua on May 4, 2021 0:15:21 GMT -5
It also bothers me when Mapleshade didn't believe she did anything wrong and was pretty entitled with her own behavior, and I don't like how her fans defend her behavior when she was the one who broke the warrior code and lied in the first place and expects their medicine cat to clean up after her mess, but that's another rant on it's own. It's just kinda frustrating to me how everyone's complaining about everyone being dishonest, but when Ravenwing spills the beans, people expect him to clean up after her??? I just??? why do you expect him to cover up for her crap she caused. why does Mapleshade get a free pass. and then get mad at everyone else breaking the warrior code. i just... i don't get these debates sometimes. if ppl are gonna give Mapleshade a free pass for her behavior, then ppl might as well cut everyone else some slack because everyone else breaking the warrior code really isn't any less selfish than Mapleshade. It's the double standards like these that bothers me lol
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Post by Mothdapple on May 4, 2021 0:25:39 GMT -5
idk man i think we're reading too much into a novella that was probably half-assed to begin with. we can guess and spin interpretations off what's in the book but i shy away from making very deterministic claims about what xyz means and stuff. personal opinion. we really are. nobody's right or wrong, and there are no "facts" in this novella, and nothing is really "proven" with a single word in a sentence. It's a half-assed novella that was rushed because the writers didn't have enough time to fit everything in. Mapleshade should have had the super edition she deserved. She was one of their best villains written, even if she did have annoying tom drama, and all of that was ruined and the writers made her look stupid about everything. I find it hard to believe that not one cat felt sorry for a homeless queen with kits. She didn't have one ounce of sympathy from anyone all for the sake of the plot to work. The Erins really didn't try here, and there's not enough evidence from the book itself to really prove how anyone felt about anything. This is why it should’ve been a super edition, or just not released at all.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 4, 2021 0:27:56 GMT -5
yeah MpV could have been a much more interesting, complex narrative, but i think a novella just can't do the concept the full justice it deserves. not saying that the novella is total crap, just that there's a lot of wasted potential and it could have used a lot more time and thought.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 4, 2021 2:51:08 GMT -5
I disagree, but I'll leave it at that, this has become tiring on it's own. My whole issue in general is that the victim blaming in this fandom is utterly uncomfortable to read about, and then the strawman arguments don't make it better imo.
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