|
Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on May 2, 2021 15:06:00 GMT -5
Also like 90% of the windclan cats after onstar became leader. They turned into another shadowclan.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 16:34:13 GMT -5
Onestar. Just. Repulsive character. Unique and developed character I guess but still disgusting. Admitted defeat too little too late imo. Zero sadness when he died.
Probably Needletail. I just can't really explain why. The whole story where she felt betrayed when her clan though she was dead was touching but... honestly Sol had a worse backstory, and that's saying something. She didn't have much ground to justify herself to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by Lizard 🦎 on May 2, 2021 17:27:50 GMT -5
MAPLESHADE
CLEAR SKY
STAR FLOWER
NEEDLETAIL
DOVEWING
|
|
|
Post by Card against Humanity on May 2, 2021 17:44:40 GMT -5
how the hell did i forget onestar
|
|
|
Post by fishbreeze on May 2, 2021 18:14:46 GMT -5
I'm confused, people actually feel sorry for Onestar? Like, he did all this crap in the books, and the only thing he really had to face was killing his son who he abandoned, and who nearly destroyed the clans, and then, he doesn't even have to face the consequences because he gets a hero's death
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 2, 2021 18:19:16 GMT -5
I'm confused, people actually feel sorry for Onestar? Like, he did all this crap in the books, and the only thing he really had to face was killing his son who he abandoned, and who nearly destroyed the clans, and then, he doesn't even have to face the consequences because he gets a hero's death Shockingly there are actually people that feel bad for him because they're more attached to Onewhisker as a character. You'd think that would have went away when he started unnecessary battles and bloodshed with his former friend, but apparently not. There's still people that defend him despite being okay with letting ShadowClan die out from sickness too. It's baffling.
|
|
|
Post by fishbreeze on May 2, 2021 18:25:23 GMT -5
I'm confused, people actually feel sorry for Onestar? Like, he did all this crap in the books, and the only thing he really had to face was killing his son who he abandoned, and who nearly destroyed the clans, and then, he doesn't even have to face the consequences because he gets a hero's death Shockingly there are actually people that feel bad for him because they're more attached to Onewhisker as a character. You'd think that would have went away when he started unnecessary battles and bloodshed with his former friend, but apparently not. There's still people that defend him despite being okay with letting ShadowClan die out from sickness too. It's baffling. Wow, what was their argument for the shadowclan thing? I kinda wish I could still like a character that I originally loved in the beginning, a lot of the times, characters I initially like a lot become unbearable or die.
|
|
|
Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on May 2, 2021 18:35:42 GMT -5
Shockingly there are actually people that feel bad for him because they're more attached to Onewhisker as a character. You'd think that would have went away when he started unnecessary battles and bloodshed with his former friend, but apparently not. There's still people that defend him despite being okay with letting ShadowClan die out from sickness too. It's baffling. Wow, what was their argument for the shadowclan thing? I kinda wish I could still like a character that I originally loved in the beginning, a lot of the times, characters I initially like a lot become unbearable or die. I've been team Lionblaze since the start so I haven't been let down yet. The chad lives on. Also, Mothflight. felt bad for her just about the entire book.
|
|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on May 2, 2021 18:44:18 GMT -5
Onestar. He just... really really sucks.
|
|
|
Post by Ivyfalcon on May 2, 2021 18:48:16 GMT -5
Onestar Needletail Raggedstar Star Flower Tom Rainflower Appledusk Oakstar Spottedleaf Ashfur
|
|
|
Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on May 2, 2021 18:50:03 GMT -5
why do so many people have no sympathy for Spottedleaf? Sure, she was in the wrong for loving Firestar, but she didn't deserve to be outright murdered.
|
|
|
Post by Ivyfalcon on May 2, 2021 19:00:10 GMT -5
why do so many people have no sympathy for Spottedleaf? Sure, she was in the wrong for loving Firestar, but she didn't deserve to be outright murdered. I’m not saying she deserved to die, I’m just saying I don’t really sympathize with her for the Firestar situation. I know this wasn’t directed at me specifically, but as one of the people who listed Spottedleaf, this is why, and I’d guess most others that put her don’t think she deserved to die either. I also put Appledusk, and while I really dislike him and don’t really sympathize with him for the whole situation, I still don’t think he deserved to die either. Not feeling sorry for a cat does not equal thinking they deserved to die, for me at least.
|
|
|
Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on May 2, 2021 19:14:29 GMT -5
why do so many people have no sympathy for Spottedleaf? Sure, she was in the wrong for loving Firestar, but she didn't deserve to be outright murdered. I’m not saying she deserved to die, I’m just saying I don’t really sympathize with her for the Firestar situation. I know this wasn’t directed at me specifically, but as one of the people who listed Spottedleaf, this is why, and I’d guess most others that put her don’t think she deserved to die either. I also put Appledusk, and while I really dislike him and don’t really sympathize with him for the whole situation, I still don’t think he deserved to die either. Not feeling sorry for a cat does not equal thinking they deserved to die, for me at least. I get you. I think there's a lot of characters I don't really feel sorry for but I didn't list because I did feel sorry for in some situation, just using spottedleaf for example. I felt sorry that she got killed but I didn't really feel sorry for her short-lived romance with Firestar. Idk, It's been a while since my last re read so a lot of characters I remember based off of how I remember them. If I remembered them in a favorable light, it was typically because I liked them as a character or they did something that made me respect them that drowned out the bad stuff.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on May 2, 2021 19:20:45 GMT -5
On the matter of Onestar, while I don't feel sorry for his actions, I do think there's something compelling about his meteoric downfall. He tried his best, but it wasn't enough. It never could be enough because he was always just going to be second best option, always the bridesmaid and never the bride in everything he did. His admiration for Firestar becomes twisted into hatred from spending so long in his shadow, and he is terrified that his clan will rebel on him again if he shows weakness.
I don't feel sorry for him, but it's tragic to see how far he fell. A lot of characters have the "ambition is evil" thing done poorly, Onestar is the only one where it feels real and I can empathize with his fear of not living up to what others expect of him. He can be summed up in the quote from Macbeth, " I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself and falls on th' other". A tragic figure, if not one who I mourn the death of.
|
|
|
Post by fishbreeze on May 2, 2021 19:22:43 GMT -5
On the matter of Onestar, while I don't feel sorry for his actions, I do think there's something compelling about his meteoric downfall. He tried his best, but it wasn't enough. It never could be enough because he was always just going to be second best option, always the bridesmaid and never the bride in everything he did. His admiration for Firestar becomes twisted into hatred from spending so long in his shadow, and he is terrified that his clan will rebel on him again if he shows weakness. I don't feel sorry for him, but it's tragic to see how far he fell. A lot of characters have the "ambition is evil" thing done poorly, Onestar is the only one where it feels real and I can empathize with his fear of not living up to what others expect of him. He can be summed up in the quote from Macbeth, " I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself and falls on th' other". A tragic figure, if not one who I mourn the death of. This is very nicely worded, it's an interesting way to look at things. His story always did remind me of Macbeth.
|
|
|
Post by MadameDelune on May 2, 2021 22:34:57 GMT -5
I don't feel bad for Rainflower, but I like her.
|
|
|
Post by scarletflames on May 3, 2021 1:39:47 GMT -5
Onestar- I've read up to CT, and this poor excuse for a leader put his own clan in danger multiple times for the sake of his pride and ego. I've heard his behavior gets even worse in AVOS. I don't care how insecure he might be, or any other reasons for his behavior, I'm just so tired of him by now! It's ironic that he probably was a worse leader in the end than Mudclaw would have been. One of the worst leaders in Warriors in my opinion.
Rainflower- her character screams Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I've had traumatic experiences with this particular disorder. Even if she doesn't meet the minimum criteria and just had severe Narcissistic fleas (it's been a long time since I've read CP, maybe she meets less criteria than I remember), I hate her guts for how she abused her kits (I believe making Oakheart the golden child was a form of emotional neglect since she didn't truly see him as an individual, and she very clearly abused Crookedstar by Scapegoating him).
Weather or not she's a narcissistic cat or one with the actual disorder of NPD, I cannot bring myself to feel any sympathy for her, or even feel neutral on her. I see no good in her whatsoever, no redeeming qualities. I hate everything about her. I have C-PTSD after years worth of Narcissistic abuse, I have years of my life I can't get back... I don't know if I can ever re-read Crookedstar's Promise because of how triggering and painful Rainflower's abuse was. It hit far too close to home for me to feel safe re-reading it. I might be splitting on her/de-valuing her, but she's one of the few cats I can never change my mind on or soften towards. I wish the Erins didn't send her to Starclan, after how severely she abused her kits without showing any remorse, insight, or positive changes to her behavior, much less emotions like empathy... I'd better move on to the next character.
Clear Sky- I skimmed DOTC when it first came out, but haven't read the whole arc yet. My memory's fuzzy, but Clear Sky kicking out Thunder was the final straw for me.
Lizardstripe- another child abuser who I'll never feel sorry for or change my mind on. I don't care if it was implied she didn't want kits- that's no freaking excuse to physically neglect and even physically abuse a helpless kit under your care! Rainflower still triggers me more, but Lizardstripe is a close second.
Sharpclaw from Skyclan's Destiny. I haven't finished SD yet, but him constantly undermining Leafstar and behaving in a smug and passive-aggressive manner really bugs me. I don't care if his heart is in the right place, his behavior really gets under my skin, and I'm only around halfway through the book. I think his behavior is absolutely terrible for a Deputy. Disagreeing with your leader is one thing, but his attitude makes me wanna scream.
Ashfur. While he has some similarities to Breezepelt and Hollyleaf (in the sense that Holly and Breeze threatened murder and so did Ash), I'm only going to put Ashfur on this list. I can move on from Breeze and Holly's past enough to where they are actually in my favorite characters list. But Ashfur? I might appreciate him more when I'm fully caught up with the series, but I cannot bring myself to feel sympathy for him now.
In the case of Hollyleaf, I can relate to the suffering of an identity crisis. With Breeze, I can relate to child abuse causing you to be susceptible to manipulation later in life. (I don't condone Holly or Breeze's past actions, however).
But with Ashfur... I don't actually believe he loved Squirrel, which was the excuse for his actions. So I don't sympathize with him at all since in my opinion, he didn't even truly love Squirrel. I can see him wanting to verbally hurt Squirrel after her rejection, or even attack or threaten her directly (not that I would condone this). But if he just targeted Squirrel, and it was shortly after the breakup (like the next day) I could see Yellowfang's terrible quote making more sense, since his wrath at the rejection would've been blind rage targeted to Squirrel alone. I still don't think this would mean he loved Squirrel in an unconditional, healthy way, this would be absolutely abusive, but in a sick, possessive, conditional and abusive manner, I could see how in this alternative universe, Yellowfang would think this sick possessiveness was close to love (again, I would still hate Ashfur for this and not condone this, and wish the Erins Dark Forest him in this alternative universe). (For the sake of this alternative universe, Ashfur would somehow die after going after Squirrel, and he would not have been murdered by Holly or any other canon events involving Ashfur after the breakup.)
But in canon, him taking out his pettiness on Squirrel's rejection on her kits and his own leader and her father? Attacking Lionblaze during that one scene and lashing out at him when he was mentoring Lion to the point where they didn't even have a normal or even neutral mentor-apprentice relationship? In my opinion, this is even further from anything resembling love than even that alternative universe from my first paragraph. His malice bleeding onto other cats is not his sick, twisted conditional love for Squirrel and pain over the rejection causing him to act irrationally. Him targeting cats around Squirrel to hurt her the most shows none of this was blind rage or really blinding pain on Ash's part causing him to act OOC. His actions were completely cold-blooded, if I'm remembering correctly, spanned years after Squirrel's rejection, starting with his attempted murder of Firestar. It was so calculated and cruel, I have a very hard time believing he just "loved too much" and was grieving and acting OOC. His actions remind me of malignant narcissism more than a grieving love-sick tomcat. I don't know if there will be any more insight on Ashfur later on in the series, but I cannot bring myself to sympathize with such a cold-blooded, calculated and malicious cat. I'm looking forward to reading TBC, but dreading it at the same time. I doubt my putting Ashfur on this list will change when I've caught up. I also hated how one of the field guides tried to paint him in a better light (it implied there were 2 sides to every story and he wasn't a trouble-maker like Squirrel and Bramble would say... in retrospect, this annoys me greatly! I don't have the direct quote, though).
Graystripe during Fire and Ice, but also his character in general after Fire and Ice. Same with Silverstream. Fire and Ice ruined Graystripe's character for me. Maybe I'll like him better after reading Graystripe's Vow, but I just don't like or sympathize with Graystripe.
Spottedleaf. I hated how she handled the Firestar love triangle, how overly-involved she was in his life and kits' lives, and Spottedleaf's Honest Answer made me dislike her even more. I can't bring myself to feel sorry for her.
Bluestar during TPB. I understand that she wasn't mentally well, but her petty naming of Brightpaw "Lostface", not giving any sympathy over the Snowkit situation, and overall incompetence and leader severely rubbed me the wrong way, to the point where while I understand her pain, I cannot bring myself to feel sorry for her.
Millie. Her severe emotional neglect towards Blossomfall, combined with her publicly shaming Blossomfall and guilt-tripping her (a pretty nasty type of emotional abuse), made me lose any sympathy I had for her, and I haven't been able to re-gain that sympathy.
Dovewing. I wish I felt more positively towards her since she has many fans and is headcanoned as Autistic, which as someone on the spectrum myself I can relate to her getting sensory overload and overwhelmed. She has positive character traits, good intentions... but I just don't like or sympathize with her, and haven't since I first read OOTS. She made many decisions I thought were selfish and showed poor judgement, didn't maturely communicate with Bumblestripe (not that Bumblestripe was Mr. Maturity himself, but still...) I don't know if I'll ever like or sympathize with Dovewing. I truly wish I could, but I almost can't stand her at this point. I liked her best in Dovewing's Silence, but other than that, I've just never sympathized with her or liked her.
|
|
|
Post by downfalls on May 3, 2021 17:24:54 GMT -5
Breezepelt. I never liked him from the start, but once he started trying to kill other cats, every single tiny bit of sympathy I had for him just disappeared.
Dovewing. I've never liked Dovewing, but I don't know why. I just feel that she was really whiny.
Crowfeather. He was okay at first, but I slowly started to dislike him as I got into TNP and POT. I feel that he was a bit too harsh with Leafpool's choice of clan over mate. Crowfeather's Trial is what made me hate him more.
Ashfur. I don't know why people like him. He literally tried to murder 3 children and Squirrelflight because of a love rejection for Starclan's sake! I never felt sorry for him.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on May 3, 2021 19:22:55 GMT -5
Oakstar, Ravenwing, Appledusk, Frecklewish - The last three didn't deserve death, but I also don't feel much pity for any of them
Ashfur - For obvious reasons.
Needletail - Girl brought her situation on herself, never takes blame, and still gets painted as a martyr? Girl. No.
Dovewing - In the Ivypool context, I think Ivypool is right to cut her off. She's flakey and does things because she can or wants to. Too much following heart, not enough following brain.
Onestar and Darktail - Bad people. Darktail having daddy issues doesn't excuse drowning people, and Onestar...is dumb
|
|
|
Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on May 3, 2021 19:39:25 GMT -5
Dovewing acts like an annoying entitled little cousin.
|
|
|
Post by halogen on May 3, 2021 23:17:09 GMT -5
But with Ashfur... I don't actually believe he loved Squirrel, which was the excuse for his actions. So I don't sympathize with him at all since in my opinion, he didn't even truly love Squirrel. I can see him wanting to verbally hurt Squirrel after her rejection, or even attack or threaten her directly (not that I would condone this). But if he just targeted Squirrel, and it was shortly after the breakup (like the next day) I could see Yellowfang's terrible quote making more sense, since his wrath at the rejection would've been blind rage targeted to Squirrel alone. I still don't think this would mean he loved Squirrel in an unconditional, healthy way, this would be absolutely abusive, but in a sick, possessive, conditional and abusive manner, I could see how in this alternative universe, Yellowfang would think this sick possessiveness was close to love (again, I would still hate Ashfur for this and not condone this, and wish the Erins Dark Forest him in this alternative universe). (For the sake of this alternative universe, Ashfur would somehow die after going after Squirrel, and he would not have been murdered by Holly or any other canon events involving Ashfur after the breakup.) That field guide (Cats of the Clans) was written before the fire scene and all that, so that's why it spoke so positively of him. From an in-universe perspective, though, it was Rock's narration and Rock is omniscient enough to be aware that Ashfur tried to kill Firestar...
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on May 3, 2021 23:34:18 GMT -5
But with Ashfur... I don't actually believe he loved Squirrel, which was the excuse for his actions. So I don't sympathize with him at all since in my opinion, he didn't even truly love Squirrel. I can see him wanting to verbally hurt Squirrel after her rejection, or even attack or threaten her directly (not that I would condone this). But if he just targeted Squirrel, and it was shortly after the breakup (like the next day) I could see Yellowfang's terrible quote making more sense, since his wrath at the rejection would've been blind rage targeted to Squirrel alone. I still don't think this would mean he loved Squirrel in an unconditional, healthy way, this would be absolutely abusive, but in a sick, possessive, conditional and abusive manner, I could see how in this alternative universe, Yellowfang would think this sick possessiveness was close to love (again, I would still hate Ashfur for this and not condone this, and wish the Erins Dark Forest him in this alternative universe). (For the sake of this alternative universe, Ashfur would somehow die after going after Squirrel, and he would not have been murdered by Holly or any other canon events involving Ashfur after the breakup.) That field guide (Cats of the Clans) was written before the fire scene and all that, so that's why it spoke so positively of him. From an in-universe perspective, though, it was Rock's narration and Rock is omniscient enough to be aware that Ashfur tried to kill Firestar... I just read that entry in Cats of the Clans again and it is amazingly funny. Maybe Rock is pulling a Yoda and just blatantly lying
|
|
|
Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on May 4, 2021 3:26:57 GMT -5
I don't feel sympathy for Shadowsight either. I preferred him when he was that mysteriously intelligent kit, but they seem to have changed him so much since then
|
|
|
Post by kells on May 4, 2021 6:40:22 GMT -5
I don't think I can ever feel sorry for Clear Sky
|
|
|
Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on May 6, 2021 13:30:53 GMT -5
Thunder, Mapleshade, Breezpelt, Onestar, Crowfeather, Willow Tail, Blossomfall, Bumblestripe, Bramblestar. But ugh... it sucks so much to see that so many people hate Star Flower and Clear Sky... I love both of them.
|
|
|
Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on May 6, 2021 21:07:14 GMT -5
I didn't like clear sky because he was kind of a jerk to just about everyone. The only character I genuinely liked in the DOTC books was Grey Wing.
|
|
|
Post by Lizard 🦎 on May 8, 2021 14:41:50 GMT -5
Clear Sky made DOTC so difficult.
|
|
|
Post by Brindlefern on May 8, 2021 18:22:38 GMT -5
Mapleshade, Clear Sky, Onestar, Blossomfall, Bramblestar, ASHFUR (Maybe had he let go of his shit from TNP before the fire scene I probably would've at least been like "That's unfortunately just how it be sometimes man" but now? LoL), Needletail, Bluestar, Spottedleaf, Star Flower, Raggedstar, Tom, Sleekwhisker, Rainflower, Moonflower, Leopardstar, Moonlight, TNP Stoneteller.
These books have a knack for making me hate characters in it to where if there's any sympathy I have for anyone (Or just the ability to feel sorry for their fates) just dies when I do.
|
|
|
Post by tallshadowstar on May 8, 2021 19:22:53 GMT -5
Moonflower. Bluepaw's grief at her death was heartbreaking, but destroying another Clan's herbs (in the midst of a battle, no less) is just awful and warrants retaliation. Plus, Goosefeather's Curse made me actively dislike her with how callous she was to her brother, so I feel even less sympathy for her.
|
|
#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
|
Post by *Ravenpaw* on May 8, 2021 20:03:03 GMT -5
Frickn' Clear Sky and Star Flower. Mapleshade for murder and breaking the code. Oakstar and Mapleshade's victims.
|
|