Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Apr 15, 2021 8:41:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Mothdapple on Apr 15, 2021 8:53:27 GMT -5
In the poll, I voted for maybe, only if their victims in life are willing to let them try to redeem themselves.
I think it also depends on the severity of their crimes as well, though.
I feel like if a character wants to try to redeem themselves, the cats who they hurt the most must be okay with it. If someone killed me, I wouldn’t be easy to try to let them redeem themselves. It would probably just piss me off even more lol.
I think some dark forest cats are irredemable based off what they’ve done in their life as well as The Great Battle. However, those who have done less and have had less severe crimes are definitely redeemable. This includes cats whose crimes in life we don’t know such as Snowtuft (I want a novella or SE on him so bad).
|
|
|
Post by fire on Apr 15, 2021 9:14:42 GMT -5
I think it all depends. Some cats are unworthy of redemption (i.e. Mapleshade), and even if they were to be redeemed and tolerated by their victims, they would still more than likely be shunned/ignored in StarClan. Some cats are worthy. If their crimes weren't severe, or if they were put in the Dark Forest unjustly (because StarClan isn't perfect), then I think if they want to redeem themselves and their victims (if they have any) are willing to forgive them, then they should be allowed into StarClan.
|
|
|
Post by wheeledwarrior on Apr 15, 2021 11:43:23 GMT -5
The problem is is that a lot of redemptions are rushed or not seen on screen. Blackstar and Hollyleaf are two very good examples (The latter even getting a mention of what happened to her). I’m also wondering if it goes both ways. It sounds as though part of the reason Ashfur became who he was is because those frustrations and regrets does build up without any personal resolution, and then it just boiled over into betraying everyone. I can see quite a few people also having that issue (Bluestar, Oakstar, Hollyleaf, Raggedstar, Mudclaw, Clear Sky, Blackstar, Needletail) and going the other direction. Furthermore, I feel like the only reason Snowtuft is shown as regretful and worth getting a redemption is not because he hasn’t done anything severe, but because he’s forgotten what he’s done. The latter is not at all the same as the former, and there’s nothing to say he didn’t do anything severe where are you should’ve unjustifiably ended up there. If we got to know more of his past, it would make sense, and maybe we will, but not remembering his crimes does not excuse him of them, regardless of what they were. This is why I always felt like warriors need something like purgatory, because there’s so many characters with the shades of gray and other related issues that it’s impossible to separate things as black-and-white. But the way the current system works, that’s all it does, so that’s why this series is running into and trying to address the issues it has now.
|
|
|
Post by cable on Apr 15, 2021 14:49:45 GMT -5
I think it all depends. Some cats are unworthy of redemption (i.e. Mapleshade) with cases like mapleshade, you have to argue the point of “would they even want to be redeemed”. redemption begins with the acknowledgement of wrong-doing, but cats like mapleshade and tigerstar 1 truly believe they did nothing wrong and every action they performed was righeous or justified to some capacity. some cats cant be redeemed because they simply dont believe they need it.
|
|
|
Post by Cheetahstar on Apr 15, 2021 14:53:09 GMT -5
I voted yes
people..er cats... can change
their victims dont need to accept this however
but as long as a cat exists, it thinks..and as long as it thinks it can learn, and as long as they can learn they can change
|
|
|
Post by fire on Apr 15, 2021 15:33:23 GMT -5
I think it all depends. Some cats are unworthy of redemption (i.e. Mapleshade) with cases like mapleshade, you have to argue the point of “would they even want to be redeemed”. redemption begins with the acknowledgement of wrong-doing, but cats like mapleshade and tigerstar 1 truly believe they did nothing wrong and every action they performed was righeous or justified to some capacity. some cats cant be redeemed because they simply dont believe they need it. I wasn't using Mapleshade in that example like she wants to be deemed, moreso that she's a cat who is unworthy of redemption even if she wanted it. I see what you're saying though.
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on Apr 16, 2021 1:14:40 GMT -5
Major villains, no. Cats like Snowtuft and Antpelt, etc., I don't remember what the heck they did, I guess. I don't care. But I don't want them to suddenly go happy and lovely and move into heaven.
|
|
|
Post by ʙʀᴀᴄᴋᴇɴꜱᴜɴ ♞ on Apr 16, 2021 6:32:26 GMT -5
I agree to an extent-- I believe that redemption is only possible if the motivation and want for doing so is completely pure and sincere. I expect that many cats that end up in the Dark Forest suddenly realize that they want to be good only because they realize how much of a dystopian, desolate and lonely place it is.
So, of course I believe a lot of cats want to try to redeem themselves, but not because they feel any sort of sympathy for the harm inflicted, but rather because they are sorry for themselves.
I don't believe the chance of redemption should end at death. Everybody has the capabilities to change, but only if its out of good will. Cats should not expect or warrant forgiveness, or be frustrated when they are met with hostility. If they want to change, that is up to them.
It takes only one person to change and redeem themselves, but two for forgiveness.
|
|
|
Post by *Faith* on Apr 16, 2021 14:58:40 GMT -5
Major villains, no. Cats like Snowtuft and Antpelt, etc., I don't remember what the heck they did, I guess. I don't care. But I don't want them to suddenly go happy and lovely and move into heaven. Antpelt was a WC cat who trained in the DF during OOTS. He was a fairly decent cat who ended up being killed by Thistleclaw and chose to go to the DF because, to him, the DF was more his home than WC ever was. By the very next book, he was just like every other DF cat and ended up being killed a second time by Ivypool.
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on Apr 16, 2021 19:39:03 GMT -5
Major villains, no. Cats like Snowtuft and Antpelt, etc., I don't remember what the heck they did, I guess. I don't care. But I don't want them to suddenly go happy and lovely and move into heaven. Antpelt was a WC cat who trained in the DF during OOTS. He was a fairly decent cat who ended up being killed by Thistleclaw and chose to go to the DF because, to him, the DF was more his home than WC ever was. By the very next book, he was just like every other DF cat and ended up being killed a second time by Ivypool. Okay, thanks for telling me
|
|
Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
|
Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Apr 17, 2021 16:20:35 GMT -5
In this poll I voted for: Maybe, but only if their victims in life are willing to let them try and redeem themselves.
I'm actually down for a sort of StarClan court that also determines the fate of Dark Forest cats which had a change of heart. They already have this for cats that died recently so why not for cats that committed wrongful acts and are now trying to make up for them. Of course, this is also entirely up to the severity of certain crimes and the cats themselves truly regretting what they did as there otherwise could just be another Ashfur situation.
Snowtuft is a character that would be perfectly suited for this new system as he has been dead for a while with not much being known of his past and fans of this series could learn more about him by reading such a scene. I also wanted to see something like this for Darkstripe where both Sorreltail and Stonefur confront him but he will probably continue doing his henchman job and get completely destroyed in the finale of TBC.
|
|