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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 11, 2021 13:58:30 GMT -5
no strictly platonic friendships, no close mentor-apprentice bond, no anything outside of romance. i would also include familial, but we hardly see it. sometimes, we'll see a protag's sibling say something here or there, but its not enough to show us a full blown established sibling relationship like in power of three with lion, jay, and holly (but once holly's gone, lion and jay dont get much brotherly moments as a family).
main reason for me bringing this up, is stormcloud... (a few others too but mainly him bc he's completely wasted in general)
stormcloud has a strong bond with both bramblestar and squirrelflight. bramblestar helped him and got him to join thunderclan, and squirrelflight was his MENTOR...and yet where is stormcloud in TBC where both bramble and squirrel r going through things? he hasn't had anything to do or say in recent books. im still heavily disappointed stormcloud hasn't risen up to become the next firestar. he also has a kittypet background and rose from his circumstances to become a warrior, and then...nothing. stormcloud has nothing and has done nothing.
if the writers remembered that cats can have bonds outside of romance, they would have remembered stormcloud's relationships with both bramblestar and squirrelflight and make him relavent in TBC...and same for squirrelflight's other apprentice, rosepetal. how did squirrelflight feel about rosepetal dying? and then rosepetal herself with all her apprentices. how did they feel when rosepetal died? bristlefrost has no relationships outside of romance, sparse familial, and sparse mutual aquaintances, so she hardly reacts or focuses on her mentors death, showing that the books no longer know how to write other types of relationships outside of cliche and insignifigant family comments or blown out romances.
i dont wanna ramble too much but the point is, they need to fix this problem otherwise, everything will become about shipping and nothing else signifigant. what little family screen time we get is so generic and cliche that it doesnt even feel like an actual bond (if that makes sense). i even think this goes back as far as TNP. as soon as sorreltail becomes a mom to brakcen's kits, she and leafpool stop being seen together as friends. theres no mention of them talking or hanging out or anything after TNP, so it makes us feel like sorrel ditched her friendship for her mate and kits. it feels like no one is allowed to have friends up to a certain point. if u think about it, not even squirrelflight has any friends in her clan. do we see her bonding with her relative whitewing? does she have a friend like how leafpaw had sorreltail up until she got with bracken? at least jayfeather was shown to have friendship with briarlight, but both cinderheart and poppyfrost stopped being friends with jayfeather once their relevance to him was handled.
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Post by Ponyboy on Apr 11, 2021 14:09:57 GMT -5
This post is 100 percent the truth and you should preach it from the Carpathians. I actually forgot that Rosepetal was Squirrelflight's apprentice until reading it on your post, that is how little mentor/apprentice relationships mean these days. We did not even have ANY hints of Dewspring x Nectarsong despite Dewspring being the mentor of Rootspring. I miss in the first arc, when mentors weren't just a short term teacher, but they were like a second parent figure.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 11, 2021 14:12:20 GMT -5
This post is 100 percent the truth and you should preach it from the Carpathians. I actually forgot that Rosepetal was Squirrelflight's apprentice until reading it on your post, that is how little mentor/apprentice relationships mean these days. We did not even have ANY hints of Dewspring x Nectarsong despite Dewspring being the mentor of Rootspring. I miss in the first arc, when mentors weren't just a short term teacher, but they were like a second parent figure. rootspring is even named after dewspring and i dont feel like they have any kind of bond whatsoever...and its even worse that there's no mention of rootspring's POV saying something like "dewspring was talking to nectarsong as rootspring walked up to him" or something like that. anything would have been better than nothing. and its also bad bc they time skipped all of rosepetal and toad's apprenticeships...it's just casually mentioned that "squirrelflight mentored rosepetal" and thats it lol they didnt even get to show it.
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Post by Ponyboy on Apr 11, 2021 14:15:19 GMT -5
This post is 100 percent the truth and you should preach it from the Carpathians. I actually forgot that Rosepetal was Squirrelflight's apprentice until reading it on your post, that is how little mentor/apprentice relationships mean these days. We did not even have ANY hints of Dewspring x Nectarsong despite Dewspring being the mentor of Rootspring. I miss in the first arc, when mentors weren't just a short term teacher, but they were like a second parent figure. rootspring is even named after dewspring and i dont feel like they have any kind of bond whatsoever...and its even worse that there's no mention of rootspring's POV saying something like "dewspring was talking to nectarsong as rootspring walked up to him" or something like that. anything would have been better than nothing. and its also bad bc they time skipped all of rosepetal and toad's apprenticeships...it's just casually mentioned that "squirrelflight mentored rosepetal" and thats it lol they didnt even get to show it. Right? I always found the fact that Squirrelflight mentored Rosepetal to be a bit stupid, because she mentored Foxleap, who isn't that much older than Rosepetal, and there were several other cats, BRIGHTHEART, BIRCHFALL, BERRYNOSE, who could have mentored her, but nope. I know that Berrynose is her older half-brother, but Poppyfrost mentored Lilyheart and Whitewing mentored Dewnose, so it's not like the clans even care about that anymore.
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Post by Rainsplash on Apr 11, 2021 18:06:03 GMT -5
So right
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 11, 2021 19:36:51 GMT -5
Yup, that's why I can't read the books like I could before: too much focus on romance and not enough value on literally every other type of relationship. Also ties into the issue of background cats not having enough attention--because if we did, we'd get more interactions between mentors/mentees and such. I think there's just not enough room to put in all this information in tbh. And too many characters which is why I believe most of the current-day cats need to die. I know people want a lot of the current characters to live but it's nearly impossible to develop anyone when there's so many characters just in each individual clan. i think part of the problem stems from not killing off old characters periodically to keep making room for new younger characters. if they did this throughout the series regularly, then the new gens would have had room to "replace" the older gen, get personality, other friendships, etc. but since they didnt, the new characters r just born, then forgotten about unless they're a protag relative (sibling is more likely to get speaking lines, just look at thriftear and lightleap right now). there could have been room to give the younger cats personality if they just kept the death rate up to regulate how many cats they can give personality to. i'd obviously prefer replacing the old gen with the new and give the new cats the personality and relationships to flesh out the clan POV. they just waited around too long to do this and preferred killing younger cats instead of work with them to give them personalities they could lead to on screen relationships.
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Post by fernshiine on Apr 11, 2021 19:43:02 GMT -5
The only cat they seemed to keep up with in that sense was Berrynose. It bothers me that most other cats don't seem to have those mentor-apprentice or friendship bonds aside from maybe the main characters, and even that's a stretch because a lot of the time they too are neglected for some reason.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 11, 2021 19:50:22 GMT -5
The only cat they seemed to keep up with in that sense was Berrynose. It bothers me that most other cats don't seem to have those mentor-apprentice or friendship bonds aside from maybe the main characters, and even that's a stretch because a lot of the time they too are neglected for some reason. i cant remember the last on screen mentor-apprentice bond? leafpool and jayfeather? not even lionblaze and dovewing were super close. ik they all spent time together bc of the prophecy and stuff, but idk if they were super close? maybe the last non-related one is leafpool and cinderpelt? i always felt they had a good on screen bond.
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Post by fernshiine on Apr 11, 2021 20:02:04 GMT -5
The only cat they seemed to keep up with in that sense was Berrynose. It bothers me that most other cats don't seem to have those mentor-apprentice or friendship bonds aside from maybe the main characters, and even that's a stretch because a lot of the time they too are neglected for some reason. i cant remember the last on screen mentor-apprentice bond? leafpool and jayfeather? not even lionblaze and dovewing were super close. ik they all spent time together bc of the prophecy and stuff, but idk if they were super close? maybe the last non-related one is leafpool and cinderpelt? i always felt they had a good on screen bond. Yeah. They did have a pretty decent bond. I was very disappointed that Hollyleaf never developed much of a bond with Brackenfur. When Ashfur died Lionblaze faked mourning him and ultimately faked having a bond with him because his Clanmates would've been suspicious if he didn't and he brought up the fact he "didn't have the normal mentor-apprentice bond" but at that point it honestly seemed ironic because barely any cats had a strong bond with their mentors, it seemed. Firestar and Bramblestar, I suppose, kept their bond. Firestar was a special case though and seemed to understand the importance of bonding with his apprentices more than most cats.
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 11, 2021 21:06:46 GMT -5
This is why I’m mad they retconned that Whiteclaw was Leopardstar’s apprentice because she held that grudge and anger towards Graystripe for moooons after he was killed. It was painfully obvious in the books how much she had cared for Whiteclaw.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 11, 2021 21:18:35 GMT -5
Moonblazerthey retconned that? aw dang...it would have been cool to keep it and then show some of it in her SE later...
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Post by Skunkblaze on Apr 11, 2021 21:20:57 GMT -5
These writers only care about a select few characters and their love interests. This series may as well be changed to Days of Our Lives: Warriors Edition..or wait rather Fire Family Edition because no one else matters and they never will.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 11, 2021 21:23:12 GMT -5
These writers only care about a select few characters and their love interests. This series may as well be changed to Days of Our Lives: Warriors Edition..or wait rather Fire Family Edition because no one else matters and they never will. true. i've been mocking warriors by calling it a soap opera for years now lmao. it's like firekin r the newmans and they're just involved in everything and r everywhere
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Post by Skunkblaze on Apr 11, 2021 21:24:16 GMT -5
These writers only care about a select few characters and their love interests. This series may as well be changed to Days of Our Lives: Warriors Edition..or wait rather Fire Family Edition because no one else matters and they never will. true. i've been mocking warriors by calling it a soap opera for years now lmao. it's like firekin r the newmans and they're just involved in everything and r everywhere Omg you're right lmao. You should get a title on here that says Thornclaw
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