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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 8:36:14 GMT -5
αɳσɱαʅყ Holy shit, you are really twisting my words and assuming stuff. But I'm done with this discussion.
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Post by αɳσɱαʅყ on Apr 8, 2021 9:05:31 GMT -5
@juniperclaw My intent isn't aggressive, but I am not understanding your stance completely. I realise the wording of "if you don't believe she deserves forgiveness" comes off as an assumption, but I'm not stating this as factual. I'm aware that there ARE fans who do not think she deserves forgiveness and I meant that as a "we can agree to disagree" as I wasn't sure if you held this opinion. I am trying to understand why you say the book are biased to Squirrelflight, because the examples you gave (she gets away with breaking rules, or is presented as right for doing so) can apply to a lot of other characters in the book as well, and it sounds like your argument is Squirrelflight gets more sympathetic presentation, so it is biased. Which, is not really fair because all fictional stories are constructed like this. Again, referring to my Mapleshade example.
I do want to know why you say that there's a bias, or what do you even define as a bias, because from my own definition (a tendency to present one perspective over the other), that's just in the nature of being a fictional story. If you don't want to continue this discussion, that's fine too. This topic is pretty draining and everyone has strong opinions, so it can be hard to express yourself clearly without being misread. Case in point, my not understanding you and vice versa.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 8, 2021 16:21:12 GMT -5
It baffles me that people think that Squirrelflight should get a free pass for being an insubordinating deputy just because she's mates with the leader. And then when this notion is denied the same people advocate that Bramblestar is abusive for punishing her accordingly as a leader and not as his mate??? What did everyone want him to do exactly? Just let her act out and go behind his back, do as she pleased, and involved some cats in her nonsense while endangering others? Not only did she lie to him about his own children, she shamed him for wanting to know his other siblings, and then later expected him to understand her decision with Leafpool. The hypocrisy around her character is so blatant it's not even funny. She undermined him several times in SqH, got their daughter to lie for her, put another clan leader in danger, got captured, and then embarrassed their clan in front of everyone. She was a deputy acting like an apprentice that got caught sneaking out, making decisions she had no right to make in the first place. And the same goes again for when she just up and let the Sisters into the middle of TC's camp without even consoling with Bramblestar first. Bramblestar made her deputy because he trusted her again. But obviously, that was a mistake and she doesn't deserve the position, nor was it a good idea in the first place if they're still mates. Also to paint Squirrelflight as an abuse victim when in the narrative she's clearly not, is just nonsensical.
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Post by ʙʀᴀᴄᴋᴇɴꜱᴜɴ ♞ on Apr 10, 2021 8:34:16 GMT -5
To me, Brambleclaw seems like a cat that was thought out to be good by the writers, but completely ruined in the process of giving him flaws. At first, his actions were understandable. He was, to put things bluntly, born into a Tigerstar-hate-groupchat. It's obvious that he had a disadvantaged start at life. Even the leader, Firestar, found it difficult to look past the origin of his roots.
Brambleclaw's flaws majorly overshadowed any of his reputable qualities. And this only got worse as he became leader of the clan. He's stubborn, self-obsessed with his heritage, borderline narcissistic and selfish in the way he behaves. When it comes to his kin, he becomes overly protective and deaf to any suspicions that others have, and has this weird infatuation with connecting clan opinions to the subject of his father once again.
In my opinion, Bramblestar is a mess of a character. He had amazing potential as the offspring of a mass murderer. He could have proved himself worthy in so many ways, but instead he has became what we know today. As a younger warrior, Brambleclaw was much more appealing. This idea that he is sort of confused with where he stands at life, unsure of what awaits him...it makes sense considering his youthfulness. It's the fact that he never has any character develop after ALL of these arcs that infuriates me so much.
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Post by mymerlincat on Apr 10, 2021 10:52:43 GMT -5
Moonkitti is awful (just like pretty much every Warriors analysis Youtuber). I’m surprised at how many people are trying to use her arguments as proof of anything
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Apr 10, 2021 17:11:46 GMT -5
Moonkitti is awful (just like pretty much every Warriors analysis Youtuber). I’m surprised at how many people are trying to use her arguments as proof of anything I mean, there are people who truly see her points, like the "cycle of abuse" point, and biased or not, not everyone agrees because she's famous, but because they actually agree with her points.
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Post by Brindlefern on Apr 10, 2021 17:15:57 GMT -5
Moonkitti is awful (just like pretty much every Warriors analysis Youtuber). I’m surprised at how many people are trying to use her arguments as proof of anything I mean, there are people who truly see her points, like the "cycle of abuse" point, and biased or not, not everyone agrees because she's famous, but because they actually agree with her points. Yeah like, I've had these opinions that Moonkitti shared even before her video (looooong before even). I didn't suddenly watch her video and start spouting "Bramblestar is abusive to Squirrelflight in some manner", it's completely possible to have an opinion, and then LATER see someone else share that opinion AND with a lot of stuff that reinforce it, and that makes those opinions you had before even stronger because of the evidence said other person gives for it validating it immensely. Like... yes, that is a concept that exists. I'm not suddenly some Moonkitti crony just because I think Bramble is the big A word to Squirrel. I have my own opinions and she just happens to share them, jaysus... x.x And I don't approve of those that bully people about Bramblestar either, it's just frustrating that when some folks are saying he's not the big A word, sometimes it tends to come with them saying that word goes to SQUIRRELFLIGHT or something and that just drives me up a wall.)
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 10, 2021 17:16:55 GMT -5
I’m more pissed that people use her video and her popularity as an excuse or permission to harass and bully people who like or liked Bramblestar and don’t see him as some monstrous abusive cat while Squirrelflight is portrayed as some meek child. It happens all the time when popular creators make biased videos because people do take it as the full truth and nothing less. Agree with it all you want, but don’t use biased points as some ammunition to attack people who don’t agree with you. And this is just more in general, not directed at any one individual.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Apr 12, 2021 9:39:52 GMT -5
He’s my favorite character and has been for a long time.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Apr 12, 2021 14:52:45 GMT -5
He's been my favorite ever since I first read Midnight.
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