Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Apr 5, 2021 17:16:28 GMT -5
I have seen a lot of recent Youtube comments, under videos about Brambleclaw x Squirrelflight content that is either for or against the couple, which suggest that Ashfur would have treated Squirrelflight better than Brambleclaw ever did and even indicate a return of the whole love triangle debate. This is especially becoming apparent in the comment section of Moonkitti's "Bramblestar is Worse" video essay.
I'm actually very shocked that fans could think in 2020/2021 that this is a great alternative, literal years after Ashfur conspired with Hawkfrost to murder Firestar because his leader's daughter rejected him, trying to kill her and The Orignal Three in a fire and now having returned from StarClan (which he didn't deserve to be put into) still causing her pain in the current arc.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 5, 2021 17:29:59 GMT -5
Warriors Youtube commenters are pretty much universally 13 year olds or even less mature than that, it's not exactly surprising. Anyway, I haven't seen any, it's probably just a few one off things.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 5, 2021 17:31:58 GMT -5
new readers r usually on the younger side and they're most likely the ones who r not mature enough to understand complicated relationship stories like ashfur's. i hope this doesn't become a wide spread thing again like years ago when ashfur fans were unironic lol
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Post by cable on Apr 5, 2021 18:04:57 GMT -5
i see it often said by people who think ashfur was “ruined” by the writers and that it could have been fine if bramble didnt exist. and then theres the far more frightening fans who say they relate to him post-tnp and say he would be a good mate if he was never dumped.
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Post by Rainsplash on Apr 5, 2021 18:47:54 GMT -5
I'm being forced to give up Ashfur Now AshSquirrel is disgusting ew If they still ship AshSquirrel that is just plain scary
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Post by mean and green on Apr 5, 2021 22:12:40 GMT -5
I wasn't in the fandom (or even reading the books) when this ship was popular and honestly don't think I'm ready to see a 2021 version of this shi(p)
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 6, 2021 1:12:00 GMT -5
and then theres the far more frightening fans who say they relate to him post-tnp and think say he would be a good mate if he was never dumped.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 6, 2021 1:16:09 GMT -5
Shipping SquirrelAsh was a big yikes even back in 2009 when he was fairly realistic and had some actual nuance. But in 2021, when he's completely transformed into typical evil villain without a shred of good in his entire body and the abuse is so obvious it's the point of the story? I'm backing away slowly from you. And by "slowly", I mean I'm sprinting in the other direction.
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Post by mapleleafsunset on Apr 6, 2021 1:51:35 GMT -5
Whilst I absolutely despise Bramble x Squirrel and do believe it to be abusive and incredibly unhealthy, that is no reason for people to ship Ash x Squirrel. I'm desperately hoping these are just young children who will realise how possessive and frankly obsessed Ashfur was as they grow older. That guy literally killed her dad and attempted to kill her children just because she ended a tiny little relationship. Ashfur sucks and so does Bramblestar, Squirrelflight should honestly just be single
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Post by αɳσɱαʅყ on Apr 6, 2021 6:45:19 GMT -5
Are they also forgetting who the Imposter is? The Imposter literally threatened and manipulated Squirrelflight the entire time they were in ThunderClan together. Not to mention, his goals now being based on some serious emotional instability and being unable to move on from the past. Why would he be a more suitable partner when he's demonstrated a) not being emotionally mature enough for a relationship and b) STILL is like that to this day.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 6, 2021 7:01:46 GMT -5
I'm a ship and let ship type of person but the blatant hypocrisy...of people trashing on Bramble because of moonkitti then preferring AshSquirrel...is a bit hard not to grimace at.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2021 20:01:58 GMT -5
I don't ship Ashfur with Squrrelflight. In fact. I don't ship Ashfur with ANYONE. He does not deserve a mate.
Ashfur even got soo dramatic when Squrrelflight rejected him.
Ashfur: "WAAH! WAHH! SQURRELFLIGHT REJECTED ME! WAAH!"
Brambleclaw: You okay my dude? (5 hours later)
Ashfur: WAHH! SQURRELFLIGHT SHOULD BE MY MATE!
Hawkfrost: Are you even gonna help me with the trap or just cry like a little baby?
(2 years later..)
Ashfur: This sucks! Everything sucks! Everyone should die!
Lionpaw: Oh hey Ashfur you wanna t-
Ashfur: LEAVE ME ALONE YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND ME!
Lionpaw: What the-
(Five months later...)
Ashfur: I will kill them! I will kill all three of them! Every single one! Then Squrrelflight will pay, and love me! And-
Jayfeather: Ashfur, do you mind plotting your evil plan somewhere else and not near the Medic entrance, Daisy is sleeping.
(a month later..)
Ashfur: Finally! I can kill you all three of you-
Squrrelflight: They ain't my kits.
(.....)
Ashfur: Excuse me-
(Three days later...)
Ashfur: I will reveal the secret! Then the clan will-
Hollyleaf: Hehe. And how will you do that? W H E N Y O U R D E A D !
Ashfur: What wha-
(A minute later)
Yellowfang: We should let him into Starclan. Everyone makes mistakes.
Bluestar: But he plotted with Hawkfrost to kill Firestar.
Yellowfang: That's fine.
Bluestar: He abused Lionpaw.
Yellowfang: That's fine.
Bluestar: he almost killed-
Yellowfang: T H A T ' S F I N E....
(Seven years later...)
Ashfur in Bramblestar's body: Finally! I have returned for you. My love-
Squrrelflight: That's amazing! You should greet your kits first!
Ashfur: K I T S? ....
Squrrelflight: Uh... Yeah? You wanna see them?
Ashfur: (Slowly pulls up a knife) Y E S...
(Woah... That was long..)
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Post by ʙʀᴀᴄᴋᴇɴꜱᴜɴ ♞ on Apr 9, 2021 19:17:27 GMT -5
I think it's about time Squirrelflight finds herself a good, buff anime babe.
To be honest with you, having a controversial past of being an avid SquirrelxAsh enthusiast wherein I spammed my fury everywhere about how Ashfur is the victim, and would've ultimately been the better choice had Squirrelflight never provoked him, can say that he is not the better choice. Neither of them are really suitable. Squirrelflight is rebellious, head-strong, and a cat that takes action when she believes is right. Bramblestar is equally as stubborn, and too just wants to do the best for his clan. They butt heads here, where they can never truly agree with one another unless it's on the terms of a serious clan crisis. Bramblestar is the type of cat to fully exploit his power in order to get what he wants. What he says goes. And so, in a toxic, malign way, he controls Squirrelflight and subtly takes advantage of the fact that he's the Clan leader. It's a miracle that these two ever found fleeting harmony in the first place. They HATED each other. It, to me, never made sense that they became mates. So, no matter how many times they make up, I'll always be unsteady.
As for Ashfur, let's not bother trying to warp and distort the truth here; he's absolutely psychotic. Sure, he had his fair share of rejection. He didn't ever really get a significant answer as to why Squirrelflight didn't choose him. He was patient, kind, and gave Squirrelflight the emotional and physical attention that she deserved and sought for. She used him, led him on, and convinced him that she liked him, just to then pick Brambleclaw. I understand his frustration in that sense, but what I don't understand is what he did after that. It's a shame, really. Ashfur was quite a likable character; it would've been nice if he could've just been like Thrushpelt. His actions in Long Shadows were despicable, and unforgivable. (And don't forget him being max evil and possessing Bramblestar. He's a danger to the clan.)
Truthfully speaking, I do believe that prior to Long Shadows, Ashfur not only would've treated Squirrelflight better, but also would be more suited to her. He wasn't as stubborn and rude to Squirrelflight, and I do believe he was willing to do anything for her because he loved her. Anything after that was no longer love, but hate. Ashfur loved deep, but hated deeper. And I think that's where it all went wrong. I do think that Bramblestar is the safer option. He has a weak heart, and lacks courage. I don't think he'd ever do anything as severe as Ashfur. I don't think he ever thinks about his actions towards Squirrelflight, making what he does and says to her baseless and harmless. This contrasts to Ashfur, who I believe wanted to inflict as much pain as possible. Bramblestar, though problematic in his own ways, is still better. He would never reach that level of disturbance. No matter how much you love (just like Ashfur), as long as there's a fueled anger that can easily be acted upon, you instantly become the worse option. I'd rather be safe than loved.
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foxstep
loves squirrelflight way too much
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Post by foxstep on Apr 9, 2021 19:19:38 GMT -5
even though he was good to her in starlight and twilight he still had toxic undertones and he would have been much worse than bramblestar anyways if he was willing to go that far over being rejected. i imagine he'd even kill her if he was in bramblestar's position with the kits situation. bramblestar sucks but at least he has basic morals.
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Post by heatherstorm on Apr 9, 2021 19:31:50 GMT -5
honestly, squirrelflight should probably just be single at this point. squirrelflight liberation 2021
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Post by Hollyfall on Apr 9, 2021 20:46:34 GMT -5
BrambleSquirrel ain't perfect but it's leagues better than whatever AshSquirrel could have been.
I see the comments from time to time saying that Ashfur would have been better if she chose him over Bramblestar, but, given his reaction to being rejected, I really don't think that's the case. This is the same guy who's reaction to her turning him down was to kill her father and kids, and later haunts her and her family from beyond the grave because he feels entitled to her and can't accept that she means no.
If that was his reaction to being turned down, (where Squirrelflight was polite and wanted to remain friends) lord knows what could happen if they were having the fights Bramblestar and Squirrelflight were in Squirrelflight's Hope. Ashfur would make a horrible mate, and he's just a straight up physical abuser as well.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 9, 2021 22:33:38 GMT -5
BrambleSquirrel ain't perfect but it's leagues better than whatever AshSquirrel could have been. I see the comments from time to time saying that Ashfur would have been better if she chose him over Bramblestar, but, given his reaction to being rejected, I really don't think that's the case. This is the same guy who's reaction to her turning him down was to kill her father and kids, and later haunts her and her family from beyond the grave because he feels entitled to her and can't accept that she means no. If that was his reaction to being turned down, (where Squirrelflight was polite and wanted to remain friends) lord knows what could happen if they were having the fights Bramblestar and Squirrelflight were in Squirrelflight's Hope. Ashfur would make a horrible mate, and he's just a straight up physical abuser as well. He already did physically abuse her. While in Bramble's body, Bristlefrost overhears him not only berating and yelling at her but also striking her, before dragging her out of the den and throwing her out. And then later at Moonpool he literally beats the living daylights out of her before kidnapping her. The mere fact that people think Bramble is any where near as bad as Ashfur boggles me, especially since he actually IS mentally, emotionally and physically abusive toward Squirrelflight.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Apr 10, 2021 10:36:36 GMT -5
I may hate Bramblestar and thinks he's abusive to Squirrelflight but... Ashfur just needs to burn.
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Post by Brindlefern on Apr 10, 2021 17:11:50 GMT -5
I may hate Bramblestar and thinks he's abusive to Squirrelflight but... Ashfur just needs to burn. Let's go back in time and knock him into that infamous fire from Long Shadows. It sounds like a good idea (Man, if that actually happened that book it'd be such karma).
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Apr 10, 2021 17:53:19 GMT -5
So we're going back to the 2011 mentality I see. I read Long Shadows for the first time when I was 11 and I could see that Ashfur just sucked in general from there. I know everyone is different but it's quite mind-boggling to see people saying this. Poor Bramblestar, so demonized by everyone.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Apr 11, 2021 13:36:23 GMT -5
No matter how badly Bramblestar treats Squirrelflight, Ashfur is just another bad partner. Even if he didin't go all "entitled incel" he was always overportective and tried to surpress her fire. He constantly wants to protect her when Squirrelflight needs to be independent, they wouldn't fit really well. And seeing how gross, entitled, and obsessive Ashfur has gone over Squirrelflight just for not having her as his mate, just imagine how he would react to not getting what he wants in the relationship. He's not fit to have a mate. That would just be sending Squirrelflight from one bad partner to another.
I don't understand this.
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Post by Tawnyfire on Apr 11, 2021 13:46:57 GMT -5
honestly whenever i hear about how ashfur is now, i just remember what he was like as an apprentice and try to figure what happened along the line to bring him where he is now.
still i don't agree with the ashsquirrel ship, maybe back when he was still well sensible and could be talked to i could see it happening long down the line. bramble and squirrel i could see up till a point, which for me was probably omen of the stars.
and yet, both are examples of irl relationships that are just as bad.
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Post by Rainsplash on Apr 11, 2021 17:46:54 GMT -5
Gods I've been rereading the posts I absolutely despise Ashfur Goodbye Ashpaw
I may hate BrambleSquirrel, it's literally the worst canon "loving" ship in this universe, because it boils my blood, but AshSquirrel is way worse than that now. I shipped AshSquirrel and wished Brambleclaw could go crawl and stay in a hole for good in Starlight, I am so, so disgusted.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Apr 11, 2021 22:36:43 GMT -5
quietly escapes out back door
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Post by Brindlefern on Apr 12, 2021 7:21:52 GMT -5
Here we go with people throwing around the abuse word left and right Ashfur atm literally IS abusive tho, in all kinds of it. Like... the dude literally beat Squirrelflight unconscious and threw her off a ledge and dragged her to hell so that he can isolate her and be with her.
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Post by Hollyfall on Apr 12, 2021 21:21:18 GMT -5
Here we go with people throwing around the abuse word left and right Ashfur atm literally IS abusive tho, in all kinds of it. Like... the dude literally beat Squirrelflight unconscious and threw her off a ledge and dragged her to hell so that he can isolate her and be with her. Just adding onto this, he literally kills and steals Bramblestar's body just to pretend to be him and to be with her. He manipulates and guilts Squirrelflight into staying in ThunderClan's camp with him in The Silent Thaw. Hell in The Place of No Stars he outright says "I love you and don't want to hurt you", and then proceeds to take control of Bramblestar's ghost and forces him to attack her. He tries to control her (namely in The Silent Thaw and The Place of No Stars) and dictate how she acts because of his immense sense of entitlement. He was like this in TNP too, trying to stay close to her and more or less influence how she acts. He even tries to guilt her into not being Brambleclaw's mate by reminding her that Tigerstar killed Brindleface. The abuse doesn't even end with Squirrelflight. He targets those she's close to and takes it out on them. He's tried to kill Lionblaze, Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Sparkpelt. During his reign of ThunderClan, he was verbally abusive to Alderheart. I mentioned this earlier, but I honestly think he was emotionally abusive to Lionpaw too, constantly switching between belittling him and praising him. He's threatened Squirrelflight's grandchildren, and holds half the responsibility of killing Firestar and Bramblestar. With Bramblestar he literally takes him prisoner in the Dark Forest and makes Bramblestar fight his mate out of nothing but jealously and spite towards him for "stealing" Squirrelflight from him, as Ashfur himself puts it. Imagine would could have happened if she and Ashfur had arguments or disagreements? With Bramblestar it's mostly just bickering back and forth, but with Ashfur, who's completely willing to harm and kill those she loves, it's quite a scary thought to think about what he might do. Like honestly, say what you will about Bramblestar, but he is nowhere near the level of awful, gross, obsessive, selfish, and abusive Ashfur is. It genuinely baffles me that people think Ashfur would be the better choice when all the instances, even before TBC, prove he isn't.
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