Post by Tawnyfire on Mar 16, 2021 6:12:42 GMT -5
im going to hope this is where this thread should go and i did talk about this on the smaller WoF Amino if anyone has seen it.
this is mostly a discussion, but i could definitely help figure out a genetic thing for your oc's and such if your up to discussing them with me. just a heads up, the genetics probably won't work the way you expect for allwings.
This is more of a rabbit hole then you'd think and oh boy, hivewing and silkwing genetics are a rabbit hole within a rabbit hole. So Down the rabbit hole's we go
First up, is how the genetic's will be shown/represented. i'll get to hivewing's and silkwing's later on as their a bit more complicated.
Icewings - II
Leafwings - LL, Ll
Leaf speak - ll
Mudwings - MM, Mm
Fire proof scales - mm
Nightwings - NN
Rainwings - RR, Rr
Blindness - rr
Sandwings - SS
Seawings - EE
Skywings - KK, Kk
Firescales/Ashscales - kk
Animus magic - aa
Mindreading and future sight are canonically not genetic, they are dictated by the moons. this won't include any fan things like Icescales, venom scales etc. canon stuff only. There's no evidence of any of other tribe having members that are hatched blind aside from Tamarin, so im amusing either its a rainwing thing or blind dragonets get killed/die early in other tribes.
Note: Ashscales is what i call dragonets with too little fire.
We'll start with Animus magic, as it's honestly the easiest thing to explain thanks to darkstalker's family :3
Foeslayer or Hope as she's now called is a nightwing with no animus magic.
she could be NN or Na
Arctic is an icewing with animus magic
he's aa
This is where it get's interesting, darkstalker is an animus and therefore must be aa and in turn this means Foeslayer has to be Na rather then NN. Here's where i bring in everyone's favorite biology thing; Punnet Squares. to be able to show you why foeslayer is Na rather then NN.
let's say foeslayer was NN and arctic was aa
as you can see they'd only be able to have Na kids or dragonets who aren't animus but carry the animus magic gene.
Foeslayer being Na is the key to what allowed Darkstalker to be aa; which is shown below.
Foeslayer and Arctic had a 50/50 chance of having dragonets without or with animus magic. which, they both had been hoping they didn't, which if i remember right whiteout's magic/abilities were buried deep inside due to hatching a night late.
Animus magic is shown to be genetic and it's more then likely a Reccessive trait, this is why i believe Foeslayer carries the animus gene. otherwise Darkstalker never would have animus magic if it truly wasn't possible in other tribes. Other tribe's who aren't shown to have animus dragons, have the possibility of having animus dragons even if they haven't been seen yet in canon.
Still on the topic of animus magic, we move on to Stonemover and sunny.
Stonemover is an aa indefinitely, meaning his parents were either both Na's, an Na and an aa or two aa's. more then likely they were just two Na's who got lucky with that 25% chance of an aa dragonet.
Thorn is a bit tricker, we know nothing of her family history and she could be SS or Sa. i'm going to show both ofc, but i'm sure you can already guess how it looks.
No matter which thorn is, i think it's clear Sunny is an Sa as we've never seen her show any sign of animus magic. i doubt thorn and Stonemover will ever be able to have another dragonet, but them having another dragonet could help say whether Thorn was truly SS or Sa. However, Sunny has the possibility of having an animus dragonet if she ever has a mate who carries the gene or is animus themself.
Now we move on to Firescales/Ashscales
Unlike animus magic, these guys as far as i know, aren't ever given the chance to reproduce. firescales i can get not being able too and ashscales may be too weak to even have dragonets, but we have no clue as nothing is mentioned in canon that i remember.
Peril is the only canon firescale we know of, so she's kk along with her deceased brother.
Now, peril's genetic's are a bit odd considering her dad was a shapeshifted Chameleon, well i might be able to explain that.
Chameleon never specified genetic's when making his different forms, so that could mean they were randomly generated about creation otherwise pureblood skywing could default to KK and peril nor her brother would've had th reccessive trait of firescales/ashscales.
Chameleon as Soar was randomly selected by the magic to be Kk
Kestrel would've had to be Kk herself or as said before, no firescale/ashscale dragonets would've been hatched.
Soar and Kestral got lucky with peril and her brother as it was 25% percent chance. peril and her brother had a 75% chance of just being normal everyday skywing's, meaning we might have seen peril interact with her brother by the time the DoD came around.
Now due to the nature of firescales, i'm unsure if peril would ever be able to have dragonets, sure she's health and could definitely bear having them. but her scales are the issue.
As for her brother, he wasn't female so he may in fact might have been able to have dragonets, but that was only if he survived long enough to. A female ashscale dragonet might be too weak in general to bear dragonets. if they were able to, im sure it would leave them rather weak and the dragonet's that hatch might be affected by this.
Next up is Tamarin with her blindness, she's the only hatched blind character we've seen and it could be assumed only rainwings have this. Im going off the view of only rainwings have this, but it could just very well be that rainwings are simply the only ones to not kill blind dragonets(skywings might do this) or keep such a watchful eye on them, since many things could kill a blind dragonet if they haven't adjusted to navigating their surroundings.
Tamarin is an rr and we have no clue who her parents are. but with no other living rainwing being blind or at least, not mentioned, its safe to assume her parents were both Rr.
However, it can also be assumed that rainwing's with light blue eyes could be blind or that blue eyes tend to indicate that dragon has something affecting their vision(blindness, colorblindness, etc). in that way it could be like how White fur cats with blue eyes tended to be deaf, but with cloudtail being an exception perhaps there could be a rare expection to the blue eyed rainwings having impaired vision.
Now for Clay's Fireproof scales, which mudwings hatch with sibs and cause i go by the notion that mudwing sibs all share the same parents or at least share one parent, more so the father then mother as its unknown if dragons canonically can have more then one egg at a time. I'm going to go with clay shares the same parents with his sibs, otherwise that'd be quite alot of punnet squares to do for each of them.
Clay has firescales, where as his sibs do not and niether does his mother and we know nothing of his father.
His mother is Mm since she had a fireproof dragonet and his father could be Mm or mm, im going to say he was Mm cause only clay has firescales out of his siblings.
so like this Clay is in the 25% of mm and at least one of his sibs is in the other 25% of MM, meaning one of them can't have dragonets with fireproof scales. this leaves the rest of sibs possibly being in the 50% of Mm.
I can't say for sure which his sibs are, so guessing is the only way currently, at least until they themselves have dragonets and we know of them.
Leafspeak, now i haven't read The Poison jungle or anything after it and i may use example dragons since sundew is just straight forward since both her parents have leafspeak as well.
Hawthorn and Belladonna are both ll and therefore can only have dragonets with ll like sundew.
as you can see, they are very straight forward genetic wise. So, now we'll have some Example Dragon pairins.
Leafwing1 and Leafwing2 will be LL and ll
They would only be able to have Ll dragonets, meaning they carry the Leafspeak gene.
Now, if we pair Leafwing2 with Leafwing3 who's Ll, there's only 25% possiblity of a dragonet not having leafspeak but they still carry the gene for it.
However, maybe Leafwing3 ends up with Leafwing4 instead who has the same genes (Ll). Their dragonet's have a 25% chance of having leafspeak, a 50% chance of carrying the leafspeak gene and a 25% of not having leafspeak nor carrying the gene.
or how about Leafwing4 being paired with leafwing1, they would have a 50/50 chance of their dragonets carrying the leafspeak gene or not carrying it at all.
if your wondering about what LL and LL looks like, it looks about the same as two ll's.
I think that was all the possible leafspeak pairings i could do here.
Now this is where thing's get complicated cause we're entering hybrid, Hivewing and Silkwing territory.
Now idk if this is a spoiler or not, but Hivewing's and Silkwings are (to my knowledge) hybrids that evolved into their tribes. specifically Beetle-Night hybrids because of clearsight having dragonets with a beetlewing 2000 years before the point in the series we're at. I'm not so good with punnet squares beyond whats above, but i shall try my best :3
First, just to get started i want to start with some example dragons again. why you may ask? because i spent 30 minutes attempting the hive and silk genetics, before i stopped trying and honestly gave up temporarily. For this i'll use Nightwing1 and Seawing1 for the examples, small reminder if you don't want to scroll all the way up to the Nightwings are represented as NN and seawings are represented as EE, however hybrids aren't always a perfect mix of both, sometimes their more of one tribe then another. so let's make a small change to both.
Nightwings - NNnn
Seawings - EEee
NNEE / NnEe / eenn - Dragon who has traits from both tribes, neither more dominant then others.
NNEe / NnEE - Dragon is slightly more Nightwing/Seawing, but their Seawing/Nightwing traits are still noticeable.
NNee / EEnn - Dragon is more Nightwing/Seawing and their Seawing/Nightwing traits are easily missed.
Nnee / Eenn - Dragon could pass as a regular Nightwing/Seawing with only a few Seawing/Nightwing traits.
This could work for any hybrid pairing as long as it's only 2 tribes.
now after that, we can move on to Beetlewing and Nightwing hybrids which will lead into Silk and Hivewings.
Beetlewings will be represented by BBbb
Nightwings will be represented as NNnn
BBNN / BbNn / nnbb - like before they have traits from both tribes
BBNn / BbNN - They have slightly more traits from one tribe then the other
BBnn / NNbb - Has more traits from one tribe showing then the other
Bbnn / Nnbb - They could pass as one tribe with few traits from the other tribe
this is what the silkwing and hivewings started off as, the real question is which genes evantually went on to develop their own tribes over 2000 years.
Silkwings have firesilk, which is from the nightwing side and yet they have more beetlewing traits that show.
Hivewings have the black scales and seemingly take after nightwings more then beetlewings, aside from their abilities ofc.
Silkwings are likely BBNn or Bbnn, seeing as their only nightwing trait is their firesilk, which is a combination of beetlewing silk and nightwing firebreath.
Hivewings im more unsure about, they could be BBNN/BbNn/nnbb or BbNN. since their abilities dont come from either nightwings nor beetlewings(going off wiki), so their abilites may be mutations in their genes or combinations of two existing abilities in nightwings and beetlewings.
More TBA
This is all i'm going to do for now, but feel free to add on to or expand on whats already here. I'll being adding more over time, so stay tuned if your interested.
This is more of a rabbit hole then you'd think and oh boy, hivewing and silkwing genetics are a rabbit hole within a rabbit hole. So Down the rabbit hole's we go
First up, is how the genetic's will be shown/represented. i'll get to hivewing's and silkwing's later on as their a bit more complicated.
Icewings - II
Leafwings - LL, Ll
Leaf speak - ll
Mudwings - MM, Mm
Fire proof scales - mm
Nightwings - NN
Rainwings - RR, Rr
Blindness - rr
Sandwings - SS
Seawings - EE
Skywings - KK, Kk
Firescales/Ashscales - kk
Animus magic - aa
Mindreading and future sight are canonically not genetic, they are dictated by the moons. this won't include any fan things like Icescales, venom scales etc. canon stuff only. There's no evidence of any of other tribe having members that are hatched blind aside from Tamarin, so im amusing either its a rainwing thing or blind dragonets get killed/die early in other tribes.
Note: Ashscales is what i call dragonets with too little fire.
We'll start with Animus magic, as it's honestly the easiest thing to explain thanks to darkstalker's family :3
Foeslayer or Hope as she's now called is a nightwing with no animus magic.
she could be NN or Na
Arctic is an icewing with animus magic
he's aa
This is where it get's interesting, darkstalker is an animus and therefore must be aa and in turn this means Foeslayer has to be Na rather then NN. Here's where i bring in everyone's favorite biology thing; Punnet Squares. to be able to show you why foeslayer is Na rather then NN.
let's say foeslayer was NN and arctic was aa
| N | N | |
| a | Na | Na |
| a | Na | Na |
as you can see they'd only be able to have Na kids or dragonets who aren't animus but carry the animus magic gene.
Foeslayer being Na is the key to what allowed Darkstalker to be aa; which is shown below.
| N | a | |
| a | Na | aa |
| a | Na | aa |
Foeslayer and Arctic had a 50/50 chance of having dragonets without or with animus magic. which, they both had been hoping they didn't, which if i remember right whiteout's magic/abilities were buried deep inside due to hatching a night late.
Animus magic is shown to be genetic and it's more then likely a Reccessive trait, this is why i believe Foeslayer carries the animus gene. otherwise Darkstalker never would have animus magic if it truly wasn't possible in other tribes. Other tribe's who aren't shown to have animus dragons, have the possibility of having animus dragons even if they haven't been seen yet in canon.
Still on the topic of animus magic, we move on to Stonemover and sunny.
Stonemover is an aa indefinitely, meaning his parents were either both Na's, an Na and an aa or two aa's. more then likely they were just two Na's who got lucky with that 25% chance of an aa dragonet.
Thorn is a bit tricker, we know nothing of her family history and she could be SS or Sa. i'm going to show both ofc, but i'm sure you can already guess how it looks.
| S | S | |
| a | Sa | Sa |
| a | Sa | Sa |
| S | a | |
| a | Sa | aa |
| a | Sa | aa |
No matter which thorn is, i think it's clear Sunny is an Sa as we've never seen her show any sign of animus magic. i doubt thorn and Stonemover will ever be able to have another dragonet, but them having another dragonet could help say whether Thorn was truly SS or Sa. However, Sunny has the possibility of having an animus dragonet if she ever has a mate who carries the gene or is animus themself.
Now we move on to Firescales/Ashscales
Unlike animus magic, these guys as far as i know, aren't ever given the chance to reproduce. firescales i can get not being able too and ashscales may be too weak to even have dragonets, but we have no clue as nothing is mentioned in canon that i remember.
Peril is the only canon firescale we know of, so she's kk along with her deceased brother.
Now, peril's genetic's are a bit odd considering her dad was a shapeshifted Chameleon, well i might be able to explain that.
Chameleon never specified genetic's when making his different forms, so that could mean they were randomly generated about creation otherwise pureblood skywing could default to KK and peril nor her brother would've had th reccessive trait of firescales/ashscales.
Chameleon as Soar was randomly selected by the magic to be Kk
Kestrel would've had to be Kk herself or as said before, no firescale/ashscale dragonets would've been hatched.
| K | k | |
| K | KK | Kk |
| k | Kk | kk |
Soar and Kestral got lucky with peril and her brother as it was 25% percent chance. peril and her brother had a 75% chance of just being normal everyday skywing's, meaning we might have seen peril interact with her brother by the time the DoD came around.
Now due to the nature of firescales, i'm unsure if peril would ever be able to have dragonets, sure she's health and could definitely bear having them. but her scales are the issue.
As for her brother, he wasn't female so he may in fact might have been able to have dragonets, but that was only if he survived long enough to. A female ashscale dragonet might be too weak in general to bear dragonets. if they were able to, im sure it would leave them rather weak and the dragonet's that hatch might be affected by this.
Next up is Tamarin with her blindness, she's the only hatched blind character we've seen and it could be assumed only rainwings have this. Im going off the view of only rainwings have this, but it could just very well be that rainwings are simply the only ones to not kill blind dragonets(skywings might do this) or keep such a watchful eye on them, since many things could kill a blind dragonet if they haven't adjusted to navigating their surroundings.
Tamarin is an rr and we have no clue who her parents are. but with no other living rainwing being blind or at least, not mentioned, its safe to assume her parents were both Rr.
| R | r | |
| R | RR | Rr |
| r | Rr | Rr |
However, it can also be assumed that rainwing's with light blue eyes could be blind or that blue eyes tend to indicate that dragon has something affecting their vision(blindness, colorblindness, etc). in that way it could be like how White fur cats with blue eyes tended to be deaf, but with cloudtail being an exception perhaps there could be a rare expection to the blue eyed rainwings having impaired vision.
Now for Clay's Fireproof scales, which mudwings hatch with sibs and cause i go by the notion that mudwing sibs all share the same parents or at least share one parent, more so the father then mother as its unknown if dragons canonically can have more then one egg at a time. I'm going to go with clay shares the same parents with his sibs, otherwise that'd be quite alot of punnet squares to do for each of them.
Clay has firescales, where as his sibs do not and niether does his mother and we know nothing of his father.
His mother is Mm since she had a fireproof dragonet and his father could be Mm or mm, im going to say he was Mm cause only clay has firescales out of his siblings.
| M | m | |
| M | MM | Mm |
| m | Mm | mm |
so like this Clay is in the 25% of mm and at least one of his sibs is in the other 25% of MM, meaning one of them can't have dragonets with fireproof scales. this leaves the rest of sibs possibly being in the 50% of Mm.
I can't say for sure which his sibs are, so guessing is the only way currently, at least until they themselves have dragonets and we know of them.
Leafspeak, now i haven't read The Poison jungle or anything after it and i may use example dragons since sundew is just straight forward since both her parents have leafspeak as well.
Hawthorn and Belladonna are both ll and therefore can only have dragonets with ll like sundew.
| l | l | |
| l | ll | ll |
| l | ll | ll |
as you can see, they are very straight forward genetic wise. So, now we'll have some Example Dragon pairins.
Leafwing1 and Leafwing2 will be LL and ll
They would only be able to have Ll dragonets, meaning they carry the Leafspeak gene.
| l | l | |
| L | Ll | Ll |
| L | Ll | Ll |
Now, if we pair Leafwing2 with Leafwing3 who's Ll, there's only 25% possiblity of a dragonet not having leafspeak but they still carry the gene for it.
| l | l | |
| L | Ll | ll |
| l | ll | ll |
However, maybe Leafwing3 ends up with Leafwing4 instead who has the same genes (Ll). Their dragonet's have a 25% chance of having leafspeak, a 50% chance of carrying the leafspeak gene and a 25% of not having leafspeak nor carrying the gene.
| L | l | |
| L | LL | Ll |
| l | Ll | ll |
or how about Leafwing4 being paired with leafwing1, they would have a 50/50 chance of their dragonets carrying the leafspeak gene or not carrying it at all.
| L | L | |
| L | LL | LL |
| l | Ll | Ll |
if your wondering about what LL and LL looks like, it looks about the same as two ll's.
I think that was all the possible leafspeak pairings i could do here.
Now this is where thing's get complicated cause we're entering hybrid, Hivewing and Silkwing territory.
Now idk if this is a spoiler or not, but Hivewing's and Silkwings are (to my knowledge) hybrids that evolved into their tribes. specifically Beetle-Night hybrids because of clearsight having dragonets with a beetlewing 2000 years before the point in the series we're at. I'm not so good with punnet squares beyond whats above, but i shall try my best :3
First, just to get started i want to start with some example dragons again. why you may ask? because i spent 30 minutes attempting the hive and silk genetics, before i stopped trying and honestly gave up temporarily. For this i'll use Nightwing1 and Seawing1 for the examples, small reminder if you don't want to scroll all the way up to the Nightwings are represented as NN and seawings are represented as EE, however hybrids aren't always a perfect mix of both, sometimes their more of one tribe then another. so let's make a small change to both.
Nightwings - NNnn
Seawings - EEee
| NN | Nn | nn | |
| EE | NNEE | NnEE | EEnn |
| Ee | NNEe | NnEe | Eenn |
| ee | NNee | Nnee | eenn |
NNEE / NnEe / eenn - Dragon who has traits from both tribes, neither more dominant then others.
NNEe / NnEE - Dragon is slightly more Nightwing/Seawing, but their Seawing/Nightwing traits are still noticeable.
NNee / EEnn - Dragon is more Nightwing/Seawing and their Seawing/Nightwing traits are easily missed.
Nnee / Eenn - Dragon could pass as a regular Nightwing/Seawing with only a few Seawing/Nightwing traits.
This could work for any hybrid pairing as long as it's only 2 tribes.
now after that, we can move on to Beetlewing and Nightwing hybrids which will lead into Silk and Hivewings.
Beetlewings will be represented by BBbb
Nightwings will be represented as NNnn
| BB | Bb | bb | |
| NN | BBNN | BbNN | NNbb |
| Nn | BBNn | BbNn | Nnbb |
| nn | BBnn | Bbnn | nnbb |
BBNN / BbNn / nnbb - like before they have traits from both tribes
BBNn / BbNN - They have slightly more traits from one tribe then the other
BBnn / NNbb - Has more traits from one tribe showing then the other
Bbnn / Nnbb - They could pass as one tribe with few traits from the other tribe
this is what the silkwing and hivewings started off as, the real question is which genes evantually went on to develop their own tribes over 2000 years.
Silkwings have firesilk, which is from the nightwing side and yet they have more beetlewing traits that show.
Hivewings have the black scales and seemingly take after nightwings more then beetlewings, aside from their abilities ofc.
Silkwings are likely BBNn or Bbnn, seeing as their only nightwing trait is their firesilk, which is a combination of beetlewing silk and nightwing firebreath.
Hivewings im more unsure about, they could be BBNN/BbNn/nnbb or BbNN. since their abilities dont come from either nightwings nor beetlewings(going off wiki), so their abilites may be mutations in their genes or combinations of two existing abilities in nightwings and beetlewings.
More TBA
This is all i'm going to do for now, but feel free to add on to or expand on whats already here. I'll being adding more over time, so stay tuned if your interested.
