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Post by π―ππππ¦π±π£π―π¬π°π± on Mar 13, 2021 12:31:36 GMT -5
There are so many cats (ahem, overpopulation in ThunderClan), but none of them get any development unless they are the protagonists or have a direct relationship with the protagonists - and even then, one could argue that it's still minimal development at best. In the first three or four arcs, I felt like we really got the chance to get to know the more background characters - there was a time when looking at the ThunderClan allegiances we'd know every cat listed, as well as their personalities. Even the most minor background characters had significant development and we got to know them. And as much as I love having POVs in multiple Clans now, I feel like by trying to force multiple Clan perspectives, we lose out on development within one or two Clans, so we don't know many of the characters anymore. I'd love to feel some kind of attachment to cats like Honeyfur, Plumstone, etc., but we literally don't know anything about them. And having two arcs now with POVs in ShadowClan and SkyClan, I still can't say I feel any particular attachment to background ShadowClan and SkyClan cats, because again, they don't give us the opportunity to get to know them well.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Mar 13, 2021 12:53:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I feel like they're trying to focus on Clans as wholes now, not the individual characters who live within them.
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Post by π₯Firestarπ₯ on Mar 13, 2021 13:27:58 GMT -5
Ever since A Vision of Shadows the background characters have stopped being developed, possibly because the Clan has grown in size so much that the protagonist rarely interacts with half of the Clan. If i take a look through the allegiances of Long Shadows, i can list atleast multiple traits about each cat. But in the most recent arcs, i can barely say anything, and if i can, it's only one or two traits. I can't tell the personality of Honeyfur, Leafshade, Plumstone, Baypaw, Finchpaw, and Sorrelstripe. Homever i can say things about Frostfur, Rosepetal, Runningwind, Willowpelt, Foxleap, Honeyfern, Hazeltail and even Speckletail.
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Post by ααͺα α½ αΎf fαͺαα αΎms γβ on Mar 13, 2021 13:56:12 GMT -5
older characters should be dying off...instead, they keep making characters have kits but then not giving them personalities..there needs to be a balance of both so the clans have smaller numbers so that they CAN give everyone a background personality to be seen...and it doesnt help that the POV chapters in the clan camps dont show us what other cats are doing or saying in the background like they used to...in shadowclan, we never really read about anyone in the background or who is around, etc.
killing new/young cats isnt the solution. killing off older characters and limiting the amount of new kits is the solution. thats my take to getting personalities for everyone.
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Post by π±ππππππππππ on Mar 13, 2021 16:31:27 GMT -5
I said it a couple of times already but one more won't hurt...
PURGE!
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Post by π₯Firestarπ₯ on Mar 13, 2021 16:35:55 GMT -5
I said it a couple of times already but one more won't hurt... PURGE! Purge Purge! And let the older cats fade already please! ( Looking at you, Mistystar, Cloudtail, Brightheart, Graystripe and Thornclaw!)
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
αΉ’anΙypawβ’
The Shiny User
π΅Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy goπ΅
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Post by αΉ’anΙypawβ’ on Mar 13, 2021 19:30:41 GMT -5
*inhales* PURGE! Book 6 battle better be a bloody one in terms of deaths or I'll riot.
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Post by π―ππππ¦π±π£π―π¬π°π± on Mar 13, 2021 20:04:31 GMT -5
I 100% agree there needs to be a purge. They're so focused on making new characters rather than developing the characters they already have. As someone who loves creating new characters, I get it - overfill the Clans that aren't gonna get any attention and give the POV clans some real development. I feel like ever since they've started dividing the POV between multiple Clans (so, like π₯Firestarπ₯ said, AVOS) they haven't been giving the POV Clans enough time to actually develop any of the characters aside from the protagonists and maybe one or two others. Even the siblings of the main characters don't have a lot of development - I know virtually nothing about Pouncestep, Lightleap, and Thriftear. Flipclaw only got some development because of his weird stint as a medicine cat. And the little development Needleclaw has gotten made her pretty unlikeable if I'm being honest. I just... Man, rather than splitting the POV between different Clans in a single book/series, keep the POV in a single Clan at least per book (i.e., ThunderClan for the first book, SkyClan for the second, ShadowClan for the third... etc.). But regardless, we need a purge. Get rid of the older characters (as much as I love Graystripe, Cloudtail, Brackenfur, and Brightheart... they serve no purpose anymore) and some of the lesser known younger characters to allow the ones that remain to have some real development. Either that, or get rid of some of the more modern characters who have been developed to force development of the rest of the characters.
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Post by Rainsplash on Mar 13, 2021 20:09:12 GMT -5
Oh, yes, I remember and can tell somebody about the first or two background characters, even maybe third or fourth, and DotC, but latter? Especially the seventh? Who are those people? Honestly, I feel like I'm not involved with Warriors anymore because I don't remember their names at all, I don't feel any attachment, I wouldn't shed a tear if they died. Every Clan now has fifty members to total, and more than half I don't know them.
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Post by π―ππππ¦π±π£π―π¬π°π± on Mar 13, 2021 20:26:48 GMT -5
Oh, yes, I remember and can tell somebody about the first or two background characters, even maybe third or fourth, and DotC, but latter? Especially the seventh? Who are those people? Honestly, I feel like I'm not involved with Warriors anymore because I don't remember their names at all, I don't feel any attachment, I wouldn't shed a tear if they died. Every Clan now has fifty members to total, and more than half I don't know them. That's how I feel. In the first several arcs, I at least new the vast majority of background characters, at the very least in the POV Clan (though, admittedly, I knew quite a few background characters in other Clans too!). I want to know these characters, I really do. I want to be attached to them. But I honestly completely forgot about the deaths in the big battle in TBC because the vast majority of the characters are cat I neither know nor care about.
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Post by tallshadowstar on Mar 14, 2021 0:27:50 GMT -5
What really bugs me is that each Clan is supposed to be very tight-knit, and yet our protagonists tend to only interact with a very small circle of close kin and friends. Not only does this leave background characters horrifically underdeveloped, it diminishes the entire concept of having Clans to begin with.
Of the TBC trio, Rootspring is the only POV who really feels like he knows every clanmate around him. Off the top of my head, I know that he has close kin, recognizes a queen and her kit who Tree frightened, has to deal with older apprentices bullying him, tries to listen in on medicine cat gossip; you name it. The little background details like this really add up. SkyClan feels unified, like how ThunderClan used to feel from TPB-OOTS. It feels like a family - everyone may not get along perfectly, but you genuinely believe that they'd do anything to protect their clanmates.
Conversely, Bristlefrost's circle within ThunderClan consists of Stemleaf, Rosepetal, Spotfur, the Rebels, her kin, and her Clan leader. If you asked me to name an intra-Clan friend that she has outside of the cats I just mentioned, I'd draw a blank. The focus is far too narrow; ThunderClan is filled with cats who she grew up around, yet they're almost complete strangers to her. Shadowsight is a bit better, but he still doesn't really have friends that are within ShadowClan.
This also cheapens character motivations - for example, why does Shadowsight care that his Clan distrusts him, when he had never spoken to half of his Clanmates to begin with? It would be so much more emotional to read if Shadowsight did get to know the cats around him, and then witnessed them turn on him. We can infer that he has this relationship, but we don't actually see it.
Background characters don't have to have full arcs, but they need to have some interaction with our POVs. Otherwise, it feels like the Clan is just a hodgepodge of a bunch of cats who just stick around each other because it's convenient. ThunderClan feels like NYC, when it used to feel like a tiny rural town; we don't know our protagonists' neighbours.
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