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Post by plaggy on Mar 10, 2021 19:33:19 GMT -5
Why sometimes people ask if these two were punished enough?
I get they broke the code but we know they never intend to hurt anybody nor they are malicious. What more punishment they could get? They worked hard to earn their children and clan trust back. Even today we know Jayfeather has forgiven them but like not entirely.
But why the question. We know Firestar would have never exile them or force them to retire. So revoking Squirrelflight warrior status was never an option.
People said the Leafpool losing her medecine cat status was her punishment and it should have stay like that. But lets be honest Leafpool was needed most as a medecine cat. In fact after the DF battle they could have make her go back to be a warrior. Cats like Bramblestar, Jayfeather, the others meds and even Starclan. But that did not happen because even all of them knew she was needed more in that area.
But why still debating if they got enough punishment. Honestly that kind of question is more suitable for a cat who broke the code and is evil for real.
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Post by cable on Mar 10, 2021 20:11:18 GMT -5
making a cat who never trained to battle into a warrior just weakens the clan. leafpool is a skilled medicine cat and making her retire permanently would only serve to cause harm to the clan. they couldve just set a guard so she wouldnt be allowed to go places unaccompanied, or banned her from medicine cat gatherings, or something like that. leafpool being made into a warrior only reduced the amount of paws in the medicine den and would get her killed in the long run.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 10, 2021 20:53:06 GMT -5
In my AU, I have her punished and deranked. It's a bit baffling to think that Leafpool doesn't know how to hunt or even defend herself when Medicine cats are supposed to at least know the basics.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 10, 2021 21:00:09 GMT -5
making a cat who never trained to battle into a warrior just weakens the clan. leafpool is a skilled medicine cat and making her retire permanently would only serve to cause harm to the clan. they couldve just set a guard so she wouldnt be allowed to go places unaccompanied, or banned her from medicine cat gatherings, or something like that. leafpool being made into a warrior only reduced the amount of paws in the medicine den and would get her killed in the long run. i dont think there needed to be a guard for leafpool...it had been moons since she ran off with crowfeather and had those kits, and since then, she's been nothing but loyal and a dedicated medicine cat. there's no need for her to be guarded. as much as i like how leafpool punished herself as to not burden others, her punishment is actually bad like you say. she could have had squirrelflight mentor her on how to hunt at the very least. she didnt need to fight to be a warrior for a time as punishment...she could have just hunted, and it was still up to jayfeather anyways when or if he needed/wanted her back anyways.
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Post by cable on Mar 10, 2021 21:06:04 GMT -5
making a cat who never trained to battle into a warrior just weakens the clan. leafpool is a skilled medicine cat and making her retire permanently would only serve to cause harm to the clan. they couldve just set a guard so she wouldnt be allowed to go places unaccompanied, or banned her from medicine cat gatherings, or something like that. leafpool being made into a warrior only reduced the amount of paws in the medicine den and would get her killed in the long run. i dont think there needed to be a guard for leafpool...it had been moons since she ran off with crowfeather and had those kits, and since then, she's been nothing but loyal and a dedicated medicine cat. there's no need for her to be guarded. as much as i like how leafpool punished herself as to not burden others, her punishment is actually bad like you say. she could have had squirrelflight mentor her on how to hunt at the very least. she didnt need to fight to be a warrior for a time as punishment...she could have just hunted, and it was still up to jayfeather anyways when or if he needed/wanted her back anyways. i dont doubt leafpools loyalty by that point but im talking from the perspective of others. if firestar wanted to give the image that he was properly punishing her, those would be more logical ideas than her patrolling borders when she barely knows how to fight.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 10, 2021 22:26:49 GMT -5
i dont think there needed to be a guard for leafpool...it had been moons since she ran off with crowfeather and had those kits, and since then, she's been nothing but loyal and a dedicated medicine cat. there's no need for her to be guarded. as much as i like how leafpool punished herself as to not burden others, her punishment is actually bad like you say. she could have had squirrelflight mentor her on how to hunt at the very least. she didnt need to fight to be a warrior for a time as punishment...she could have just hunted, and it was still up to jayfeather anyways when or if he needed/wanted her back anyways. i dont doubt leafpools loyalty by that point but im talking from the perspective of others. if firestar wanted to give the image that he was properly punishing her, those would be more logical ideas than her patrolling borders when she barely knows how to fight. she doesnt need to fight. if she just learned how to hunt instead, that'd be more useful. and not all border patrols end with fights so i dont think that'd be a huge issue.
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Post by Rainsplash on Mar 11, 2021 1:18:29 GMT -5
No idea why some people keep saying that they should've been exiled or something when they're probably those people saying Mapleshade shouldn't have been exiled
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 11, 2021 8:33:35 GMT -5
Brightheart has knowledge of herbs, does that mean she should be a medicine cat? Hollyleaf trained enough to know some herbs as well. Should she have remained a medicine cat? In dire situations, Leafpool could still assist Jayfeather like any other warrior would be asked to. Which happened before several times. Leafpool knew she broke the code and stepping down was her punishment. You don't get to decide when your punishment ends. It doesn't weaken the Clan and having Jayfeather panic that one time is utterly stupid and makes him look useless. That was more of the Erins trying to make Leafpool look needed when she was fine where she was at.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Mar 11, 2021 10:25:45 GMT -5
Both were punished enough.
Punishments don't always need to be "exiled" or "being demoted."
On Squirrelflight's part, i belive that Bramblestar and her kits starting to resent her is enough punishment for lying to them, but because she didin't break the code, i don't belive she should be exiled or whatever.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Mar 11, 2021 15:32:54 GMT -5
In my opinion she should have stayed a warrior and done medical assisting as necessary like Cinderheart and Brightheart do. She shouldn't have been allowed to train new medicine cats or speak to StarClan anymore, but she could certainly still use her knowledge where necessary. The warrior code doesn't prevent warriors from using herbs.
I don't think Squirrelflight should get an official punishment. Lying isn't against the warrior code, it's just a shitty thing to do, so her consequences should be limited to her personal life. Leafpool actually did break a law, so at the very least she should have her official title taken away, even if she continues to heal.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Mar 11, 2021 17:16:02 GMT -5
This has been over and done with for almost a decade now (TLH came out in 2012).
Leafpool has regretted what she did every since it happened and Squirrelflight didn't lie out of malice.
If there is any cat that still has not received true punishment it's Sleekwhisker.
I sincerely hope that if she does come back there'll be hell to pay for her.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Mar 11, 2021 18:13:20 GMT -5
Reading the replies, I agree that Leafpool should have been deranked. All medicine cats should know some basic rules of hunting and fighting, and Leafpool could just get extra training to expand upon them. And like Skypaw said above, she still could assist Jayfeather- there's no rule preventing her from doing so. Leafpool just can't do official medicine cat stuff.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 12, 2021 20:14:08 GMT -5
I disagree that Leafpool needed to be deranked. She went on to train more medicine cats in other clans and is constantly useful in places where Jayfeather's personality makes him less so. I think Leafpool not being able to be with her loved ones, raise her kits, and then be practically spit on by her clan and kits was plenty punishment.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 13, 2021 10:33:01 GMT -5
A lot of people are mentioning that the consequences for Leafpool's actions are punishment for her. I disagree. Leafpool did break the law. Two of them. Facing her consequences shouldn't be her punishment. She deserved being deranked.
Now, before someone tries to argue, Squirrelflight didn't really break any laws. Yes, she lied. However the code never mentions to oust anyone breaking the code. If she never did take the kits, then it can be argued that she did. Squirrelflight suffered from the consequences of her lying, but she was somewhat coerced into it by StarClan.
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