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Post by Rainsplash on Mar 6, 2021 19:26:01 GMT -5
Ashpaw was a sweet little apprentice who wanted to revenge his mother with his cute little sister, Fernpaw. Ashfur was kind of sweet with Squirrelflight, and his heart 'twisted' when Squirrelflight rejected him. I'm sure he thought BrambleSquirrel was over and AshSquirrel was a thing.
But now, in TBC, he's another bad guy, big scale. To probably justify his 'madness' and 'evilness', the Erins started putting in random hints.
In GV, Ashfur keeps getting in Graystripe's fur and tries to promote Dustpelt to deputy. Very OOC. While Brambleclaw encourages Graystripe, and reassures him he's doing a good job.
Wow.
I'm guessing in Leopardstar's Honor, he's going to challenge Leopardstar or something so he looks bad, and Brambleclaw to shush and be all saintly and kind to look like he's much much better than Ashfur.
While Ashfur definitely is the bad guy now, I'm really cross about this BrambleAsh bias. I mean, this is just so obvious. Ashfur wasn't trash until PoT or something. I'm sure he was just sulking in Sunset, like many people do. (Not justifying attempted murder, just saying he was fine in Sunset, or so I thought)
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Mar 6, 2021 19:31:20 GMT -5
Ashpaw was a sweet little apprentice who wanted to revenge his mother with his cute little sister, Fernpaw. Ashfur was kind of sweet with Squirrelflight, and his heart 'twisted' when Squirrelflight rejected him. I'm sure he thought BrambleSquirrel was over and AshSquirrel was a thing. But now, in TBC, he's another bad guy, big scale. To probably justify his 'madness' and 'evilness', the Erins started putting in random hints. In GV, Ashfur keeps getting in Graystripe's fur and tries to promote Dustpelt to deputy. Very OOC. While Brambleclaw encourages Graystripe, and reassures him he's doing a good job. Wow. I'm guessing in Leopardstar's Honor, he's going to challenge Leopardstar or something so he looks bad, and Brambleclaw to shush and be all saintly and kind to look like he's much much better than Ashfur. While Ashfur definitely is the bad guy now, I'm really cross about this BrambleAsh bias. I mean, this is just so obvious. Ashfur wasn't trash until PoT or something. I'm sure he was just sulking in Sunset, like many people do. (Not justifying attempted murder, just saying he was fine in Sunset, or so I thought) Yes! You said some of my thoughts.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Mar 6, 2021 19:34:07 GMT -5
He actually wasn't fine in Sunset. Attempted murder aside (which should really tell you something by this alone, I don't see why you would think he was fine even after pointing this out), he was bitter all throughout. He wasn't just sulking, but being openly hostile towards Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight.
As for his portrayal in GV, keep in mind that Dustpelt was his mentor and had recently become his sister's mate at his time while Graystripe hadn't been in ThunderClan for very long before he became deputy. And then Firestar and Sandstorm leave without telling anyone but Graystripe and Cinderpelt the exact reason why, and it makes sense why he'd disapprove of his acting leader.
Another thing, Ashfur helped avenge both his mother and father, and while he clearly wasn't the only cat involved in these acts, it's reasonable to think he might've developed a bit of arrogance during the time between the end of the first arc and the beginning of the second.
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Post by cable on Mar 6, 2021 19:40:12 GMT -5
imma be real i never read much personality into ashfur (besides him being xenophobic to kittypets in the darkest hour, including saying bloodclan would be weak because theyre kittypets right in front of his ex-kittypet leader) and from what i recall when i was active in the fandom back then, people didnt care much about ashfurs personality until he was used as an antagonist, at which point people extrapolated a lot of stuff that just... wasnt there. bramble definitely had more personality back then too, and his behavior in gv falls in line with his tpb characterization, wanting to help where he can and encouraging those around him to do their best, as well, even if he felt unsure of himself. ashpaw wanting to avenge his mother doesnt equal a developed character or even a nice character (see: every villain or anti-hero whos motivation is getting revenge for a family member). ashfur as a developed character did not exist until tnp. and tnp is when he was portrayed as insecure, overly-protective, and easily jealous.
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Post by cable on Mar 6, 2021 19:43:17 GMT -5
I'm guessing in Leopardstar's Honor, he's going to challenge Leopardstar or something so he looks bad, and Brambleclaw to shush and be all saintly and kind to look like he's much much better than Ashfur. quite frankly ashfur challenging the leader who ordered her deputy to murder apprentices because she didnt want to wound her pride by admitting she was wrong would make me like him more. you say โchallenging leopardstarโ as if thats a bad thing.
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Post by Rainsplash on Mar 6, 2021 20:18:41 GMT -5
I'm guessing in Leopardstar's Honor, he's going to challenge Leopardstar or something so he looks bad, and Brambleclaw to shush and be all saintly and kind to look like he's much much better than Ashfur. quite frankly ashfur challenging the leader who ordered her deputy to murder apprentices because she didnt want to wound her pride by admitting she was wrong would make me like him more. you say โchallenging leopardstarโ as if thats a bad thing. Well, I meant something like Ashfur rudely interrupting Leopardstar in middle of her announcement at a Gathering, saying she had no right to be leader. Interrupting in Gatherings, while Brambleclaw quietly chides him, something like that.
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Post by cable on Mar 6, 2021 20:20:38 GMT -5
quite frankly ashfur challenging the leader who ordered her deputy to murder apprentices because she didnt want to wound her pride by admitting she was wrong would make me like him more. you say โchallenging leopardstarโ as if thats a bad thing. Well, I meant something like Ashfur rudely interrupting Leopardstar in middle of her announcement at a Gathering, saying she had no right to be leader. Interrupting in Gatherings, while Brambleclaw quietly chides him, something like that. if he did exactly that i would be the first person bolting to the forums and declaring that ashfur was right and he should say it.
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Post by Rainsplash on Mar 6, 2021 20:22:28 GMT -5
He actually wasn't fine in Sunset. Attempted murder aside (which should really tell you something by this alone, I don't see why you would think he was fine even after pointing this out), he was bitter all throughout. He wasn't just sulking, but being openly hostile towards Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight. As for his portrayal in GV, keep in mind that Dustpelt was his mentor and had recently become his sister's mate at his time while Graystripe hadn't been in ThunderClan for very long before he became deputy. And then Firestar and Sandstorm leave without telling anyone but Graystripe and Cinderpelt the exact reason why, and it makes sense why he'd disapprove of his acting leader. Another thing, Ashfur helped avenge both his mother and father, and while he clearly wasn't the only cat involved in these acts, it's reasonable to think he might've developed a bit of arrogance during the time between the end of the first arc and the beginning of the second. Oh, well, he wasn't? Sunset's the book in where Squirrelflight chooses Brambleclaw and says 'No' to Ashfur, right? Not the PoT Sunrise? Anyway, maybe his portrayal in GV might be understood, but he's contrast to Brambleclaw, who defends and encourages and also backs up Graystripe. Ashfur's stirring up trouble, and Brambleclaw's doing the "good thing". I'm saying that this portrayal paints Brambleclaw in obvious positive light and Ashfur in negative.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 6, 2021 20:25:22 GMT -5
Ashpaw existed in TPB and early TNP, but he had no personality. He suffers from Swiftpaw Syndrome where he actually has astoundingly little dialogue and characterization, yet the gaps get filled in by pure fanon. That's why I find it hard to believe he's OOC in GV, as he didn't have any character in the books where GV was set.
Him wanting revenge for his mother isn't really a sign of any characterization besides him having a positive relationship with her(and even then, not necessarily, see Tallstar).
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
แนขanษypawโข
The Shiny User
๐ตGuess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go๐ต
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Post by แนขanษypawโข on Mar 6, 2021 20:36:19 GMT -5
I think I said something about this in another thread. I personally don't think Ashfur is acting very OOC since he never really had a personality, to begin with, and even personalities can change over time. The only time he really came into prominence was when the BrambleAshSquirrel drama started, and where everything about him pretty much comes from. Sometimes it does feel like that the Erins are trying to force personality into past Ashfur, but then again, we don't really know what past Ashfur was like.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Mar 6, 2021 20:49:16 GMT -5
He actually wasn't fine in Sunset. Attempted murder aside (which should really tell you something by this alone, I don't see why you would think he was fine even after pointing this out), he was bitter all throughout. He wasn't just sulking, but being openly hostile towards Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight. As for his portrayal in GV, keep in mind that Dustpelt was his mentor and had recently become his sister's mate at his time while Graystripe hadn't been in ThunderClan for very long before he became deputy. And then Firestar and Sandstorm leave without telling anyone but Graystripe and Cinderpelt the exact reason why, and it makes sense why he'd disapprove of his acting leader. Another thing, Ashfur helped avenge both his mother and father, and while he clearly wasn't the only cat involved in these acts, it's reasonable to think he might've developed a bit of arrogance during the time between the end of the first arc and the beginning of the second. Oh, well, he wasn't? Sunset's the book in where Squirrelflight chooses Brambleclaw and says 'No' to Ashfur, right? Not the PoT Sunrise? Anyway, maybe his portrayal in GV might be understood, but he's contrast to Brambleclaw, who defends and encourages and also backs up Graystripe. Ashfur's stirring up trouble, and Brambleclaw's doing the "good thing". I'm saying that this portrayal paints Brambleclaw in obvious positive light and Ashfur in negative. Of course it's not Sunrise. Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw have been mates for moons and Ashfur was already dead by then (he died at the end of the previous book, Long Shadows). And yes, that's the book, but it's obvious he didn't accept it. As soon as Squirrelflight rejects him, one of the first things he does is bring up Brambleclaw's relation to Tigerstar as well as his own mother's death as a reason for why she shouldn't be with him. Throughout the book, he glares or acts passive-aggressive with Brambleclaw, ignores Squirrelflight, and accuses Leafpool of lying when Brambleclaw is made deputy even after it's revealed that StarClan was involved in the decision. Also, it's Brambleclaw. Even if Ashfur was painted in a negative light in contrast (as was everyone else), it'd be odd if the former didn't support Graystripe no matter how you look at it, especially since Firestar had been his mentor and he trusts Firestar, who was Graystripe's best friend. Look at it this way: Ashpaw starts out as a fairly average apprentice and appears to be close to his family (covering for Cloudpaw, avenging his parents, etc...). Like plenty of other Clan cats however, he also has a thing against kittypets (ex: his initial reaction towards seeing BloodClan). Sometime after the battle with BloodClan, he and his sister become warriors and it's noted in FQ that it's been five moons since then. Brambleclaw becomes a warrior at the beginning of the book, and the two cats appear to be friendly with each other (enough for Ashfur to help him find a place to sleep for him to sleep, anyway), and then Firestar and Sandstorm leave not long after, without telling anyone why. We don't know what went on in those five moons, but we can speculate. Apprentices take after their mentors all the time and Ashfur has been shown to be very loyal to those he cares about. We see in GV that this extends to his former mentor and his sister's new mate, Dustpelt, at least enough to support him as deputy. Dustpelt, who'd been nothing but loyal to his Clan his whole life. Compare him to Graystripe, who'd only been in ThunderClan for only about two seasons at most after being exiled from RiverClan, which he only moved to in the first place to be with his half-Clan kits after his RiverClan mate died. And it's not often an apprentice outruns a dog or fights a rogue, especially if it's to avenge their parents. Like I said, it's not unreasonable to assume he might've developed a bit of an ego during that five moon timeskip, and perhaps even resentment towards Graystripe as well. Between FQ/GV and TNP, several moons pass, and Ashfur has mostly mellowed down by then, but is still pretty prejudiced against kittypets. Squirrelflight ends up taking issue with this at some point in Twilight when he makes a comment against Daisy's kits. But for the most part, things seem good between them. That is, until, Squirrelflight rejects him and the rest is history.
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Post by แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ on Mar 6, 2021 22:33:47 GMT -5
ashfur literally only gained a more stand out personality when he was chosen AT RANDOM to be part of squirrelflight's love drama...he was an ordinary brave warrior before squirrelpaw returned from the journey. once she returned, he was all up in her business acting like he missed her ooooh so much...gross.
they could have turned any other tom into what ashfur would become. of course ashfur was never gonna be like this in the old days...so yes i agree that GV made ashfur a bit OOC. he wasnt like that before squirrelflight and they're only doing this to justify all this (adding stuff in the past to justify what's being done in the present is lazy)
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 6, 2021 23:00:48 GMT -5
ashfur literally only gained a more stand out personality when he was chosen AT RANDOM to be part of squirrelflight's love drama...he was an ordinary brave warrior before squirrelpaw returned from the journey. once she returned, he was all up in her business acting like he missed her ooooh so much...gross. they could have turned any other tom into what ashfur would become. of course ashfur was never gonna be like this in the old days...so yes i agree that GV made ashfur a bit OOC. he wasnt like that before squirrelflight and they're only doing this to justify all this (adding stuff in the past to justify what's being done in the present is lazy) This doesn't make a lot of sense. So if a character doesn't have screentime, that automatically means that they're some ordinary, brave warrior? Screentime is how characters get characterization, so what's the problem with Asfur getting some? This isn't overrwriting personality, it's just giving him one after he had none.
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Post by cable on Mar 6, 2021 23:11:09 GMT -5
ashfur literally only gained a more stand out personality when he was chosen AT RANDOM to be part of squirrelflight's love drama...he was an ordinary brave warrior before squirrelpaw returned from the journey. once she returned, he was all up in her business acting like he missed her ooooh so much...gross. they could have turned any other tom into what ashfur would become. of course ashfur was never gonna be like this in the old days...so yes i agree that GV made ashfur a bit OOC. he wasnt like that before squirrelflight and they're only doing this to justify all this (adding stuff in the past to justify what's being done in the present is lazy) This doesn't make a lot of sense. So if a character doesn't have screentime, that automatically means that they're some ordinary, brave warrior? Screentime is how characters get characterization, so what's the problem with Asfur getting some? This isn't overrwriting personality, it's just giving him one after he had none. if ashfur didnt get screentime you cant even assign the ordinay label to him because we have no idea what hes thinking about tbh. that goes for every character currently existing too. ashfur could easily have always been how he was characterized in graystripes vow and just acted nice around squirrelflight. we cant know, because he wasnt a character until tnp.
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Post by แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ on Mar 7, 2021 0:49:58 GMT -5
ashfur literally only gained a more stand out personality when he was chosen AT RANDOM to be part of squirrelflight's love drama...he was an ordinary brave warrior before squirrelpaw returned from the journey. once she returned, he was all up in her business acting like he missed her ooooh so much...gross. they could have turned any other tom into what ashfur would become. of course ashfur was never gonna be like this in the old days...so yes i agree that GV made ashfur a bit OOC. he wasnt like that before squirrelflight and they're only doing this to justify all this (adding stuff in the past to justify what's being done in the present is lazy) This doesn't make a lot of sense. So if a character doesn't have screentime, that automatically means that they're some ordinary, brave warrior? Screentime is how characters get characterization, so what's the problem with Asfur getting some? This isn't overrwriting personality, it's just giving him one after he had none. it is overwriting personality. he was a good apprentice and did brave things, and was nice in TNP before squirrelpaw returned. what we DO see is what matters to me. rainwhisker as an example can be the same way. he is shown being happy for sorreltail at her warrior ceremony, he shows concern about graystripe being captured and is eager to name someone new as deputy right away, he is helpful when they move to the lake, he is upset about sootfurs death and is worried about how to tell sorreltail about it since she just gave birth. from these glimpses, he is obviously an ordinary brave warrior who cares deeply for his kin and clan (wanting a new deputy right after graystripe's capture shows he cares for his clan's wellbeing since they need a deputy to carry out duties; helping many cats at the lake shows he cares about everyone around him; he is gentle with sorreltail bringing the news of sootfur). if they suddenly made rainwhisker uncaring of cats around him, bitter, angry and lashing out at everyone in public, it would be out of character for him from what little we DID see him do. same can be said for ashfur since he also had glimpses before being thrust into the love triangle subplot in TNP. in a flashback, they write ashfur more OBVIOUSLY bad even when he wasnt like that until squirrelflight got invovled.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 7, 2021 8:47:14 GMT -5
This doesn't make a lot of sense. So if a character doesn't have screentime, that automatically means that they're some ordinary, brave warrior? Screentime is how characters get characterization, so what's the problem with Asfur getting some? This isn't overrwriting personality, it's just giving him one after he had none. it is overwriting personality. he was a good apprentice and did brave things, and was nice in TNP before squirrelpaw returned. what we DO see is what matters to me. rainwhisker as an example can be the same way. he is shown being happy for sorreltail at her warrior ceremony, he shows concern about graystripe being captured and is eager to name someone new as deputy right away, he is helpful when they move to the lake, he is upset about sootfurs death and is worried about how to tell sorreltail about it since she just gave birth. from these glimpses, he is obviously an ordinary brave warrior who cares deeply for his kin and clan (wanting a new deputy right after graystripe's capture shows he cares for his clan's wellbeing since they need a deputy to carry out duties; helping many cats at the lake shows he cares about everyone around him; he is gentle with sorreltail bringing the news of sootfur). if they suddenly made rainwhisker uncaring of cats around him, bitter, angry and lashing out at everyone in public, it would be out of character for him from what little we DID see him do. same can be said for ashfur since he also had glimpses before being thrust into the love triangle subplot in TNP. in a flashback, they write ashfur more OBVIOUSLY bad even when he wasnt like that until squirrelflight got invovled. Being an obedient apprentice would actually make him MORE likely to defy Graystripe in Graystripe's Vow. After all, if he's loyal to his mentor to a fault, why wouldn't he want to help him along and become deputy? And as for him being brave, well, he's still quite brave. It's just that that bravery and determination is being channeled towards cruel things. This is hardly very unusual in fiction or real life, heck, even in Warriors. Scourge was a brave fighter who saw a cat come back to life in front of him by magic and refused to back down for even a second, yet in the end his moral actions were wrong. Tigerstar is multiple times called a brave warrior yet we all know the kind of person he turned out to be. Bravery does not equate to morality. Ashfur's glimpses don't make what he does later seem out of character. All we get from him is that at one point he trusted Cloudtail in TPB but then no longer trusts him by TNP when he thinks he went back to the Twolegs willingly, that he looks down on kittypets, that he likes and respects Dustpelt, and that he was brave. None of these preclude what he does, and in fact I think that the first one is key. It demonstrates that while Ashfur is certainly loyal to someone someone so long as they are on his good side, one mistake and he will immediately never trust them again. Might this be extrapolating too much? Maybe, but it's all we have to work with from the people claiming he's OOC when the truth is that his character was very ill defined prior to later TNP.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
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สแดษชษดสแดแดา ๐
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by สแดษชษดสแดแดา ๐ on Mar 7, 2021 9:05:03 GMT -5
it is overwriting personality. he was a good apprentice and did brave things, and was nice in TNP before squirrelpaw returned. what we DO see is what matters to me. rainwhisker as an example can be the same way. he is shown being happy for sorreltail at her warrior ceremony, he shows concern about graystripe being captured and is eager to name someone new as deputy right away, he is helpful when they move to the lake, he is upset about sootfurs death and is worried about how to tell sorreltail about it since she just gave birth. from these glimpses, he is obviously an ordinary brave warrior who cares deeply for his kin and clan (wanting a new deputy right after graystripe's capture shows he cares for his clan's wellbeing since they need a deputy to carry out duties; helping many cats at the lake shows he cares about everyone around him; he is gentle with sorreltail bringing the news of sootfur).ย if they suddenly made rainwhisker uncaring of cats around him,ย bitter, angry and lashing out at everyone in public, it would be out of character for him from what little we DID see him do. same can be said for ashfur since he also had glimpses before being thrust into the love triangle subplot in TNP. in a flashback, they write ashfur more OBVIOUSLY bad even when he wasnt like that until squirrelflight got invovled.ย Being an obedient apprentice would actually make him MORE likely to defy Graystripe in Graystripe's Vow. After all, if he's loyal to his mentor to a fault, why wouldn't he want to help him along and become deputy? And as for him being brave, well, he's still quite brave. It's just that that bravery and determination is being channeled towards cruel things. This is hardly very unusual in fiction or real life, heck, even in Warriors. Scourge was a brave fighter who saw a cat come back to life in front of him by magic and refused to back down for even a second, yet in the end his moral actions were wrong. Tigerstar is multiple times called a brave warrior yet we all know the kind of person he turned out to be. Bravery does not equate to morality. Ashfur's glimpses don't make what he does later seem out of character. All we get from him is that at one point he trusted Cloudtail in TPB but then no longer trusts him by TNP when he thinks he went back to the Twolegs willingly, that he looks down on kittypets, that he likes and respects Dustpelt, and that he was brave. None of these preclude what he does, and in fact I think that the first one is key. It demonstrates that while Ashfur is certainly loyal to someone someone so long as they are on his good side, one mistake and he will immediately never trust them again. Might this be extrapolating too much? Maybe, but it's all we have to work with from the people claiming he's OOC when the truth is that his character was very ill defined prior to later TNP.ย The last part of your post is a really good point. I feel like Ashfur's characterization in GV is just a slightly more extreme version of Dustpelt, Thornclaw, and Mousefur.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 11:02:55 GMT -5
it is overwriting personality. he was a good apprentice and did brave things, and was nice in TNP before squirrelpaw returned. what we DO see is what matters to me. rainwhisker as an example can be the same way. he is shown being happy for sorreltail at her warrior ceremony, he shows concern about graystripe being captured and is eager to name someone new as deputy right away, he is helpful when they move to the lake, he is upset about sootfurs death and is worried about how to tell sorreltail about it since she just gave birth. from these glimpses, he is obviously an ordinary brave warrior who cares deeply for his kin and clan (wanting a new deputy right after graystripe's capture shows he cares for his clan's wellbeing since they need a deputy to carry out duties; helping many cats at the lake shows he cares about everyone around him; he is gentle with sorreltail bringing the news of sootfur). if they suddenly made rainwhisker uncaring of cats around him, bitter, angry and lashing out at everyone in public, it would be out of character for him from what little we DID see him do. same can be said for ashfur since he also had glimpses before being thrust into the love triangle subplot in TNP. in a flashback, they write ashfur more OBVIOUSLY bad even when he wasnt like that until squirrelflight got invovled. So background cats like Brackenfur, Thornclaw, Cloudtail and Brightheart have overpersonality and as a result are badly written now. Ok lol. there really isnโt anything wrong with Ashfur being randomly chosen for this from all the background characters. Like why not him, nothing wrong with him after all. She never even mentioned them though? Besides that argument is kind of nonsensical since Brackenfur, Cloudtail, and Brightheart at least were shown to have a of a lot more personality and focus than Ashfur before TBC. Hell they still had about the same amount when Ashfur and Squirrelflight were hanging out in TNP. I have read her post multiple times and I still can't fathom why you'd bring them up since she didn't mention them. And you know what's wrong with ASHFUR being chosen? He's an adult WARRIOR lusting after an apprentice. Same with Brambleclaw and Stormfur it's disgusting. All of Squirrelflight's love interests are disgusting because she is still an APPRENTICE when they all get feelings for her. I don't care if people see apprentices as adults. I don't. They should have picked someone in Squirrelflight's own age range and at least made her a warrior before having all these ADULT toms want her.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Mar 7, 2021 11:08:35 GMT -5
I'm not mad at Brambleclaw at all (most of you probably know by now that I adore him).
I feel like he has always been very supportive of Firestar and his values due to being mentored by him.
When it comes to Ashfur, my thread about asking if he was OOC in Graystripe's Vow has been sufficiently answered and upon getting done re-reading the first arc yesterday I have to agree that he was rather in character during Graystripe's SE and that his previously established tendencies merely got expanded on further during that book.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2021 11:27:20 GMT -5
She never even mentioned them though? Besides that argument is kind of nonsensical since Brackenfur, Cloudtail, and Brightheart at least were shown to have a of a lot more personality and focus than Ashfur before TBC. Hell they still had about the same amount when Ashfur and Squirrelflight were hanging out in TNP. I have read her post multiple times and I still can't fathom why you'd bring them up since she didn't mention them. And you know what's wrong with ASHFUR being chosen? He's an adult WARRIOR lusting after an apprentice. Same with Brambleclaw and Stormfur it's disgusting. All of Squirrelflight's love interests are disgusting because she is still an APPRENTICE when they all get feelings for her. I don't care if people see apprentices as adults. I don't. They should have picked someone in Squirrelflight's own age range and at least made her a warrior before having all these ADULT toms want her. By that logic DustxFern is disgusting too Never said it wasn't. Perhaps you should just stop putting words into other people's posts and assuming stuff before attempting to sound intelligent wherein reality you just sound rudely condescending? Not talking about the response to my post by the way.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Mar 7, 2021 11:28:45 GMT -5
@chengfen I mean Dustpelt is actually the uncle of Ferncloud so there is that to consider as well. I'm also under the impression that แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ is more frustrated with the fact that Ashfur was just randomly chosen by the authors to be part of that love triangle instead of receiving some proper character development and relationship bonding before it happened.
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 7, 2021 12:06:36 GMT -5
I'm also under the impression that แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ is more frustrated with the fact that Ashfur was just randomly chosen by the authors to be part of that love triangle instead of receiving some proper character development and relationship bonding before it happened. That's the part where it confuses me. If it were any other cat, they would have gotten the same treatment as Ashfur did. There weren't exactly a lot of cats who had an established personality and were single. If the argument is that whoever was meant to become part of the love triangle didn't receive any characterization before that, then maybe I can understand, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of these background cats had little to no semblance of personality to begin with. Going off what we see prior to his involvement in the love triangle, Ashfur is just an ordinary warrior who's loyal to his kin and Clan. While it's something, these are just traits that practically every non-essential cat has and doesn't give us much in the way of characterization beyond him being your generic warrior. You could argue that Ashfur had his xenophobia, but again a good chunk of Clan cats thought this way too, so it's nothing special. It honestly just seems to me that it isn't overwriting personality, rather it's Ashfur's own character development into a villain. We only get to see what they were like (in this case, Ashfur) after they become more relevant to the plot, which again in Ashfur's case, he was relevant to the love triangle. Then they built off what they had in TNP into PoT, and then later into TBC and GV.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Mar 7, 2021 12:14:33 GMT -5
I'm also under the impression that แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ is more frustrated with the fact that Ashfur was just randomly chosen by the authors to be part of that love triangle instead of receiving some proper character development and relationship bonding before it happened. That's the part where it confuses me. If it were any other cat, they would have gotten the same treatment as Ashfur did. There weren't exactly a lot of cats who had an established personality and were single. If the argument is that whoever was meant to become part of the love triangle didn't receive any characterization before that, then maybe I can understand, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of these background cats had little to no semblance of personality to begin with. Going off what we see prior to his involvement in the love triangle, Ashfur is just an ordinary warrior who's loyal to his kin and Clan. While it's something, these are just traits that practically every non-essential cat has and doesn't give us much in the way of characterization beyond him being your generic warrior. You could argue that Ashfur had his xenophobia, but again a good chunk of Clan cats thought this way too, so it's nothing special. It honestly just seems to me that it isn't overwriting personality, rather it's Ashfur's own character development into a villain. We only get to see what they were like (in this case, Ashfur) after they become more relevant to the plot, which again in Ashfur's case, he was relevant to the love triangle. Then they built off what they had in TNP into PoT, and then later into TBC and GV. Totally agree. I feel like it's just the way that the editors and authors handle building the characters up, which is sometimes a bit jarring when someone who was a background cat suddenly becomes relevant and thus receives an upgrade as to fit better with how their story arc is supposed to go.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Mar 7, 2021 14:28:15 GMT -5
I'm also under the impression that แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ is more frustrated with the fact that Ashfur was just randomly chosen by the authors to be part of that love triangle instead of receiving some proper character development and relationship bonding before it happened. That's the part where it confuses me. If it were any other cat, they would have gotten the same treatment as Ashfur did. There weren't exactly a lot of cats who had an established personality and were single. If the argument is that whoever was meant to become part of the love triangle didn't receive any characterization before that, then maybe I can understand, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of these background cats had little to no semblance of personality to begin with.ย Going off what we see prior to his involvement in the love triangle, Ashfur is just an ordinary warrior who's loyal to his kin and Clan. While it's something, these are just traits that practically every non-essential cat has and doesn't give us much in the way of characterization beyond him being your generic warrior. You could argue that Ashfur had his xenophobia, but again a good chunk of Clan cats thought this way too, so it's nothing special. It honestly just seems to me that it isn't overwriting personality, rather it's Ashfur's own character development into a villain.ย ย We only get to see what they were like (in this case, Ashfur) after they become more relevant to the plot, which again in Ashfur's case, he was relevant to the love triangle. Then they built off what they had in TNP into PoT, and then later into TBC and GV.ย Adding onto this, whether this was initially taken into consideration or not, I'd say Ashfur being chosen makes the most sense, considering he had a bit of a personal connection with Brambleclaw already (Tigerclaw killing Brindleface), so that just made things more interesting.
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Post by cable on Mar 7, 2021 15:50:52 GMT -5
in the alternate timeline where rainwhisker was picked to be the third leg of the love triangle, we are arguing over whether or not ashfur should have been picked because brambleclaws father killed ashfurs mother, and besides, rainwhisker was always polite and sweet to his family.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Mar 7, 2021 16:58:58 GMT -5
in the alternate timeline where rainwhisker was picked to be the third leg of the love tringle, we are arguing over whether or not ashfur should have been picked because brambleclaws father killed ashfurs mother, and besides, rainwhisker was always polite and sweet to his family. My thoughts exactly. Just because someone is sweet to their family members, doesn't mean that they'll be the same to others. In this regard, Ashfur also does make the most sense because of his already established connection to Brambleclaw.
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Post by Mothdapple on Mar 7, 2021 17:13:47 GMT -5
Letโs not forget how Ashfur helped lure Firestar to the fox trap in Sunset. This was definitely foreshadowing to the Ashfur we would get later on in the books.
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