|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 26, 2021 22:22:58 GMT -5
i'm re-reading twilight and they say at least twice that leafpool didn't know what it meant to make the medicine cat vow and never have a mate and kits. if there were more instances of this being brought up in the book, let me know, but i only remember it being brought up twice.
leafpool laments about not knowing what it meant to give up something she never even knew...more reasons why the medicine cat laws are dumb and selfish lol
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on Feb 26, 2021 22:50:29 GMT -5
Oh, yes, I read that and thought: Here you go, Moth Flight. Ugh.
It's like making a decision to stay alone forever. Seriously, you can't decide major stuff like that when you're just a little kid.
And people force you to become the... solitary priest(ess). How unfair is that?
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 26, 2021 23:36:00 GMT -5
It's a good point
Apprentices are like...13/14 if you think about it and they're made to choose their entire life from a young age.
|
|
|
Post by Cheetahstar on Feb 26, 2021 23:42:03 GMT -5
so messed up when they are forced to become a medicine cat too like
????
|
|
|
Post by Snowfire on Feb 26, 2021 23:42:12 GMT -5
Didn't someone say that it was mentioned that Sandstorm pushed Leafpaw to become a medicine cat somewhere in AVOS? Because if this is true, then I just feel bad that she didn't make that choice by herself.
|
|
|
Post by Brindlefern on Feb 26, 2021 23:46:13 GMT -5
Didn't someone say that it was mentioned that Sandstorm pushed Leafpaw to become a medicine cat somewhere in AVOS? Because if this is true, then I just feel bad that she didn't make that choice by herself. Leafpool chose it on her own accord. Don't take stupid YT videos as fact. In the books nothing suggests this is real. =.=
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 23:46:33 GMT -5
I remember that, and it's pretty sad. At the very least, it'd be nice if apprentices were given a little more freedom before making a choice to commit. Remember when medicine cats learning basic moves was still a thing?
|
|
|
Post by Brindlefern on Feb 26, 2021 23:48:31 GMT -5
I remember that, and it's pretty sad. At the very least, it'd be nice if apprentices were given a little more freedom before making a choice to commit. Remember when medicine cats learning basic moves was still a thing? It is unfortunate. I think we only saw two instances of Med Cats doing some degree of battle training (Flametail in NW and I think Cinderpelt and Leafpool somewhere late TNP I thiiiiiink) before it was just forgotten about. It's a shame too, no wonder most healers in these books don't know how to defend themselves.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 23:49:09 GMT -5
Didn't someone say that it was mentioned that Sandstorm pushed Leafpaw to become a medicine cat somewhere in AVOS? Because if this is true, then I just feel bad that she didn't make that choice by herself. Leafpool chose it on her own accord. Don't take stupid YT videos as fact. In the books nothing suggests this is real. =.= Adding onto this, it's made extremely clear pretty early that Leafpool always wanted to be a medicine cat and it'd be extremely out of character and even nonsensical for Sandstorm to force her daughters into doing anything they didn't want to.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 23:57:02 GMT -5
I remember that, and it's pretty sad. At the very least, it'd be nice if apprentices were given a little more freedom before making a choice to commit. Remember when medicine cats learning basic moves was still a thing? It is unfortunate. I think we only saw two instances of Med Cats doing some degree of battle training (Flametail in NW and I think Cinderpelt and Leafpool somewhere late TNP I thiiiiiink) before it was just forgotten about. It's a shame too, no wonder most healers in these books don't know how to defend themselves. Cinderpelt and Leafpaw training was actually in Moonrise, and another instance of this occurring is when Hollypaw trains with Cinderpaw, and this helps cement her decision in becoming a warrior instead. But yeah, it was really annoying when Leafpool was suddenly useless at basic fighting and hunting after stepping down. I know she wouldn't have used these skills often, but really!
|
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Feb 27, 2021 2:44:05 GMT -5
I remember that, and it's pretty sad. At the very least, it'd be nice if apprentices were given a little more freedom before making a choice to commit. Remember when medicine cats learning basic moves was still a thing? It is unfortunate. I think we only saw two instances of Med Cats doing some degree of battle training (Flametail in NW and I think Cinderpelt and Leafpool somewhere late TNP I thiiiiiink) before it was just forgotten about. It's a shame too, no wonder most healers in these books don't know how to defend themselves. Can't remember anything outside of arcs 3/4, but Jayfeather also had proper battle training from Leafpool in Sunrise, he just absolutely sucked at it. Though the count remains at 2 when you consider that Flametail's "training" in NW isn't proper training, he's just helping out with his siblings.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 27, 2021 7:44:05 GMT -5
Female leaders are allowed to have kits, there'e nothing in the rules against it. It's just that in Bluestar's case, she was a newly made queen and had to take care of kits in the nursery and no where near readily available to become the next deputy. So most likely Thistleclaw would have been chosen instead, especially because of the rule to choose a new deputy before the next sun high(?)
Mudfur had kits before he made the decision to become a medicine cat. He did so because of the loss of his mate, and even then he wasn't the one to raise Leopardstar. He was a good father, but Leopardstar did have a foster mother in the nursery.
I do agree that cats shouldn't be forced to become medicine cats. It's like forcing someone to become a nun, it's pretty ridiculous. Which is why in situations of "forced destiny" like Alderheart, I would have preferred he ran off with a kittypet than stay a meddie. Or Jayfeather wanting to be a warrior over a medicine cat, etc. However, cats that knowingly and willingly want to be medicine cats, and also taking the oath to get their names, don't have an excuse and should abide by those rules. Medicine cat apprentices usually take longer to get their names compared to warrior apprentices, so I think that's plenty of time. However, they should be allowed to turn down offers of meddie training from the start. No cat should be forced into the position or not be fully aware of the rules.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Feb 27, 2021 8:50:54 GMT -5
Female leaders are allowed to have kits, there'e nothing in the rules against it. It's just that in Bluestar's case, she was a newly made queen and had to take care of kits in the nursery and no where near readily available to become the next deputy. So most likely Thistleclaw would have been chosen instead, especially because of the rule to choose a new deputy before the next sun high(?) Mudfur had kits before he made the decision to become a medicine cat. He did so because of the loss of his mate, and even then he wasn't the one to raise Leopardstar. He was a good father, but Leopardstar did have a foster mother in the nursery. I do agree that cats shouldn't be forced to become medicine cats. It's like forcing someone to become a nun, it's pretty ridiculous. Which is why in situations of "forced destiny" like Alderheart, I would have preferred he ran off with a kittypet than stay a meddie. Or Jayfeather wanting to be a warrior over a medicine cat, etc. However, cats that knowingly and willingly want to be medicine cats, and also taking the oath to get their names, don't have an excuse and should abide by those rules. Medicine cat apprentices usually take longer to get their names compared to warrior apprentices, so I think that's plenty of time. However, they should be allowed to turn down offers of meddie training from the start. No cat should be forced into the position or not be fully aware of the rules. Yeah, the Bluestar thing is a MASSIVE misconception in this fandom. It's not a rule, it's just that she thought it would hurt her chances politically by making her look unavailable.
|
|
|
Post by briarfrost on Feb 27, 2021 10:42:03 GMT -5
The medicine cat rule is something that partially makes me go "that's stupid" and partially makes me go "I get it". On the one hand, I can see it being like real-life religious vocations such as nuns and priests, where they remain celibate because they're "married" to God (StarClan in this case). But remaining celibate because 1) Moth Flight couldn't handle kits and her job at the same time and 2) some nonsense about "they might prioritize their family over the rest of the Clan" iirc? That's a mind-boggling dumb reason to have that rule. It focuses on what they can't have that anyone else can (a mate and family) instead of what they do have that no one else can (a unique relationship with StarClan). Add in how often cats are forced into the position (Yellowfang, Jayfeather, Alderheart) instead of choosing it, and no wonder there's so much resentment and rule-breaking.
In my mind, the job should be split into two different ones: one that handles healing (could be given alongside warrior training, a la Brightheart, so the Clan has more than one or two doctors who are always on-call) and can still have families, and one that is purely about the spiritual relationship to StarClan and as such doesn't have families. Maybe that second job could maybe be merged with the mediator position, since that's also a job that's 'outside' of Clan politics so to speak.
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 27, 2021 14:36:15 GMT -5
there's nothing stopping leaders from having kits except the characters' own misgivings about balancing the duties.
there's also nothing stopping medicine cats from leaving their role and becoming a normal warrior if they decide they actually do want a mate and family. you're not permanently stuck to the position, even as an adult but especially as an apprentice.
honestly, it's abundantly clear to me that the medicine cat rule is based on the real-world equivalent of latin catholic priests' abstinence, except without any of the sensible theological explanation behind it. the authors were like "hmm thats a thing some religions do, it'll be a good way to slap in some culture and drama" but didnt actually come up with a good in-universe reason to explain the rule.
|
|
|
Post by Redstorm on Feb 27, 2021 15:00:38 GMT -5
I think people over-exaggerate how much Leafpool is a cat bound by "duty". I believe she returned back to the clans because she decided that her love for being a medicine cat and for the clan outweighed her love for Crowfeather. She ran off in the first place because she was internally unsure of which she loved more. That's not to say that the rules aren't overly rigid though.
Same logic with her kits, she loved them so much that she truly wanted to do what she thought was best to primarily protect them.
|
|
|
Post by catixx on Mar 7, 2021 6:09:16 GMT -5
First I should to mention that I'm a german girl and I'm not so good to write in english. Please be sympathy for me... I would be happy if you correct my grammar and spelling.
To come about Leafpool: I think a kitten can't imagine what it means to have to resign to get a family. Maybe she would be six or eight years old as a human and I think we all remember that we can't make a decision (as a child) for several years. As I was younger I wouldn't have a family and that's not what a kid to have thinking about. They wanted to play games, meet friends and watching TV. (Not as a cat obviously, lol) A kitten like Leafkit see that a healer is a special member in a clan, can help cats and get appreciation from all the other cats- I guess that is what the most of the warriors wanted to have. Nobody can demand that a kitten makes decisions in that size for his whole life - it is to young.
I can understand if cats wanted to become a healer and to become a warrior too. But I don't understand why the leaders think that a kitten can make a decision for the entire clan...
(I know many people don't like Leafpool but my opinion refers to all cats, not specific Leafpool)
So, I hope anybody understands what I wanted to say.. Please don't judge me for my bad english skills- I try to become better.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 7, 2021 8:39:18 GMT -5
First I should to mention that I'm a german girl and I'm not so good to write in english. Please be sympathy for me... I would be happy if you correct my grammar and spelling. To come about Leafpool: I think a kitten can't imagine what it means to have to resign to get a family. Maybe she would be six or eight years old as a human and I think we all remember that we can't make a decision (as a child) for several years. As I was younger I wouldn't have a family and that's not what a kid to have thinking about. They wanted to play games, meet friends and watching TV. (Not as a cat obviously, lol) A kitten like Leafkit see that a healer is a special member in a clan, can help cats and get appreciation from all the other cats- I guess that is what the most of the warriors wanted to have. Nobody can demand that a kitten makes decisions in that size for his whole life - it is to young. I can understand if cats wanted to become a healer and to become a warrior too. But I don't understand why the leaders think that a kitten can make a decision for the entire clan... (I know many people don't like Leafpool but my opinion refers to all cats, not specific Leafpool) So, I hope anybody understands what I wanted to say.. Please don't judge me for my bad english skills- I try to become better. You did well! English can be hard.
|
|