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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 25, 2021 16:38:34 GMT -5
i hate moth flight for ruining medicine cat's lives... just because she couldnt handle raising kits and being a healer at the same time, doesnt mean no medicine cat in the future would be the same way...yellowfang and leafpool are living proof of medicine cats putting their biases of kin aside to be good medicine cats (heck, include cinderpelt too! even though she didn't have kits, she still let her crush on fireheart go and stayed a good medicine cat with no problems!)
do you think acorn fur rejected moth flight's rules and still had kits with red claw anyways? i REALLY wish this were true because the medicine cat rules are stupid and i want acorn fur to be truly happy and do what she wants.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 16:41:59 GMT -5
I really hope so but I doubt we'll ever find out and that it'll ever be canon. However if new DOTC material comes out we could be pleasantly surprised!
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 25, 2021 16:43:34 GMT -5
I really hope so but I doubt we'll ever find out and that it'll ever be canon. However if new DOTC material comes out we could be pleasantly surprised! it'd be a cool plot point to go over. the rules were new back then so it wouldn't be a surprise if no one listened to them yet...then that would worry me because what if something bad happened to acorn fur and/or her kits and/or red claw...? and then we see her turn into a supporter of the rules later...? that would hurt omg
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 25, 2021 16:50:13 GMT -5
Most rules are created due to experiences, so I can understand why Moth Flight created the rule. Don't forget she basically had StarClan's blessing as well. As for Acorn Fur, I think she did. She was the most reluctant and I can see her at least secretly becoming mates with Red Claw, but not necessarily having kits with him. Either that, or they're mates in StarClan.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Pretty busy irl so not online as much atm...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Feb 25, 2021 16:50:57 GMT -5
I hope so as well but the authors would probably turn it into a "lesson" for future generations of Medicine Cats to respect that part about the Warrior Code.
So it could be that Acorn Fur/Red Claw or their kits die to teach the Clans "the importance of listening to StarClan".
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 25, 2021 16:53:57 GMT -5
I hope so as well but the authors would probably turn it into a "lesson" for future generations of Medicine Cats to respect that part about the Warrior Code. So it could be that Acorn Fur/Red Claw or their kits die to teach the Clans "the importance of listening to StarClan". it would be sad to read about, but i am willing to have it happen if it explains why in the world anyone would follow such a selfish rule lol
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Post by cable on Feb 25, 2021 17:00:25 GMT -5
theres also mudfur, and like honestly most of the drama and trouble that comes from medicine cats having kits is caused by the rule existing lol. also, maybe. i hope they had kits. screw moth flights rule.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 25, 2021 17:03:52 GMT -5
theres also mudfur, and like honestly most of the drama and trouble that comes from medicine cats having kits is caused by the rule existing lol. also, maybe. i hope they had kits. screw moth flights rule. Mudfur became a father before he became a medicine cat.
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Post by cable on Feb 25, 2021 17:04:29 GMT -5
theres also mudfur, and like honestly most of the drama and trouble that comes from medicine cats having kits is caused by the rule existing lol. also, maybe. i hope they had kits. screw moth flights rule. Mudfur became a father before he became a medicine cat. even then it still helps disprove the idea of biased treatment towards kin.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Feb 25, 2021 17:16:36 GMT -5
if medicine cats cant have kits because of bias than leaders shouldn't either
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 25, 2021 17:19:04 GMT -5
Mudfur became a father before he became a medicine cat. even then it still helps disprove the idea of biased treatment towards kin. Oh no, I agree, I just wanted to point out that his case was different for a reason. And Yellowfang and Leafpool were able to handle it, but they also had to keep the truth a secret, so who knows what could've happened had things turned out differently (though I do like to believe they could've handled it even then too). From what I can recall though, even Moth Flight didn't show her kits special treatment. If anything, the problem was more so the opposite, since she was clearly having trouble dividing her duties between being a medicine cat and motherhood, even with the help she was receiving. And when she does leave her kits with someone (Slate), they still run off anyway and Spider Paw nearly dies until Micah helps Moth Flight save him. The Clans were also much smaller compared to now and, of course, Moth Flight had ADD and was the equivalent of a teen mom when she got pregnant, so it's always possible had, say, Dappled Pelt been the first medicine cat to fall in love, the rule would've either never existed in the first place or at least wouldn't have been as strict as it is now.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Feb 25, 2021 18:10:59 GMT -5
I don't think that Acorn Fur and Red Clan ever had kits because we probably would have heard of them in canon. But I personally hope they did.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 25, 2021 18:42:16 GMT -5
if medicine cats cant have kits because of bias than leaders shouldn't either yeah, and clearly firestar and leafstar were capable of being leaders while also being parents (stronger case for leafstar since the rule and reason seems to be tied to females...which is unforuante). this is why perma-queens are an absolute necessity. it prevents female leaders and medicine cats from having divided attentions. edit: tigerstar II also seems to be good at being both leader and father.
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Post by Hollyfall on Feb 25, 2021 20:07:41 GMT -5
I like to headcanon her as the first medicine cat who actually broke the rule, so I think she had kits with him at some point.
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Post by Brindlefern on Feb 25, 2021 22:13:42 GMT -5
I like to headcanon her as the first medicine cat who actually broke the rule, so I think she had kits with him at some point. Acorn Fur going "Frick your new rule" and having kits anyways is always such a HC to me like... the nerve, the SPITE. I love it. x3 Move over Needletail we have a real rebel here.
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Post by Fireleap on Feb 25, 2021 22:36:15 GMT -5
I doubt it.
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Post by Rainsplash on Feb 26, 2021 8:46:07 GMT -5
No? I'd love to think she did, but she doesn't strike me as the rebelling type. Ugh, Moth Flight, please, your rule is stupid and selfish. Honestly, the Erins should've handled these background stories right. Bluestar's story doesn't make real sense when you actually read Bluestar's Prophecy. Moth Flight's Vision makes the code ridiculous. Yellowfang's Secret made this new bad guy who's bad but not evil, good, good, NO NOT GOOD. Yellowfang's superpowers! Yay! Is she a part of a prophecy?
I'm getting off track. Anyway, I like to think Red Claw waited patiently, and they were mates in StarClan. Huh, who made it possible for people to be StarClan mates?
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Feb 26, 2021 12:08:03 GMT -5
I hope so. I really hate Mothflight and her rule.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 26, 2021 13:45:37 GMT -5
Wasn't it StarClan that enforced the no kits rule? Not Moth Flight, I'm not sure why but it's weird that she keeps getting blamed for the idea when she only came up with the notion, not enforce it like StarClan did.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 14:47:12 GMT -5
Wasn't it StarClan that enforced the no kits rule? Not Moth Flight, I'm not sure why but it's weird that she keeps getting blamed for the idea when she only came up with the notion, not enforce it like StarClan did. Yes, thank you! These is the entire scenes:
Moth Flight may have come up with the rule, but StarClan approved of it. She clearly values their opinion above anyone else's, and with good reason since they gave her a purpose in life. Not a single one of them protested, not even Gray Wing. And let's be honest, Acorn Fur was being a little delusional in thinking taking care of kits was easy. It's not. And yes, Moth Flight was being a little snobby when she said that Leafpool broke her rule, but then again, nothing about that statement had been inaccurate, either. Because the thing about most rules is that they're created from experiences, something that's pointed out in the book. There's a reason why parents will forbid their children from doing certain things they themselves had done in the past. Another thing to keep in mind is that Moth Flight was not only the equivalent of a teen mom with ADD, but her kits always wanted to spend time with her even after she left them with someone else. The entire reason Spider Paw nearly drowned was because they were looking for her, and that was the last straw. Who knows, maybe things could've turned out differently if an older cat like Dappled Pelt had been the first medicine cat to have kits instead.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Feb 26, 2021 16:46:32 GMT -5
I hope so. Would be really cool.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Feb 26, 2021 17:50:54 GMT -5
We all know starclan is literally trash though
like
they are legit garbage
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 18:09:16 GMT -5
We all know starclan is literally trash though like they are legit garbage Well, yeah, but what we think isn't really relevant when StarClan is the closest thing the cats have to gods. This is about in-universe.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Feb 26, 2021 18:14:32 GMT -5
We all know starclan is literally trash though like they are legit garbage Well, yeah, but what we think isn't really relevant when StarClan is the closest thing the cats have to gods. This is about in-universe. One of the cats needs to smarten up
'how lucky can they be, they're dead'
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 26, 2021 19:09:21 GMT -5
Wasn't it StarClan that enforced the no kits rule? Not Moth Flight, I'm not sure why but it's weird that she keeps getting blamed for the idea when she only came up with the notion, not enforce it like StarClan did. Yes, thank you! These is the entire scenes: Moth Flight may have come up with the rule, but StarClan approved of it. She clearly values their opinion above anyone else's, and with good reason since they gave her a purpose in life. Not a single one of them protested, not even Gray Wing. And let's be honest, Acorn Fur was being a little delusional in thinking taking care of kits was easy. It's not. And yes, Moth Flight was being a little snobby when she said that Leafpool broke her rule, but then again, nothing about that statement had been inaccurate, either. Because the thing about most rules is that they're created from experiences, something that's pointed out in the book. There's a reason why parents will forbid their children from doing certain things they themselves had done in the past. Another thing to keep in mind is that Moth Flight was not only the equivalent of a teen mom with ADD, but her kits always wanted to spend time with her even after she left them with someone else. The entire reason Spider Paw nearly drowned was because they were looking for her, and that was the last straw. Who knows, maybe things could've turned out differently if an older cat like Dappled Pelt had been the first medicine cat to have kits instead. Also, some things to point out from this scene; when Acorn Fur was being scolded by StarClan, Moth Flight defended her, and said she wasn't foolish. She understands how Acorn Fur feels and how much she would want a mate and kits, but she also understands how she thinks she can do both that and the duty of a medicine cat. Acorn Fur can't have cake and to eat it too. Not only that, when she looked to Moth Flight for advise, she rightfully and ultimately left that choice to Acorn Fur, saying it was her decision to make. And it really was. Acorn Fur was given the opportunity to choose; either put her clan first and StarClan as a medicine cat, or have a more normal life as a queen with her kits and mate. StarClan chose her to be a medicine cat, but they also left her with the decision to stay one or reject the that life for one she desired more. In the end she chose to stay a medicine cat, and was even asked yet again if she was sure about it. The whole time, when she was given the opportunity to walk away from the offer 3 times, she didn't. So I don't know why people think that Moth Flight and StarClan forced her to be a medicine cat, if her desire to be a queen and have a family was stronger then she had every opportunity to choose that instead. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but personally I've always thought that medicine cats were pretty much similar to nuns. Nuns back in the day couldn't marry or have children while serving a convent. However they can still become a nun even if they've already been married or had kids in the past, if they're single they can devote themselves to the convent, so basically like Mudfur.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 19:35:27 GMT -5
Yes, thank you! These is the entire scenes: Moth Flight may have come up with the rule, but StarClan approved of it. She clearly values their opinion above anyone else's, and with good reason since they gave her a purpose in life. Not a single one of them protested, not even Gray Wing. And let's be honest, Acorn Fur was being a little delusional in thinking taking care of kits was easy. It's not. And yes, Moth Flight was being a little snobby when she said that Leafpool broke her rule, but then again, nothing about that statement had been inaccurate, either. Because the thing about most rules is that they're created from experiences, something that's pointed out in the book. There's a reason why parents will forbid their children from doing certain things they themselves had done in the past. Another thing to keep in mind is that Moth Flight was not only the equivalent of a teen mom with ADD, but her kits always wanted to spend time with her even after she left them with someone else. The entire reason Spider Paw nearly drowned was because they were looking for her, and that was the last straw. Who knows, maybe things could've turned out differently if an older cat like Dappled Pelt had been the first medicine cat to have kits instead. Also, some things to point out from this scene; when Acorn Fur was being scolded by StarClan, Moth Flight defended her, and said she wasn't foolish. She understands how Acorn Fur feels and how much she would want a mate and kits, but she also understands how she thinks she can do both that and the duty of a medicine cat. Acorn Fur can't have cake and to eat it too. Not only that, when she looked to Moth Flight for advise, she rightfully and ultimately left that choice to Acorn Fur, saying it was her decision to make. And it really was. Acorn Fur was given the opportunity to choose; either put her clan first and StarClan as a medicine cat, or have a more normal life as a queen with her kits and mate. StarClan chose her to be a medicine cat, but they also left her with the decision to stay one or reject the that life for one she desired more. In the end she chose to stay a medicine cat, and was even asked yet again if she was sure about it. The whole time, when she was given the opportunity to walk away from the offer 3 times, she didn't. So I don't know why people think that Moth Flight and StarClan forced her to be a medicine cat, if her desire to be a queen and have a family was stronger then she had every opportunity to choose that instead. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but personally I've always thought that medicine cats were pretty much similar to nuns. Nuns back in the day couldn't marry or have children while serving a convent. However they can still become a nun even if they've already been married or had kids in the past, if they're single they can devote themselves to the convent, so basically like Mudfur. Yeah, exactly! And I agree with you on the analogy. There are several religious orders where celibacy is a requirement in order to serve this or that deity, and I think it's pretty clear that that's what the Erins were going for here for the most part, particularly with nuns. And Moth Flight isn't even my favorite character, but I think the hate she's been getting is a little unfair. At the very least, I don't see nearly as much hate directed at StarClan for this specific instance as I do with her or I'm just not looking hard enough. But yeah, Acorn Fur made her choice. No one really forced her to agree to the vow. Although I do wonder if she would've still made the same choice if she wasn't the only medicine cat SkyClan had at the time. Who knows, maybe she was the first medicine cat to step down after training a successor.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 26, 2021 21:10:16 GMT -5
Also, some things to point out from this scene; when Acorn Fur was being scolded by StarClan, Moth Flight defended her, and said she wasn't foolish. She understands how Acorn Fur feels and how much she would want a mate and kits, but she also understands how she thinks she can do both that and the duty of a medicine cat. Acorn Fur can't have cake and to eat it too. Not only that, when she looked to Moth Flight for advise, she rightfully and ultimately left that choice to Acorn Fur, saying it was her decision to make. And it really was. Acorn Fur was given the opportunity to choose; either put her clan first and StarClan as a medicine cat, or have a more normal life as a queen with her kits and mate. StarClan chose her to be a medicine cat, but they also left her with the decision to stay one or reject the that life for one she desired more. In the end she chose to stay a medicine cat, and was even asked yet again if she was sure about it. The whole time, when she was given the opportunity to walk away from the offer 3 times, she didn't. So I don't know why people think that Moth Flight and StarClan forced her to be a medicine cat, if her desire to be a queen and have a family was stronger then she had every opportunity to choose that instead. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but personally I've always thought that medicine cats were pretty much similar to nuns. Nuns back in the day couldn't marry or have children while serving a convent. However they can still become a nun even if they've already been married or had kids in the past, if they're single they can devote themselves to the convent, so basically like Mudfur. Yeah, exactly! And I agree with you on the analogy. There are several religious orders where celibacy is a requirement in order to serve this or that deity, and I think it's pretty clear that that's what the Erins were going for here for the most part, particularly with nuns. And Moth Flight isn't even my favorite character, but I think the hate she's been getting is a little unfair. At the very least, I don't see nearly as much hate directed at StarClan for this specific instance as I do with her or I'm just not looking hard enough. But yeah, Acorn Fur made her choice. No one really forced her to agree to the vow. Although I do wonder if she would've still made the same choice if she wasn't the only medicine cat SkyClan had at the time. Who knows, maybe she was the first medicine cat to step down after training a successor. i think people who hate moth flight think about what happened in squirrelflight's hope. didn't moth flight show up mad at leafpool? to me, it felt like moth flight was pissed that leafpool proved her wrong about medicine cats being able to have kits and be a medicine cat at the same time lol. that's why im on board with not liking moth flight (not just bc the code she made sucked).
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 26, 2021 22:05:37 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly! And I agree with you on the analogy. There are several religious orders where celibacy is a requirement in order to serve this or that deity, and I think it's pretty clear that that's what the Erins were going for here for the most part, particularly with nuns. And Moth Flight isn't even my favorite character, but I think the hate she's been getting is a little unfair. At the very least, I don't see nearly as much hate directed at StarClan for this specific instance as I do with her or I'm just not looking hard enough. But yeah, Acorn Fur made her choice. No one really forced her to agree to the vow. Although I do wonder if she would've still made the same choice if she wasn't the only medicine cat SkyClan had at the time. Who knows, maybe she was the first medicine cat to step down after training a successor. i think people who hate moth flight think about what happened in squirrelflight's hope. didn't moth flight show up mad at leafpool? to me, it felt like moth flight was pissed that leafpool proved her wrong about medicine cats being able to have kits and be a medicine cat at the same time lol. that's why im on board with not liking moth flight (not just bc the code she made sucked). Here's the exact scene. It seems like Moth Flight was more upset at the lying and lack of remorse than she was at Leafpool having kits at all (though it was obviously part of it). Remember that the former was from a completely different time, so this also likely affected her views on the matter, as well as her having inherited her mother's stubbornness. And if even Littlecloud had a problem with it, that should probably say something. That being said, from a meta perspective, this entire scene was just incredibly stupid for a variety of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 23:34:09 GMT -5
I think acorn fur should have just had kits with red claw anyway. I hate how starclan made that rule like..... what- why?
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Post by Cheetahstar on Feb 26, 2021 23:47:01 GMT -5
didn't starclan tell Squirrelflight to lie
even though Squirrelflight had said no the first time?
XD
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