#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Feb 18, 2021 17:08:47 GMT -5
What are you thoughts on Ashfur in The Broken Code? I personally think he's a fine villian. He has done some things I have not seen before, so...
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Feb 18, 2021 18:05:30 GMT -5
Meh. I'm glad Ashfur's story is being finished up, but how did he turn from a bitter incel into a scheming villain so fast?
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Feb 18, 2021 18:26:27 GMT -5
Meh. I'm glad Ashfur's story is being finished up, but how did he turn from a bitter incel into a scheming villain so fast? Yeah, from his death in Power Of Three #5: Long Shadows to his reappearence in The Broken Code #1: Lost Stars. That's just a little bit of time in between.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 18, 2021 18:28:00 GMT -5
I like Ashfur as the main villain of TBC.
But only if it also means that he won't show up afterwards ever again.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Feb 18, 2021 18:40:13 GMT -5
No. I can't wait until he's gone.
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Feb 18, 2021 18:43:10 GMT -5
No. I can't wait until he's gone. Agreed!
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Post by Sundance on Feb 18, 2021 19:05:17 GMT -5
Love the concept, feel okay about the execution. I was really hoping Ashfur's entire character arc wouldn't revolve around Squirrelflight. That his obsession for her would be a primary focus of his, sure, but that ultimately he wouldn't be reduced to a lovesick puppy still sniveling over her rejection. That he would have a genuine concern about the warrior code being broken time and again in recent years with impunity (especially by Firekin) and feel vindicated into trying to "fix" that. To truly, in his eyes, be a good, proper leader for ThunderClan. So seeing Ashfur essentially admit in Darkness Within that he could care less about the Clans, that all he really desires is Squirrelflight's llovvee and enacting petty destructive revenge ... is a bummer. I like three-dimensional villains who are shockingly cruel and barbaric yet still have a bit of heart to hit you in the feels. So Ashfur showing little regard for ThunderClan by callously treating the elders and dishing out increasingly pointless exiles seemed like a cheap way to make sure the reader knew "look! he's evil to the bone! he cares about no one but himself, and Squirrelflight!"
Though as critical as that may have sounded, I've still really enjoyed Ashfur's development and think The Broken Code is shaping up to be one of the greatest arcs yet because of his reintroduction. :-P
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Feb 18, 2021 21:40:33 GMT -5
Meh. I'm glad Ashfur's story is being finished up, but how did he turn from a bitter incel into a scheming villain so fast? I'm not sure it was really "fast" to be honest. Ashfur died in PO3, which takes place several years before TBC. During that time he could have had plenty of time for his anger and hatred to fester into what it is now. If anything, I'd actually argue that it took too long to get to this point. With years between Ashfur's death and reintroduction as a villain, some readers could forget that he had ever actually been a problem. While this certainly makes him a more shocking villain, it also seems to come completely out of left field. The only thing I can really think of is that maybe Hollyleaf joining StarClan may have triggered him in some way (since, you know, she murdered him) and caused him to start searching for ways to take revenge and get Squirrelflight or himself? I don't know. There is definitely something in the timeline that doesn't completely make sense, though.
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Duskfire
"Winners focus on winning. Losers focus on winners." - Tom Brady, the GOAT
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Post by Duskfire on Feb 18, 2021 21:43:02 GMT -5
Meh. I'm glad Ashfur's story is being finished up, but how did he turn from a bitter incel into a scheming villain so fast? I'm not sure it was really "fast" to be honest. Ashfur died in PO3, which takes place several years before TBC. During that time he could have had plenty of time for his anger and hatred to fester into what it is now. Yes, Ashfur had more than plenty of time. But, sadly, it's Ashfur, not anyone else. ASHFUR, can't get over his anger even 3 arcs later (18 flippin' books later), so he has to come again just to love the dark ginger she cat with one white paw, who has a squirrel like, bushy tail, and green eyes.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 18, 2021 21:56:07 GMT -5
ashfur was never special, super smart, or had a legit reason to be given this special treatment as such a big bad in TBC. it's so dumb and a huge waste. I hate TBC because of ashfur and squirrelflight hogging the spotlight in an arc where we got 3 new, young protags who get sidelined because "squirrelflight this, squirrelflight that." ashfur being brought back is stupid and TBC is a bad arc because they never asked themselves "why now" or "why only ashfur" because there is no way they can write a logical in universe reason to explain why only ashfur figured out how to do what he's doing, or why only NOW does he figure this ex machina out? why didnt anyone else who had a legit reason to be bitter in starclan do this? why only a dumb incel who was never even a serious villain to begin with? it's so lame and it makes me angry.
ashfur never had a legit reason to deserve this special treatment as a villain. his motivation is lame, not even serious to get so worked up over, and flimsy compared to other dead cats who could have had a better reason to be doing what he's been doing. he was never a mastermind even when he was alive (he piggybacked off hawkfrost's plan and came up with the fire scene on the spot and obviously wasnt a smart planner on his own merits).
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Feb 19, 2021 0:01:32 GMT -5
Hate the cat, love how he turned out as a villain. He must've had a storm brewing in his head up in StarClan.
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Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on Feb 19, 2021 5:47:41 GMT -5
It's just strange to me. Feels like I'm reading a completely different character who just stole Ashfur's name & crush on Squirrelflight
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fangbranch
are shorts shorts or are they just long pants?
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Post by fangbranch on Feb 19, 2021 6:20:15 GMT -5
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Post by Brindlefern on Feb 19, 2021 11:34:11 GMT -5
He's always felt entitled to Squirrelflight, this development and spiral into how he is today imo is not OOC for him and in fact, perfectly in-character for him as he's been an incel ever since we saw how bad he fell after Squilf's rejection of him. There are people that get worse and worse, and will do whatever it takes to get or keep someone they feel entitled to, to the point of even hurting others to do it, of even hurting said person they're feeling entitled to to do it. I won't get too personal, but I know someone in my family who's willing to manipulate, hurt and even come close to killing his own GFs to keep them trapped in his hold when they want to leave. To the point he's been to jail for doing so multiple times. This same someone holds grudges for years and will use them against others to try and manipulate. These psychos exist, and in relationships I swear they take it up to 1000%. I only wish I never had experiences knowing how dark it could be outside stories on the news. So yes, I'm glad he's a villain, he has every right to be because of how scary real he is. He deserves to be a villain, he deserves to be killed. All this Ashfur is doing is in-character, and the only people that I have seen and experienced crying that he isn't, are Ashfur kinnies, people who think that they ARE him and try to excuse his behavior and try to excuse that he belongs in Starclan and I'm honest to god horrified that there are people that are like that. You can like Ashfur, but this is a whole 'nother level of lack of awareness of his actions and how people/characters like him work.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 19, 2021 14:54:31 GMT -5
ashfur was never special, super smart, or had a legit reason to be given this special treatment as such a big bad in TBC. it's so dumb and a huge waste. I hate TBC because of ashfur and squirrelflight hogging the spotlight in an arc where we got 3 new, young protags who get sidelined because "squirrelflight this, squirrelflight that." ashfur being brought back is stupid and TBC is a bad arc because they never asked themselves "why now" or "why only ashfur" because there is no way they can write a logical in universe reason to explain why only ashfur figured out how to do what he's doing, or why only NOW does he figure this ex machina out? why didnt anyone else who had a legit reason to be bitter in starclan do this? why only a dumb incel who was never even a serious villain to begin with? it's so lame and it makes me angry. ashfur never had a legit reason to deserve this special treatment as a villain. his motivation is lame, not even serious to get so worked up over, and flimsy compared to other dead cats who could have had a better reason to be doing what he's been doing. he was never a mastermind even when he was alive (he piggybacked off hawkfrost's plan and came up with the fire scene on the spot and obviously wasnt a smart planner on his own merits). If you think about it, his motives are rather really realistic. He’s probably the most realistic villain in the series. There are loads of people in real life who react this way or similarly over a break up. he already was a villain though, thats my main gripe. this series cannot move on from anything. they let old characters live way too long, they made squirrelflight (an OLD character) the focus of TBC because another old character is the main villain. the point is this series canot move on from ANYTHING in the past. if people just let ashfur go, he wouldnt be dragged back to the present to be an undeserved villain. just bc he's realistic, doesnt mean he deserves all this special attention. he's not this big bad who is the ONLY ONE To figure out starclan loop holes. his motives arent big enough to be this special and be the ONLY STARCLAN CAT EVER to still hold a grudge when dead. you mean cats like shrewclaw and mudclaw didnt still carry grudges? they had legit reasons meanwhile ashfur's is only his entitlement over a mate...? what about mudclaw's entitlement to leadership and power? how is a mate worth destroying cat heaven over? it doesnt matter how good the imposter is. his identitiy of an OLD CHARACTER who ALREADY had their time in the spotlight bring brought back is NOT good. this is why i will never like TBC. i hate how people grovel at its feet and think its the best or that the imposter is the best. TBC is just power of three part 3 bc of squirrel and ash being the focus AGAIN! how does no one understand my point? the past should stay in the past. the series as a whole cannot move on and thus makes the fans be the same. ashfur and squirrelflight should NOT be the focus of this new arc and yet they are...if they just let them go like other old characters, this wouldnt be such a big problem. ashfur WAS a villain. he WASNT such a serious threat to deserve being a "big bad" who deserves alll this special attention and plotline. this plotline would be better if the imposter was someone new, not someone old.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 19, 2021 15:07:05 GMT -5
If you think about it, his motives are rather really realistic. He’s probably the most realistic villain in the series. There are loads of people in real life who react this way or similarly over a break up. he already was a villain though, thats my main gripe. this series cannot move on from anything. they let old characters live way too long, they made squirrelflight (an OLD character) the focus of TBC because another old character is the main villain. the point is this series canot move on from ANYTHING in the past. if people just let ashfur go, he wouldnt be dragged back to the present to be an undeserved villain. just bc he's realistic, doesnt mean he deserves all this special attention. he's not this big bad who is the ONLY ONE To figure out starclan loop holes. his motives arent big enough to be this special and be the ONLY STARCLAN CAT EVER to still hold a grudge when dead. you mean cats like shrewclaw and mudclaw didnt still carry grudges? they had legit reasons meanwhile ashfur's is only his entitlement over a mate...? what about mudclaw's entitlement to leadership and power? how is a mate worth destroying cat heaven over? it doesnt matter how good the imposter is. his identitiy of an OLD CHARACTER who ALREADY had their time in the spotlight bring brought back is NOT good. this is why i will never like TBC. i hate how people grovel at its feet and think its the best or that the imposter is the best. TBC is just power of three part 3 bc of squirrel and ash being the focus AGAIN! how does no one understand my point? the past should stay in the past. the series as a whole cannot move on and thus makes the fans be the same. ashfur and squirrelflight should NOT be the focus of this new arc and yet they are...if they just let them go like other old characters, this wouldnt be such a big problem. ashfur WAS a villain. he WASNT such a serious threat to deserve being a "big bad" who deserves alll this special attention and plotline. this plotline would be better if the imposter was someone new, not someone old. I mean every thing has to be discovered by SOMEONE. If Ashfur simply got lucky enough or was clever enough to be the one to discover these abilities, I don't see what makes that so unrealistic. I mean, there's all kinds of famous people throughout history who just happened to pull one over other people despite a seeming lack of qualifications. With the logic being employed here, Genghis Khan would never have conquered most of Asia because some random bastard slave is not "big enough to be special". George Washington Carver would have never made such a huge impact on the US agricultural sector with his scientific discoveries because he was just born an illiterate slave. Sometimes seemingly ordinary people can distinguish themselves, this isn't really all that strange. Mudclaw's motivation being compared to Ashfur's is strange. When we last saw Mudclaw, he was running away like a coward from his failed coup and tried to blame it all on Hawkfrost. I think he'd actually be less believable as a vengeful spirit than Ashfur; Mudclaw doesn't have the strength of will to do that. Ashfur, on the other hand, is both insane enough and determined enough that yeah, I can see him pulling it off.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 19, 2021 15:22:27 GMT -5
he already was a villain though, thats my main gripe. this series cannot move on from anything. they let old characters live way too long, they made squirrelflight (an OLD character) the focus of TBC because another old character is the main villain. the point is this series canot move on from ANYTHING in the past. if people just let ashfur go, he wouldnt be dragged back to the present to be an undeserved villain. just bc he's realistic, doesnt mean he deserves all this special attention. he's not this big bad who is the ONLY ONE To figure out starclan loop holes. his motives arent big enough to be this special and be the ONLY STARCLAN CAT EVER to still hold a grudge when dead. you mean cats like shrewclaw and mudclaw didnt still carry grudges? they had legit reasons meanwhile ashfur's is only his entitlement over a mate...? what about mudclaw's entitlement to leadership and power? how is a mate worth destroying cat heaven over? it doesnt matter how good the imposter is. his identitiy of an OLD CHARACTER who ALREADY had their time in the spotlight bring brought back is NOT good. this is why i will never like TBC. i hate how people grovel at its feet and think its the best or that the imposter is the best. TBC is just power of three part 3 bc of squirrel and ash being the focus AGAIN! how does no one understand my point? the past should stay in the past. the series as a whole cannot move on and thus makes the fans be the same. ashfur and squirrelflight should NOT be the focus of this new arc and yet they are...if they just let them go like other old characters, this wouldnt be such a big problem. ashfur WAS a villain. he WASNT such a serious threat to deserve being a "big bad" who deserves alll this special attention and plotline. this plotline would be better if the imposter was someone new, not someone old. Well considering he tried to kill 3 cats and kind of succeeded in killing his own leader and still made it to StarClan....he clearly never got what he deserved. I do not get how anyone can be okay with him being rewarded for his murderous actions. It makes sense that out of all the villains, he is the one to return. Did you hate Omen of the Stars too? Since Tigerstar, Brokenstar, Mapleshade and Darkstripe all returned as the main villains despite being old villains? It was the same situation as The Broken Code. OotS was bad for many reasons (pointless dovewing POV and relationship drama, the tribe book, firestar being included which is the same issue as squirrelflights now in TBC...), the dark forest characters; just one of the many problems. and i swear, if someone in HC or the editing team just said NO to vicky about ashfur's fate, NONE of this would be a problem...but no, fans cant let it go so they had to bring ashfur back JUST for this mistake by vicky..it's all convoluted and dumb. people need to let things go because now the series if polluted with old characters and the new protags have nothing. it's BECAUSE of the imposters identity that the protags are now rendered useless bc now people will only want squirrelflight to end this conflict...do u not see the problem? power of three and oots already had this problem (squirrelflight and ashfur stole power of three from jay, holly, and lion with the fire scene and reveal plot; oots was stolen by firestar being the special forth cat, and now squirrelflight and ashfur ONCE AGAIN stealing spotlight in TBC by ashfur even being involved as the big bad at all). and it only snowballed from there. AVOS was at least a bit better bc darktail was a new face despite his connection to someone old.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 19, 2021 15:27:27 GMT -5
this plotline would be better if the imposter was someone new, not someone old. Just wanted focus on this here, why would it be someone new? Ashfur or not, the impostor was very obviously going to be an old antagonist anyway. It really wouldn't have made any sense if it had been someone we've never even heard of before. "New" doesn't always mean "good".
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 19, 2021 15:28:19 GMT -5
he already was a villain though, thats my main gripe. this series cannot move on from anything. they let old characters live way too long, they made squirrelflight (an OLD character) the focus of TBC because another old character is the main villain. the point is this series canot move on from ANYTHING in the past. if people just let ashfur go, he wouldnt be dragged back to the present to be an undeserved villain. just bc he's realistic, doesnt mean he deserves all this special attention. he's not this big bad who is the ONLY ONE To figure out starclan loop holes. his motives arent big enough to be this special and be the ONLY STARCLAN CAT EVER to still hold a grudge when dead. you mean cats like shrewclaw and mudclaw didnt still carry grudges? they had legit reasons meanwhile ashfur's is only his entitlement over a mate...? what about mudclaw's entitlement to leadership and power? how is a mate worth destroying cat heaven over? it doesnt matter how good the imposter is. his identitiy of an OLD CHARACTER who ALREADY had their time in the spotlight bring brought back is NOT good. this is why i will never like TBC. i hate how people grovel at its feet and think its the best or that the imposter is the best. TBC is just power of three part 3 bc of squirrel and ash being the focus AGAIN! how does no one understand my point? the past should stay in the past. the series as a whole cannot move on and thus makes the fans be the same. ashfur and squirrelflight should NOT be the focus of this new arc and yet they are...if they just let them go like other old characters, this wouldnt be such a big problem. ashfur WAS a villain. he WASNT such a serious threat to deserve being a "big bad" who deserves alll this special attention and plotline. this plotline would be better if the imposter was someone new, not someone old. I mean every thing has to be discovered by SOMEONE. If Ashfur simply got lucky enough or was clever enough to be the one to discover these abilities, I don't see what makes that so unrealistic. I mean, there's all kinds of famous people throughout history who just happened to pull one over other people despite a seeming lack of qualifications. With the logic being employed here, Genghis Khan would never have conquered most of Asia because some random bastard slave is not "big enough to be special". George Washington Carver would have never made such a huge impact on the US agricultural sector with his scientific discoveries because he was just born an illiterate slave. Sometimes seemingly ordinary people can distinguish themselves, this isn't really all that strange. Mudclaw's motivation being compared to Ashfur's is strange. When we last saw Mudclaw, he was running away like a coward from his failed coup and tried to blame it all on Hawkfrost. I think he'd actually be less believable as a vengeful spirit than Ashfur; Mudclaw doesn't have the strength of will to do that. Ashfur, on the other hand, is both insane enough and determined enough that yeah, I can see him pulling it off. simply being lucky isn't good enough for me. theres no logical in universe explanation they can write to explain how ashfur is the ONLY one for any of this stuff. and i use mudclaw to compare because u'd think somoene like mudclaw would still be bitter in death with how HIS story and life ended. there should be other cats in starclan who r a bit bitter about how their lives ended or what happened in their lives that they deemed unfair. but it's ONLY ashfur to ever do this...? just bc of vicky's mistake that no one in HC or the editing team had the guts to tell her NO to? if they just said NO about ashfur being in starclan, this wouldnt even be an issue and TBC would be better off bc there'd be no squirrelflight and ashfur focus to hijack another arc with new protags AGAIN (they already hijacked power of three together, and oots has its own big mess for another day). the point of bringing up mudclaw is to prove that the writers who came up with TBC didn't ask WHY. why is ashfur the only one to carry grudges in starclan when no other cat with actual reasons to be bitter about life were ever shown to? why is ashfur the only one to figure out a loophole in starclan and cause all this mysterious damage to the clans connection to it? its clear they never asked WHY when coming up with this plot. does no one see the problem of ashfur being the imposter to this day? because of ashfur being the imposter, root, shadow, and bristle have little to do with the end of this conflict. beause ashfur is only concerned with squirrelflight, it's only squirrelflight who should end ashfur otherwise it wont make sense for anyone else. AVOS went in a good direction with not super relying on old characters for too much, but TBC goesright back to squirrelflight and ashfur once again hijacking a whole arc for themselves...for a conflict that should have stayed gone since po3
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 19, 2021 15:29:42 GMT -5
this plotline would be better if the imposter was someone new, not someone old. Just wanted focus on this here, why would it be someone new? Ashfur or not, the impostor was very obviously going to be an old antagonist anyway. It really wouldn't have made any sense if it had been someone we've never even heard of before. "New" doesn't always mean "good". relying on old characters isn't good either. i already said multiple times that this series has a MAJOR problem with relying on old characters and killing off new and young ones. instead of giving younger characters personalities and focus, they prefer to rely on previous and old ones...it's not good. people thinking TBC is good for dragging up an old plot from years ago proves that this series only teaches to rely on the past and not move on to new ideas and new characters.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 19, 2021 15:38:37 GMT -5
I mean every thing has to be discovered by SOMEONE. If Ashfur simply got lucky enough or was clever enough to be the one to discover these abilities, I don't see what makes that so unrealistic. I mean, there's all kinds of famous people throughout history who just happened to pull one over other people despite a seeming lack of qualifications. With the logic being employed here, Genghis Khan would never have conquered most of Asia because some random bastard slave is not "big enough to be special". George Washington Carver would have never made such a huge impact on the US agricultural sector with his scientific discoveries because he was just born an illiterate slave. Sometimes seemingly ordinary people can distinguish themselves, this isn't really all that strange. Mudclaw's motivation being compared to Ashfur's is strange. When we last saw Mudclaw, he was running away like a coward from his failed coup and tried to blame it all on Hawkfrost. I think he'd actually be less believable as a vengeful spirit than Ashfur; Mudclaw doesn't have the strength of will to do that. Ashfur, on the other hand, is both insane enough and determined enough that yeah, I can see him pulling it off. simply being lucky isn't good enough for me. theres no logical in universe explanation they can write to explain how ashfur is the ONLY one for any of this stuff. and i use mudclaw to compare because u'd think somoene like mudclaw would still be bitter in death with how HIS story and life ended. there should be other cats in starclan who r a bit bitter about how their lives ended or what happened in their lives that they deemed unfair. but it's ONLY ashfur to ever do this...? just bc of vicky's mistake that no one in HC or the editing team had the guts to tell her NO to? if they just said NO about ashfur being in starclan, this wouldnt even be an issue and TBC would be better off bc there'd be no squirrelflight and ashfur focus to hijack another arc with new protags AGAIN (they already hijacked power of three together, and oots has its own big mess for another day). the point of bringing up mudclaw is to prove that the writers who came up with TBC didn't ask WHY. why is ashfur the only one to carry grudges in starclan when no other cat with actual reasons to be bitter about life were ever shown to? why is ashfur the only one to figure out a loophole in starclan and cause all this mysterious damage to the clans connection to it? its clear they never asked WHY when coming up with this plot. does no one see the problem of ashfur being the imposter to this day? because of ashfur being the imposter, root, shadow, and bristle have little to do with the end of this conflict. beause ashfur is only concerned with squirrelflight, it's only squirrelflight who should end ashfur otherwise it wont make sense for anyone else. AVOS went in a good direction with not super relying on old characters for too much, but TBC goesright back to squirrelflight and ashfur once again hijacking a whole arc for themselves...for a conflict that should have stayed gone since po3 The in-universe explanation is simply that he was at the right time and place for a cat for his abilities learn the trick, it's really that simple. There's nothing that needs explaining about it, sometimes all it takes is a little luck. Besides, you might notice that Starclan has really only been around for less than a century. That's not a lot of time at all and there's nothing unreasonable about Ashfur being unique when Starclan doesn't exactly contain all of cat kind and history. For all we know this has happened before in the Tribe of Endless Hunting or some other afterlife equivalent and just hasn't happened yet in Starclan. Yeah, they did ask why. They asked what kind of cat is not only holding a grudge but also so determined that he would destroy everything for the sake of his goals, even be willing to die for them? Well, Ashfur fits that description. Mudclaw most certainly does not, with the guy wussing out in his last moments. Ashfur happened to be the first one in Starclan, but Starclan does not hold all that many cats or years of history, not in the grand scheme of things. Rootspring, Bristlerost, and Shadowsight are perfectly well connected to the Impostor. Ashfur tried to murder Shadowsight by throwing him off a cliff and then manipulated him, Bristlefrost was manipulated into carrying out his dirty work and a lot of cats were hurt thanks to her actions along with her clan being shredded, and Rootspring is the one who actually is able to see the supernatural horrors Ashfur is committing. Just because Ashfur didn't initially have a connection with them is an odd complaint to make, after all Tigerclaw initially didn't have a connection with Rusty but he derived one over time too.
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Post by Henry VIII on Feb 19, 2021 15:38:52 GMT -5
I hate him being the villain more than I hate the word mansplaining. ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ is right. Why bring back these cats whose arc should have ended ages ago? Besides, his death was the perfect wrap up. Another reason why Ashfur sucks as the villain is because he only cares about one cat. Anyone who thinks this arc is good must be huge Squirrelflight fans because that's all this arc is about is Squirrelflight and her poor wittle feewings. Oh wait that's every arc. This cat should have died ages ago why is she even still around? Why do we need an arc centered around her? About Ashfur being a realistic villain...all the villains HAVE had been realistic watch the news or read a History book. Ashfur SUCKS as the villain because his focus is only one cat not all the clans what is even the point of having all these new cats? There isn't any because like ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ said they can't let go of old characters. Ashfur would be okay as a henchman but as a the main villain who everyone will have to band together to get rid of? I hate it.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 19, 2021 15:50:04 GMT -5
I hate him being the villain more than I hate the word mansplaining. ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ is right. Why bring back these cats whose arc should have ended ages ago? Besides, his death was the perfect wrap up. Another reason why Ashfur sucks as the villain is because he only cares about one cat. Anyone who thinks this arc is good must be huge Squirrelflight fans because that's all this arc is about is Squirrelflight and her poor wittle feewings. Oh wait that's every arc. This cat should have died ages ago why is she even still around? Why do we need an arc centered around her? About Ashfur being a realistic villain...all the villains HAVE had been realistic watch the news or read a History book. Ashfur SUCKS as the villain because his focus is only one cat not all the clans what is even the point of having all these new cats? There isn't any because like ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ said they can't let go of old characters. Ashfur would be okay as a henchman but as a the main villain who everyone will have to band together to get rid of? I hate it. His death was the perfect wrap-up up until we saw him in Starclan, then that was leaving open a huge box of what-ifs. How in the world is this arc entirely focused on Squirrelflight? Seriously, 2/3 of the characters don't even share a perspective with her or really think about her all that much and it seems like in the latest book she's only mattering in the sense of being held hostage by him. And how did AVOS and OOTS focus on Squirrelflight of all people? Darktail ALSO focused on one cat. So did Hawkfrost. And by the end of it, Tigerstar too honestly was very much fixated on just getting even with Firestar. Obsessions with one cat are the RULE for Warriors villains, not an exception. Fixating on one cat is fine so long as you affect all of them anyway, which is exactly what Ashfur is doing by sealing off Starclan and possessing their bodies(and eating their souls besides!)
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 19, 2021 15:54:09 GMT -5
OotS was bad for many reasons (pointless dovewing POV and relationship drama, the tribe book, firestar being included which is the same issue as squirrelflights now in TBC...), the dark forest characters; just one of the many problems. and i swear, if someone in HC or the editing team just said NO to vicky about ashfur's fate, NONE of this would be a problem...but no, fans cant let it go so they had to bring ashfur back JUST for this mistake by vicky..it's all convoluted and dumb. people need to let things go because now the series if polluted with old characters and the new protags have nothing. it's BECAUSE of the imposters identity that the protags are now rendered useless bc now people will only want squirrelflight to end this conflict...do u not see the problem? power of three and oots already had this problem (squirrelflight and ashfur stole power of three from jay, holly, and lion with the fire scene and reveal plot; oots was stolen by firestar being the special forth cat, and now squirrelflight and ashfur ONCE AGAIN stealing spotlight in TBC by ashfur even being involved as the big bad at all). and it only snowballed from there. AVOS was at least a bit better bc darktail was a new face despite his connection to someone old. If you ask me, the 3 protagonist are being given more than enough spotlight and major roles to play thanks to Ashfur being the imposter. He has established a very strong connection with Shadowsight and Bristlefrost, and his actions towards the Clans and Bramblestar are giving Rootspring a lot of spotlight, a big role, and characterization. I am not sure why you think these three are being shoved aside. Just because Squirrelflight is getting spotlight, the three protagonists aren’t being denied any spotlight. lots of people thought of bristle as a camera for squirrelflight. especially in DW, rootspring and bristlefrost mention squirrelflight a lot and wonder what she's feeling or thinking, etc. they should have just given squirrel another POV instead of wasting the new protag's time with thinking about her. but thats the thing, squirrel shouldnt get another POV bc she overstayed her welcome in this series and doesnt need anymore spotlight than she already got. idk why everyones so obsessed with squirrelflight. she got her original protag arc, was overinvolved in Po3 and had drama in Oots, BrS, and had a whole SE to herself, etc. what else could they possibly want to squeeze from this overused and overrated character? is NO ONE capable of moving on past her in this fandom and writing team? it's a major problem to me. just like how firestar being the forth was convoluted and unnecessary, ashfur and squirrelflight getting focus again years later is also convoluted and uncessary.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 19, 2021 15:57:56 GMT -5
I hate him being the villain more than I hate the word mansplaining. ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ is right. Why bring back these cats whose arc should have ended ages ago? Besides, his death was the perfect wrap up. Another reason why Ashfur sucks as the villain is because he only cares about one cat. Anyone who thinks this arc is good must be huge Squirrelflight fans because that's all this arc is about is Squirrelflight and her poor wittle feewings. Oh wait that's every arc. This cat should have died ages ago why is she even still around? Why do we need an arc centered around her? About Ashfur being a realistic villain...all the villains HAVE had been realistic watch the news or read a History book. Ashfur SUCKS as the villain because his focus is only one cat not all the clans what is even the point of having all these new cats? There isn't any because like ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ said they can't let go of old characters. Ashfur would be okay as a henchman but as a the main villain who everyone will have to band together to get rid of? I hate it. His death was the perfect wrap-up up until we saw him in Starclan, then that was leaving open a huge box of what-ifs. How in the world is this arc entirely focused on Squirrelflight? Seriously, 2/3 of the characters don't even share a perspective with her or really think about her all that much and it seems like in the latest book she's only mattering in the sense of being held hostage by him. And how did AVOS and OOTS focus on Squirrelflight of all people? Darktail ALSO focused on one cat. So did Hawkfrost. And by the end of it, Tigerstar too honestly was very much fixated on just getting even with Firestar. Obsessions with one cat are the RULE for Warriors villains, not an exception. Fixating on one cat is fine so long as you affect all of them anyway, which is exactly what Ashfur is doing by sealing off Starclan and possessing their bodies(and eating their souls besides!) the main villain is ashfur. ashfur's focus is squirrelflight. everything else is collateral damage or to make squirrelfligth scared/hurt. how is squirrelflight not the main focus just like how the main bad is ashfur, someone who is mostly only connected to squirrelflight (he is connected to lionblaze and jayfeather as well, but it's mainly squirrelflight who has dealt with him in the past, mainly the fire scene. plus hollyleaf, who killed him, is in starclan and currently unable to do anything to help). it's BECAUSE of ashfur being the main villain that the arc becomes about squirrelflight. but this arc shouldnt be about squirreflight AGAIN. it should be about root, bristle, and shadow. not squirrelflight. root, bristle, and shadow are only involved bc of things ashfur did, but what he DID do was solely to destroy things to hurt SQUIRRELFLIGHT first and foremost. like i said everything else ashfur does is collateral damage and not his main objective. root, shadow, and bristle only have a conflict with him bc of things he did for hurting squirrelflight in the end of it all. their tie to ashfur is not strong enough despite them being the main protags and him being thhe main villain. however, just ashfurs pressence alone makes squirrelflight the true focus, not the new protags.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 19, 2021 16:26:04 GMT -5
Just wanted focus on this here, why would it be someone new? Ashfur or not, the impostor was very obviously going to be an old antagonist anyway. It really wouldn't have made any sense if it had been someone we've never even heard of before. "New" doesn't always mean "good". relying on old characters isn't good either. i already said multiple times that this series has a MAJOR problem with relying on old characters and killing off new and young ones. instead of giving younger characters personalities and focus, they prefer to rely on previous and old ones...it's not good. people thinking TBC is good for dragging up an old plot from years ago proves that this series only teaches to rely on the past and not move on to new ideas and new characters. And I agree, the series has a major issue of repeating old storylines. Alot of books do this, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially when Ashfur's story was left so open-ended. You know what his story teaches? That it's okay to try and hurt someone even years after they rejected you. That is much more damaging than repeating old storylines. The so-called "Ashfur Wars" should be an indication of this, because kids are impressionable. I have yet to read a children's series that rewards the villain instead of condemning them like it did with Ashfur. Had Vicky just sent him to the Dark Forest in the first place, this wouldn't even be an issue. And again, it wouldn't have made any sense if the impostor wasn't someone we didn't at least know the name of, especially this far into the series. Even Hawkwing was given an introduction in Ravenpaw's Path before getting his own SE. Also, there are other reasons people like TBC. It's not just because of Ashfur, though it is a major factor for me personally.
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Post by Woofzie on Feb 19, 2021 18:44:34 GMT -5
If you think about it, his motives are rather really realistic. He’s probably the most realistic villain in the series. There are loads of people in real life who react this way or similarly over a break up. just bc he's realistic, doesnt mean he deserves all this special attention. he's not this big bad who is the ONLY ONE To figure out starclan loop holes. his motives arent big enough to be this special and be the ONLY STARCLAN CAT EVER to still hold a grudge when dead. you mean cats like shrewclaw and mudclaw didnt still carry grudges? they had legit reasons meanwhile ashfur's is only his entitlement over a mate...? what about mudclaw's entitlement to leadership and power? how is a mate worth destroying cat heaven over? it doesnt matter how good the imposter is. his identitiy of an OLD CHARACTER who ALREADY had their time in the spotlight bring brought back is NOT good. I mean... Flametail holding a grudge against Jayfeather was a major point in The Last Hope... Yellowfang holding a grudge and a trauma against Brokenstar prevented her from guiding Jayfeather to the Dark Forest. Needletail held a resentment towards Rowanclaw in Darkest Night. Ashfur its not the only one to hold grudges after death, and he shouldn't. Multiple times this series have stated, that not because you die you suddenly become more wise or quiet. Why is Ashfur the only one who discovered the holes between the living world, the Dark Forest and StarClan? Because he's one of the few (and maybe, the only one) who's sick enough to benefit from them. He's one cat who got lucky and got accepted in StarClan when he deserved to be in the Dark Forest. Wouldn't Tigerstar do the same thing if he were in Ashfur's paws? How could Ashfur "move on" (impossible, since he's a sick, obssesive bastard) when he saw from StarClan that Squirrelflight got back her mate, her adoptive children, got a high rank position and 4 kits of her own, and, the cherry ofthe cake: she almost died and was absolved from all the bad things she did in her life and was, temporary, accepted in StarClan? And tbh, lots of children read these books. It was a really awful idea to keep the message that it's ok if you become an obssesive, murderous incel because, hey you get to be in heaven no matter what!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 19:18:57 GMT -5
Nah, I'm not a huge fan of him being the main villain. Just not my cup of tea. But then again I'm not necessarily against everything about Ashfur as the main villian. It's more of how powerful he is in the whole possession plot and stuff that I'm just not a fan of. I probably wouldn't mind as much if he came back in a gang of other questionable StarClan cats and wrecked havoc in the clans- maybe one in each clan. And even if he's the mastermind of the gang at least he wouldn't be working alone. I agree that he's more powerful that most think. I just not a fan of him practically being the most powerful villain in the series' history to the point where the dark forest- which could watch the clans burn to a crisp for all they care- is willing to join the clans in defeating him. I just can't take him seriously enough for that title.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 19, 2021 21:39:22 GMT -5
Hmm...I'm going to simply say that I like him as a major villain. My actual gripe is with how the fandom depicts him...especially because of his motive. The majority usually depict him as some scrawny "nice guy" who isn't worth anything but Hollyleaf fodder in the series. When in reality he committed multiple crimes because of his dangerous realistic obsession and which got worse over time as he watched Squirrelflight's entire life continue on without him. His personally story was left unfinished, ThunderClan still doesn't even know the truth about his death, and him being in StarClan opened a lot of more questioning opprotunities for his case. Ashfur has had plenty of time to fester his hatred there, planning every day for his revenge until he finally got the right opportunity to do it...so he took advantage of it. Any villain in Ahsfur's position would have done the same thing most likely, if they had the power to get what they wanted, they would do it wouldn't they? Not to mention, Warriors has dabbled in the paranormal since the start. Cats communicate with the dead constantly, there's instances where both good and bad spirits visit the living world, or living cats visit the after life. Heck, we literally have reincarnation and shared-body instances for plot points as well. So it's not farfetched that one day there would be a cat from StarClan with malicious intent that would take advantage of their position to cause harm to others. It's even implied that StarClan had entrusted something to Ashfur and he took his chances to cause problems. Firestar was right, they should have never trusted him...but it's interesting to see the outcome. I'm curious to see more, and it's obvious the next book will go into a lot of details on how Ashfur got into his current position. If all of this stuff was laid out at the start, it would have been pretty boring imo.
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