|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Dec 2, 2020 23:59:50 GMT -5
in regards to cats named after injuries (the previous thread about this was necroposted on, so i'll bring it up again on here).
i dont understand why this was ever a thing since the beginning of the series. such as white-eye being changed to one-eye, or sparrowpelt was changed to halftail...and tail wasn't even his original suffix like how -eye was one-eye's original suffix!
i dont get why this was ever done. it feels cruel, and we don't know if the thunderclan elders wanted their names to be changed to remind them of their new injuries or physical states...like how hailstar changed stormkit to crookedkit, or bluestar went nuts and named brightpaw "lostface"...those were instances where they didn't like it or want it, but then you have hopkit being named deadpaw, and he didn't mind it even though the rest of windclan was bothered by it...?
i'm glad they don't do this anymore in the current books.
|
|
|
Post by skyfallthewarriorcat on Dec 3, 2020 0:05:26 GMT -5
They prob. will sometime soon. maybe they were trying it out to see what impact it would have on the readers or maybe to add another challenge for the story or so that the plot would work. If Stormkit wasn't changed to Crookedkit the plot wouldn't be as good and the challenge for him not as hard btw this is a revamp of 2018s topic bout this, right?
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Dec 3, 2020 0:24:08 GMT -5
They prob. will sometime soon. maybe they were trying it out to see what impact it would have on the readers or maybe to add another challenge for the story or so that the plot would work. If Stormkit wasn't changed to Crookedkit the plot wouldn't be as good and the challenge for him not as hard btw this is a revamp of 2018s topic bout this, right? yeah, the thread about this similar topic was super old, so i made a new thread to follow rules. also, it's just weird that they had names like halftail and one-eye from the beginning of the series and then it's revealed those cats had normal warrior names before...so it just brings up questions as to why such a thing, in universe, was ever a thing. they don't do it now a days. firestar changed lostface's name back to bright by naming her brightheart. (i just realized i said half face instead of lostface in the original post oops lol)
|
|
|
Post by skyfallthewarriorcat on Dec 3, 2020 0:38:27 GMT -5
for the elders, maybe they planned to write books about them but maybe cancelled them...
|
|
#ffe4d0
Name Colour
AsiPasasi
oh it's none of them
|
Post by AsiPasasi on Dec 3, 2020 1:11:43 GMT -5
I think most cats saw it as pride for battle scars so they were happy with it.
|
|
|
Post by Brownie on Dec 3, 2020 1:16:41 GMT -5
honestly, the only arguable one is probably for crookedstar
lostface was intended to be cruel, and since most the clan was appalled/surprised, I would think it wouldn't be common.
as for one-eye and halftail, honestly they were part of the original cast and probably weren't meant to be anything more than easily distinguishable and recognizable 'old' names for elders. From a writer's side of things (especially for a series that was meant to flood market and have little substance otherwise like series of its time) those two weren't even 'canon' and more retconned.
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Dec 3, 2020 1:56:47 GMT -5
From an in-universe perspective, couldn't tell ya. It's remarkably inconsistent, and the only thing I can come up with is maybe the names were requested by the cats in question because they were proud of the injury, but it's a really flimsy excuse.
In reality, it makes sense, it's just a classic case of a hole in worldbuilding. A lot of people new to writing fantasy don't realize how certain elements in their stories work together, so in Into the Wild's case, we had several characters named after their looks (Crookedstar, Halftail, Deadfoot, even non-disabled cats like Blackfoot), but we also had a new fantastical naming hierarchy. The authors just didn't realize that the naming hierarchy would have had to apply to cats who already existed. So when they started writing prequels, they had backed themselves into a corner where they HAD to rename the cats to be consistent with the naming hierarchy, but couldn't really come up with a decent in-universe reason for the renaming, so it comes across as flimsy.
|
|
|
Post by Brownie on Dec 3, 2020 2:35:35 GMT -5
From an in-universe perspective, couldn't tell ya. It's remarkably inconsistent, and the only thing I can come up with is maybe the names were requested by the cats in question because they were proud of the injury, but it's a really flimsy excuse. In reality, it makes sense, it's just a classic case of a hole in worldbuilding. A lot of people new to writing fantasy don't realize how certain elements in their stories work together, so in Into the Wild's case, we had several characters named after their looks (Crookedstar, Halftail, Deadfoot, even non-disabled cats like Blackfoot), but we also had a new fantastical naming hierarchy. The authors just didn't realize that the naming hierarchy would have had to apply to cats who already existed. So when they started writing prequels, they had backed themselves into a corner where they HAD to rename the cats to be consistent with the naming hierarchy, but couldn't really come up with a decent in-universe reason for the renaming, so it comes across as flimsy. this. Especially with the naming being new. They were coming up with it on the fly (how many -pelts did we have in thunderclan alone? at least a quarter??). Like I said, the only one that could maybe be argued as they had to have a reason for it was crookedjaw as that was later down the line when the naming conventions were more varied when his SE was released. I haven't read his SE so idk if his was also meant to be malicious (or why? wasn't he a kit when he was injured? you doing that to a KID?).
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Dec 3, 2020 3:25:03 GMT -5
From an in-universe perspective, couldn't tell ya. It's remarkably inconsistent, and the only thing I can come up with is maybe the names were requested by the cats in question because they were proud of the injury, but it's a really flimsy excuse. In reality, it makes sense, it's just a classic case of a hole in worldbuilding. A lot of people new to writing fantasy don't realize how certain elements in their stories work together, so in Into the Wild's case, we had several characters named after their looks (Crookedstar, Halftail, Deadfoot, even non-disabled cats like Blackfoot), but we also had a new fantastical naming hierarchy. The authors just didn't realize that the naming hierarchy would have had to apply to cats who already existed. So when they started writing prequels, they had backed themselves into a corner where they HAD to rename the cats to be consistent with the naming hierarchy, but couldn't really come up with a decent in-universe reason for the renaming, so it comes across as flimsy. this. Especially with the naming being new. They were coming up with it on the fly (how many -pelts did we have in thunderclan alone? at least a quarter??). Like I said, the only one that could maybe be argued as they had to have a reason for it was crookedjaw as that was later down the line when the naming conventions were more varied when his SE was released. I haven't read his SE so idk if his was also meant to be malicious (or why? wasn't he a kit when he was injured? you doing that to a KID?). Crookedkit was definitely meant to be a malicious name, but that actually makes him somewhat unique. Crookedkit and Lostface are the only two examples in the series of an openly malicious renaming. The other ones (One-eye, Halftail, Deadfoot) don't have any explanation given for theirs whatsoever. Brokentail's is given explanation though. Which makes his unique as well.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Dec 3, 2020 7:56:53 GMT -5
Same reason one Medieval knight chose to go by "of the Iron Hand" after getting his hand blasted off with a cannon and replacing it with a prosthetic. A lot of warrior cultures make a big deal out of cool names like that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen
|
|
|
Post by highprince on Dec 3, 2020 8:09:41 GMT -5
I’m guessing it’s a difference between battle scars and...not battle scars. ThunderClan has always come across as the clan most into honor and all that jazz, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they had cats that were proud of gaining injuries in a fight.
Lostface, Crookedkit, and Deadpaw were all named for things out of their control, or in Lostface’s case, a battle that wasn’t “honorable.”
|
|
|
Post by skyfallthewarriorcat on Dec 3, 2020 10:52:46 GMT -5
Lostface was literally harassed by Bluestar because she USED Lostface to fight with them. If this was in real life, Bluestar would just pick up Lostface and chuck her at the weirded out StarClan humans
|
|
|
Post by Brindlefern on Dec 3, 2020 11:22:02 GMT -5
One-Eye and Half-Tail didn't care, they probably still don't even dead, One-Eye just saw her still getting food as the only thing that mattered iirc. While Deadfoot states that while his paw doesn't work the rest of him is very much alive, showing that it doesn't matter to him.
It's Brightheart's former name Lostface and crookedstar's names that are clearly maliciously cruel. But the three other examples literally did not mind at all.
|
|
|
Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Dec 3, 2020 14:29:16 GMT -5
I think tose cats were named after what they sacrificed fighting for their Clan, or something that represented them. For example, Halftail lost half his tail with a badger, and One-eye (As far as we know) never saw her partial blindness as a burden, and it may have been something similar to Deadfoot's case.
Homever, cases like Lostface and Crookedstar are different. Bluestar didin't name her after something she could be proud of, or some battle scar, she named her out of spite and cruelty, after an experience that traumatised them. Crookedkit's name was the same case, as Rainflower suggested it out of spite. Even some cats in RiverClan expressed concern with Crookedkit's new name.
I've always liked the headcanon that Firestar ended the tradition just before the Clans discovered they had to leave the forest, and from now on no cat would be named after their injuries. In the series, it's even foreshadowed that cats like Berrynose and Jayfeather were worried their disabilites would be used against them in the future.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 15:22:32 GMT -5
Im glad firestar changed lost face’s name to brightheart<3
|
|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Dec 3, 2020 20:36:17 GMT -5
I guess it's up to the cats on what they want to be called. If it's their own choice, then I don't have a problem with it. But with cases like Brightheart's and Crookedstar's, it's flat-out cruel and a slap in the face to them.
|
|
|
Post by ʙʀᴀᴄᴋᴇɴꜱᴜɴ ♞ on Apr 11, 2021 18:02:58 GMT -5
I know that it's a personal choice by many cats to change their name, and so that doesn't bother me.
However, I agree with you on the fact that it's disrespectful and immoral for the Leaders themselves to change names without any consent.
|
|
|
Post by Wolfyy- on Apr 11, 2021 19:29:52 GMT -5
Do you guys think that Brightheart forgave Bluestar for naming her Lostface?
|
|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Apr 11, 2021 19:30:37 GMT -5
No necroposting please.
|
|