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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Nov 10, 2020 17:19:10 GMT -5
Do you think it is fair that outsiders keep their name after joining a Clan? Do you find it disrespectful? Does it truly matter? Share what you think below.
Examples: Daisy, Purdy, Millie, Brook.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 17:26:33 GMT -5
They shouldn't be forced to change their name if they don't want to
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Post by Fernsong on Nov 10, 2020 17:26:33 GMT -5
I personally think no. Firestar didn't keep Rusty as his name because it was seen as a part of his kittypet past, and you can't live with a paw in each world. I guess you could argue that it was different for Rusty, since it was the first series, but I still don't get how exactly it doesn't apply later on.
If the cats do want to live with their original name, though, they could do the SkyClan take of just adding a suffix to the original name, kind of like the daylight warriors.
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Post by Sundance on Nov 10, 2020 17:28:17 GMT -5
Honestly, for me it depends on how often it occurs in the series, and, to an extent, their name. :-P If every other outsider joining the Clans kept their name of "Cupcake" or "Egg"? I would have a problem with it (both as a reader and a hypothetical Clan cat) but so long as it happens very rarely, I don't mind it.
With Daisy and Brook in particular, they essentially have one half of a warriors name, so I don't find it disrespectful or out of place whatsoever.
And Purdy ... Purdy's name is too good to lose.
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Post by soaringwyvern on Nov 10, 2020 18:11:28 GMT -5
Keep in mind, Firestar was only 6 moons old when he was taken into the Clan. Young and all too eager to live this different life, he only felt slight attachment to the name 'Rusty'. All of the above examples were older when they joined, and had differing reasons for keeping their names. They'd had time and experience with that name as their identity, and were less willing to let that go. What works for some shouldn't be the standard of all, even if the Clans have the opposite mentality.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Nov 10, 2020 18:14:30 GMT -5
I think there's a difference between cats who are expected to be temporary stays or who are not traditional warriors, and cats who are traditional warriors.
Example: Brook was a temporary stay and never fully integrated into ThunderClan. Daisy is a non-traditional warrior. Purdy is someone the Clan takes care of but didn't go through the same ceremonial process as a typical Clan elder. Therefore it makes sense they would all keep their name because naming is a ceremonial process in the Clans.
Cats like Millie I do have a problem with, but with Millie specifically I'll look the other way, because as someone else pointed out, it's such a rare occurrence that I can let one slide. I think ShadowClan has the right idea for how to handle this: if an outsider wants to be a traditional warrior, they should go through all the same traditions a warrior goes through. This includes an apprenticeship and a renaming at their Warrior ceremony. Once in a blue moon a cat can keep their name if they really want to, but this should be rare.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 18:14:31 GMT -5
i think younger cats should have the name change, but older cats haved lived with those names their whole lives, and they could have special meaning to them. i dont think older cats should be for ed to give up their names to join a clan if they dont want to.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 18:45:23 GMT -5
I think that if a cat wants to keep their name, then they should be allowed to, and if they want to take a warrior name, they should be allowed to do that as well. However, if their names are River, Wind, Sky, Shadow, or Thunder, they would have to come to a compromise.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Nov 10, 2020 18:48:25 GMT -5
I don't see a problem with cats keeping their names.
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Post by Brindlefern on Nov 10, 2020 19:16:17 GMT -5
I really don't see a problem with it like everyone else does, a cat shouldn't be forced to change their name and shuck our an identity they likely lived with for such a long time. Firestar can't even be used as an example here as he was barely 6 moons when he joined the clans and was actively wanting to get out of Kittypet life. The examples like Brook, Daisy, Millie, have lived as outsiders far far longer than Firestar ever has, they actually grew up in that life, lived it for a long time if not years. To expect them to be like Firestar and just shuck their names out so easily is putting an expectation that if one cat is okay with doing it all the other cats would be.
(Plus Brook living in the clans was very temporary anyways, so I would say that had she even agreed to change her name it'd be an absolute reverse to Firestar where she wouldn't even get to keep that name for long before going back to her old life and changing it back to her Tribe name)
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Nov 10, 2020 21:05:25 GMT -5
I think that if an outsider wants to keep their name, they should. Getting rid of it, especially for an older cat, could probably feel like getting rid of their entire identity.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Nov 10, 2020 22:33:11 GMT -5
Nobody should have to give up something if it is that important to them.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Nov 11, 2020 23:18:57 GMT -5
Nobody should have to give up something if it is that important to them. Exactly
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Post by chickenfeather on Nov 12, 2020 0:36:39 GMT -5
I think they should keep their names if they want I mean we got A cat named Purdy out of not changing
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Post by taychrexis on Nov 12, 2020 11:16:18 GMT -5
I think that if a cat wants to keep their name, then they should be allowed to, and if they want to take a warrior name, they should be allowed to do that as well. However, if their names are River, Wind, Sky, Shadow, or Thunder, they would have to come to a compromise. Ehem SHADOWsightThe Erin's have clearly disregarded that rule.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 12, 2020 11:23:39 GMT -5
I'm perfectly fine with it. What a cat is called shouldn't matter so long as they're loyal to their Clan.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 11:30:44 GMT -5
You change your name if you want to. If you’re fine with it then you keep it, it’s that simple
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 12, 2020 11:36:55 GMT -5
I think that if a cat wants to keep their name, then they should be allowed to, and if they want to take a warrior name, they should be allowed to do that as well. However, if their names are River, Wind, Sky, Shadow, or Thunder, they would have to come to a compromise. Ehem SHADOWsightThe Erin's have clearly disregarded that rule. They disregarded that rule long ago with Windflight, though at least he was ThunderClan. Regardless, it doesn't really seem to be something the cats actually care about.
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Post by Fireleap on Nov 12, 2020 17:32:42 GMT -5
Whatever happened to "You can't live with a paw in each world"? They should've changed their names.
Edit: Can y'all stop quoting me, I didn't come here to debate and I don't want this thread to get locked.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 12, 2020 17:50:44 GMT -5
Whatever happened to "You can't live with a paw in each world"? They should've changed their names. The context behind the quote should be obvious. Cats like Daisy and Millie and even Boulder served their respective Clans for seasons upon seasons. Why should something as a name be needed to prove their loyalty when their actions speak for themselves? Them keeping their names doesn't mean they have "a paw in each world," all it really says is that they're proud enough about their past to keep a part of it with them.
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Post by Fireleap on Nov 12, 2020 18:47:23 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 Still doesn't change my opinion but okay.
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Post by Brindlefern on Nov 12, 2020 19:01:06 GMT -5
Whatever happened to "You can't live with a paw in each world"? They should've changed their names. Keeping something as trivial in hindsight as a name is not at all meaning that they want to be like some half-outsider. It's not as if they go back and forth between being a Warrior and not like the situational Daylight Warriors. Millie kept her name and never went back to kittypet life. Daisy never went back to being a loner after Sunset, Purdy the same case. Their names don't mean they have a duel life, a name -in the cats case that is- doesn't tell anything but the history of those that own it really. That'd be like asking a person to shuck a name they had from their homeland for years for a more "American" sounding name or something to get used to just because they don't live where they came from anymore and live in America now. It's not exactly a good practice (and is pretty wrong).
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Post by Skypaw13 on Nov 12, 2020 19:21:56 GMT -5
Whatever happened to "You can't live with a paw in each world"? They should've changed their names. That'd be like asking a person to shuck a name they had from their homeland for years for a more "American" sounding name or something to get used to just because they don't live where they came from anymore and live in America now. It's not exactly a good practice (and is pretty wrong). I feel like those situations aren't exactly comparable. Here in America we don't have strong cultural values around naming. You might get a few xenophobes who tell you they can't pronounce your name, but for the most part no one really cares, so we see telling someone they have to change their name as wrong. The Clans aren't that easygoing about it. Clanborn cats have strong cultural attachments to their names, and ceremonial renaming is a HUGE part of how the Clans work. It would be more comparable to someone joining a religion and then not engaging in important ceremonies ( sorry, I'm not educated enough on any religions to come up with a hard example). It's not technically a big deal, but other people within the religion would feel understandably put off by it. (And to clarify, I don't totally agree with Fireleap. I just think this specific analogy you used has flaws)
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Post by Brindlefern on Nov 12, 2020 19:23:16 GMT -5
(And to clarify, I don't totally agree with Fireleap. I just think this specific analogy you used has flaws) Yeah I wasn't sure about using it when I wrote it out either. But tbh, I don't know what other examples I could use to try and compare a case like this. ^^'
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Nov 12, 2020 22:39:34 GMT -5
That'd be like asking a person to shuck a name they had from their homeland for years for a more "American" sounding name or something to get used to just because they don't live where they came from anymore and live in America now. It's not exactly a good practice (and is pretty wrong). I feel like those situations aren't exactly comparable. Here in America we don't have strong cultural values around naming. You might get a few xenophobes who tell you they can't pronounce your name, but for the most part no one really cares, so we see telling someone they have to change their name as wrong. The Clans aren't that easygoing about it. Clanborn cats have strong cultural attachments to their names, and ceremonial renaming is a HUGE part of how the Clans work. It would be more comparable to someone joining a religion and then not engaging in important ceremonies ( sorry, I'm not educated enough on any religions to come up with a hard example). It's not technically a big deal, but other people within the religion would feel understandably put off by it. (And to clarify, I don't totally agree with Fireleap. I just think this specific analogy you used has flaws) I agree that names in warriors are more culturally significant than names in the real world, but I don't think "not engaging in important religious ceremonies" is a good analogy either. Especially since they do have a warrior's ceremony, attend other apprentice/warrior ceremonies, and contribute to the clan like any other member. I think it would be more akin to not adhering to a singular tradition in a culture/religion, but following the rest of the culture/religion.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Nov 13, 2020 6:15:47 GMT -5
So many interesting point of views in the situation!
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Post by morute on Jul 3, 2024 22:43:08 GMT -5
i think its a choice for the cat, like if they are an older cat and feel the name has some sort of attachment to it, then they can keep the name. if they are a younger cat, then they probably wont need to keep it, although they still can if they wish to. an older cat can still keep it, but if they are something like the leader, then PLEASE, it would be smarter to add the star suffix at the end to not cause confusion in the clan and to make it easier for everyone else. (im talking about you, wcue players. specifically you, snail and bethany.)
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