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Post by highprince on Oct 18, 2020 18:49:38 GMT -5
So I’ve definitely seen some talk about how many half-clan relationships there are in the series and all the drama, which I think is interesting. Looking through the arcs, disregarding DotC for obvious reasons, there have only been 2 PoV characters in genuine half-clan relationships....out of 18 total PoVs.
This is only counting Leafpool and Dovewing, as they’re the only ones with actual fruit. Heathertail and Lionblaze, Alderheart and Needletail, and Rootspring and Bristlefrost aren’t being counted here since none have progressed beyond crushes.
As for side characters, we have Graystripe/Silversteam and Bluestar/Oakheart - and I think those two are the only important ones? I could very well be missing some. Feathertail and Crowfeather are also not counted due to the crush thing.
I just thought it was interesting that I’ve seen many people say that forbidden relationships are milked as a source of drama, or that there have been too many throughout the series, when only 1/6 of the PoV characters have had genuine forbidden relationships. I’m guessing they seem so prevalent because of how much drama those two managed to lead to.
What are your opinions on half-clan relationships?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 19:09:37 GMT -5
There's only two? 0_o It seemed to me like there was a lot more. I don't really like half-clan relationships, they seem to cause so much un-needed drama, plus it goes against the code. I also find it a bit annoying, how cats who broke this code get high ranking positions, like Bluestar and Crowfeather. I understand that someone can't help who they fall in love with, but I think the safety of the clan should come first, and if someone is sneaking around with a cat from another clan, that could potentially start a battle, didn't one almost start in Omen of the Stars, because they kept smelling Tigerheart's scent on ThunderClan territory? Another thing that's kind of annoying with half-clan relationships, especially regarding ThunderClan, is that they had a few cats who weren't related to much of anyone, Dovewing could have been perfect with Mousewhisker or Stormcloud, but no, she had to go and be in a forbidden relationship. I love Dove x Tiger, I think they're great together, but yeah.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 18, 2020 19:13:29 GMT -5
It doesn't really matter if it's just a crush or not. A relationship is a relationship. The ones that are however aren't that bad, if not a bit unnecessary. We still don't know about Rootspring and Bristlefrost, but Lionblaze and Alderheart could've just viewed their crushes in a platonic light and nothing would've changed.
Leafpool's and Dovewing's however were dragged out for a long time (especially Dovewing's). Meanwhile, Bluestar's and Yellowfang's happened in the past anyway, and Graystripe—though not a PoV character—still had still own relationship play a big part in the plot while also turning him into a jerk.
It's less that these cats are getting into forbidden relationships at all and more due to lack of creativity and poor execution.
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Post by Fernshiine on Oct 18, 2020 19:47:56 GMT -5
Let me jot down everything from my memory and correct me if I am wrong or missing cats.
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs during said time: - Leafpool - Bluestar - Dovewing -Lionpaw (it was more courting, like what Ashfur and Squirrelflight did, but I still count it) - Mapleshade
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs that are not during said time: - Tigerstar (hypocrite, though it doesn't touch on it in the book) - Graystripe - Crowfeather -Feathertail (I have decided manga counts even though it doesn't touch on it at all) - Sasha (I counted her because she took part in one with a Clan cat)
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that don't have any POV at all:
-Heatherpaw - Silverstream - Reedfeather - Fallowtail - Appledusk - Hal (Even though he's a kittypet I'm counting it since he took part in one with a Clan cat) -Smoke - Onestar - Oakheart (HE SHOULD HAVE A POV) -Whoever Windflight's parents were lol
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Oct 18, 2020 19:48:37 GMT -5
I love GraySilver and LeafCrow, but I think the Erins often handle them wrong.
Dovewing should have moved to ShC in OotS or even in her novella - avoiding Tigerheart's Shadow BS. LeafCrow would have been more fulfilling to me if they'd actually stayed together, away from the clans, perhaps only coming back once they were told of the prophecy
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Oct 18, 2020 19:50:51 GMT -5
Let me jot down everything from my memory and correct me if I am wrong or missing cats.
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs during said time: - Leafpool - Bluestar - Dovewing -Lionpaw (it was more courting, like what Ashfur and Squirrelflight did, but I still count it) - Mapleshade
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs that are not during said time: - Tigerstar (hypocrite, though it doesn't touch on it in the book) - Graystripe - Crowfeather -Feathertail (I have decided manga counts even though it doesn't touch on it at all) - Sasha (I counted her because she took part in one with a Clan cat)
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that don't have any POV at all:
-Heatherpaw - Silverstream - Reedfeather - Fallowtail - Appledusk - Hal (Even though he's a kittypet I'm counting it since he took part in one with a Clan cat) -Smoke - Onestar - Oakheart (HE SHOULD HAVE A POV) -Whoever Windflight's parents were lol Eaglestorm and Squirrelwhisker are Windflight's parents Also, Raggedstar and Yellowfang if we look at forbidden in general
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 18, 2020 20:08:49 GMT -5
I like forbidden relationships. The only complaint I have about them, however, is that forbidden relationships have a habit of being a.) dragged out too long. b.) popping up everywhere. and c). often a cliche.
I'd like to see more forbidden relationships that have some meaning in them. That's all.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 18, 2020 20:13:37 GMT -5
I think we're all sick of them because DovexTiger was dragged on for so long.
but the best one was beechfurxgorsetail
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Post by Fernshiine on Oct 18, 2020 20:19:39 GMT -5
Let me jot down everything from my memory and correct me if I am wrong or missing cats.
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs during said time: - Leafpool - Bluestar - Dovewing -Lionpaw (it was more courting, like what Ashfur and Squirrelflight did, but I still count it) - Mapleshade
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs that are not during said time: - Tigerstar (hypocrite, though it doesn't touch on it in the book) - Graystripe - Crowfeather -Feathertail (I have decided manga counts even though it doesn't touch on it at all) - Sasha (I counted her because she took part in one with a Clan cat)
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that don't have any POV at all:
-Heatherpaw - Silverstream - Reedfeather - Fallowtail - Appledusk - Hal (Even though he's a kittypet I'm counting it since he took part in one with a Clan cat) -Smoke - Onestar - Oakheart (HE SHOULD HAVE A POV) -Whoever Windflight's parents were lol Eaglestorm and Squirrelwhisker are Windflight's parents Also, Raggedstar and Yellowfang if we look at forbidden in general Oh boy, yeah I decided not to add just forbidden medicine cat ones lol.
Also I don't like the Alderheart and Velvet thing. I count that but...ugh. Was pointless to add.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 21:39:43 GMT -5
Did Beechfur and Gorsetail have on-page moments??
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 18, 2020 21:45:34 GMT -5
Did Beechfur and Gorsetail have on-page moments?? They didn't. In fact, the only reason we even know about their relationship at all is because fans were speculating on Kate's blog and she agreed it was Beechfur. This was in 2015, btw, so long after Sedgewhisker and her sisters were born.
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Post by Fernshiine on Oct 18, 2020 22:33:29 GMT -5
Did Beechfur and Gorsetail have on-page moments?? They didn't. In fact, the only reason we even know about their relationship at all is because fans were speculating on Kate's blog and she agreed it was Beechfur. This was in 2015, btw, so long after Sedgewhisker and her sisters were born. I was thinking about it and I decided I don't think it is inherently bad that not all half-Clan relations are really given a POV. It makes sense, actually, and makes half-Clan relationships seem less like something to make the plot more interesting and more just something that happens to more cats than the Clans would like. In other words it makes forbidden love more realistic.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Oct 18, 2020 23:22:43 GMT -5
There aren't many forbidden romances in total, but when one does crop up the drama of it tends to last for more than just a single arc. Each arc (minus DOTC) has at least one forbidden romance (or contains the repercussions of a forbidden romance) with a major character, which makes them feel very prevalent even if they aren't, in actuality, a common occurrence.
I don't like forbidden romances because the drama behind it often is attributed to the secrecy and illegality of the relationship and I personally don't find fictional relationships with mostly externally driven conflicts to be that interesting. I would rather the conflicts be more character-driven like when Sandstorm and Firestar had a disagreement about Firestar disobeying Bluestar. I prefer "we want to be together but sometimes we need to compromise over our temperaments and ideals" over "we want to be together but it's illegal and we need to keep the relationship secret". In the case of main series romances specifically, LeafXCrow bothered me because the deal with their kits could have easily been solved if Leafpool just told the truth to begin with and DoveXTiger bothered me because their will-they-won't-they dragged on tremendously.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Oct 19, 2020 0:59:34 GMT -5
I dislike them, and I think I've mentioned this before, but I'm not sure... If too many cats are having half-Clan relationships, different traits will pop up in different Clans. Like in Mapleshade's Vengeance when her kits were better built for swimming than pouncing. I also think they cause much-unneeded drama. But if I see a really nicely written one, I don't think I'd mind.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Oct 19, 2020 4:22:21 GMT -5
There aren't many forbidden romances in total, but when one does crop up the drama of it tends to last for more than just a single arc. Each arc (minus DOTC) has at least one forbidden romance (or contains the repercussions of a forbidden romance) with a major character, which makes them feel very prevalent even if they aren't, in actuality, a common occurrence. I don't like forbidden romances because the drama behind it often is attributed to the secrecy and illegality of the relationship and I personally don't find fictional relationships with mostly externally driven conflicts to be that interesting. I would rather the conflicts be more character-driven like when Sandstorm and Firestar had a disagreement about Firestar disobeying Bluestar. I prefer "we want to be together but sometimes we need to compromise over our temperaments and ideals" over "we want to be together but it's illegal and we need to keep the relationship secret". In the case of main series romances specifically, LeafXCrow bothered me because the deal with their kits could have easily been solved if Leafpool just told the truth to begin with and DoveXTiger bothered me because their will-they-won't-they dragged on tremendously.I only find Leafpool’s situation maddening because of the Starclan involvement. Spottedleaf tells her to follow her heart. She does. Then she gets shamed for it by others and the situation gets more convoluted
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 19, 2020 19:15:20 GMT -5
Also, whichever relationship produced Windflight was the best one.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2020 10:08:22 GMT -5
Also, whichever relationship produced Windflight was the best one. it also produced thistleclaw, tho
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Post by suicunetobigaara on Oct 20, 2020 11:05:52 GMT -5
Also, whichever relationship produced Windflight was the best one. it also produced thistleclaw, tho Yeah, but it also produced Whitestorm <3
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 20, 2020 11:07:56 GMT -5
Also, whichever relationship produced Windflight was the best one. it also produced thistleclaw, tho Oof. That's true.
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Post by sar8 on Oct 20, 2020 11:16:47 GMT -5
Let me jot down everything from my memory and correct me if I am wrong or missing cats.
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs during said time: - Leafpool - Bluestar - Dovewing -Lionpaw (it was more courting, like what Ashfur and Squirrelflight did, but I still count it) - Mapleshade
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that have POVs that are not during said time: - Tigerstar (hypocrite, though it doesn't touch on it in the book) - Graystripe - Crowfeather -Feathertail (I have decided manga counts even though it doesn't touch on it at all) - Sasha (I counted her because she took part in one with a Clan cat)
Cats with half-Clan forbidden relationships that don't have any POV at all:
-Heatherpaw - Silverstream - Reedfeather - Fallowtail - Appledusk - Hal (Even though he's a kittypet I'm counting it since he took part in one with a Clan cat) -Smoke - Onestar - Oakheart (HE SHOULD HAVE A POV) -Whoever Windflight's parents were lol Did Tigerstar really have half-Clan relationships? Bramblestar and Tawnypelt had at the very least been conceived before he left ThunderClan, and might have even been born by then. I’ve never understood why Bramblestar is sometimes called half-Clan. Did his relationship with a kittypet really create half-Clans, either? I think of half-Clans as having one parent from 2 Clans-not one Clan parent and one kittypet parent.
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Bisexual
Selena
Mint Oreos are superior
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Post by Selena on Oct 20, 2020 13:07:21 GMT -5
It’s understandable they did it though... there’s no way they wouldn’t fall in love with people from neighbouring clans...
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Post by Brindlefern on Oct 20, 2020 18:02:56 GMT -5
Did Tigerstar really have half-Clan relationships? Bramblestar and Tawnypelt had at the very least been conceived before he left ThunderClan, and might have even been born by then. I’ve never understood why Bramblestar is sometimes called half-Clan. Did his relationship with a kittypet really create half-Clans, either? I think of half-Clans as having one parent from 2 Clans-not one Clan parent and one kittypet parent. TigerSasha counts as Half-clan. Moth and Hawk are half-rogue/half-Thunderclan blood. A Half-clan cat doesn't have to have the other half be another clan. It just needs to not be pure blood of that clan. Leafpool and Squirrelflight's father is still at the end of the day full kittypet blood for instance, so they're half-kittypet half-Thunderclan blood, and thus halfclan (Otherwise Squirrelflight wouldn't get so angry about retorts against kittypet blood in the books). Similarly, Toadstep and Rosepetal are half Thunder half loner and thus are halfclan. Berrynose being pure loner blood and Poppyfrost being pure Thunder makes their kits Cherryfall and Molewhisker half-thunder half-rogue too. (And no, Berrynose may live in Thunderclan long by that point but he still like Firestar at the end of the day outside blood so it counts) Onestar and Smoke makes Darktail half-Windclan half-kittypet for another example. Kittypet blood counts in the dilution, as does Rogue and Loner blood. If it's blood from outside that clan that the clan cat is mating with, it's half- that blood in any kits made from it. To assume "Halfclan" only means "Blood mixing only between two clans" is really narrowing the definition of what it means to be half-clan blood. Cats have made a fuss about kittypet blood in Thunderclan, more than likely because it dilutes Thunderclan blood, this wouldn't be a problem if the definition of "Halfclan" was only narrowed down to "Must have blood from two separate clans." Otherwise kits made from a kittypet or rogue and another clan cat would be pure TC blood or pure ShC blood and so on... but that's the thing, you know that's not how bloodlines work.
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