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Post by The One and Only Moongaze on Sept 25, 2020 8:12:41 GMT -5
So I have never read Spottedleaf's heart but I have read that a lot of people are saying that it is horrible and something about Thistleclaw.
Can anybody tell me what happened in that book?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 8:17:49 GMT -5
Thistleclaw was grooming Spottedpaw to be his mate/join the DF.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
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All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 25, 2020 8:17:50 GMT -5
You can check the wiki's page on it if you want the full details, but basically, it featured Thistleclaw grooming Spottedpaw in order to get her to join the Dark Forest. Everything about it was just really unsettling.
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Post by The One and Only Moongaze on Sept 25, 2020 8:29:47 GMT -5
You can check the wiki's page on it if you want the full details, but basically, it featured Thistleclaw grooming Spottedpaw in order to get her to join the Dark Forest. Everything about it was just really unsettling. !!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 10:31:45 GMT -5
what others said above. the issue i take is that thistleclaws primary flaw is portrayed as him training in the dark forest, and not that he was, yknow, grooming spottedpaw.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 25, 2020 12:19:28 GMT -5
Yet another thing that would be fine (dark, but acceptable to write about) in adult literature where everyone can grasp the nuance, but is TERRIBLE in a children's book.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Sept 25, 2020 12:31:34 GMT -5
Features grooming
messes up the timeline
makes spottedpaw another forced medicine cat
all in all 0/10 not canon
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Sept 25, 2020 15:41:13 GMT -5
it's bad what else can i say
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 25, 2020 16:37:31 GMT -5
completely unncessary
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Sept 25, 2020 18:22:47 GMT -5
Grooming - which was COMPLETELY inappropriate
Further butchered Spottedleaf's character
Butchered Thistleclaw - He's supposed to be violent, yes, but that's his negative character trait. Not...going after kits. He's also supposed to be loyal to Snowfur.
It's just a mess. It's a terrible book people wrote to make Thistleclaw seem worse because she didn't like him. And was unnecessary in a book series made for children
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Sept 25, 2020 19:48:03 GMT -5
Wasn't needed, at all.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 25, 2020 21:14:04 GMT -5
Grooming - which was COMPLETELY inappropriate Further butchered Spottedleaf's character Butchered Thistleclaw - He's supposed to be violent, yes, but that's his negative character trait. Not...going after kits. He's also supposed to be loyal to Snowfur. It's just a mess. It's a terrible book people wrote to make Thistleclaw seem worse because she didn't like him. And was unnecessary in a book series made for children also thistleclaw being mentored by the DF was just unnecessary? thistleclaw was never evil, he just put way too much value in strength and fighting. there was no need to make him secretly training with mapleshade the whole time. it also retcons the established lore. the dark forest was an unnavigable, isolate prison for its occupants as eternal punishment. the prologue of sunset has darkstripe meeting tigerstar by chance and it's painted as the first time he's met another spirit since he died. the first incidents of break through are isolated-- mapleshade to crookedstar, and tigerstar to his sons. over po3 and oots that gradually expands to more cats (hawkfrost to lionpaw, jayfeather, and later ivypool) to signify the walls gradually breaking down. by having mapleshade training a bunch of random cats all the way back in BP/CP timeline suggests these walls never existed and the DF group project was around for awhile.
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Post by StormPlayz on Sept 25, 2020 21:51:13 GMT -5
I don't dislike it as much as most people, but some of the themes just didn't make any sense or were just completely unnecessary.
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Post by highprince on Sept 25, 2020 22:32:26 GMT -5
I don't think incorporating some heavier themes in a kid's book is necessarily bad - after all, teaching kids that an adult being overly friendly isn't exactly a good thing can help make them safer - but the way it was handled was just really bad.
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Post by McArmadillo on Sept 26, 2020 0:09:45 GMT -5
Yknow, everybody always states there was grooming in the book but that never added up to me because the first time he undeniably shows interest in her would be in the confession during chapter 4, and by that point we know she's in love with him from the way she acted in the scene at the end of chapter 3 and it doesn't seem like there was any deception involved at all. He didn't trick her, he didn't lie to her at all even when it probably would've been beneficial (i.e. arguing about Tigerpaw knocking Tiny around) and it always seems like people take incredibly reasonable things and then twist them into manipulation. Joking about how Starclan is telling them to be together? Forget the mischievous gleam in his eye, he's clearly using their religion against her! Innocently giving her, and then his son, some feathers after coincidentally bumping into her in the middle of the clearing? There's a whole slew of reasons as to why that's fair, but people always phrase that as some creeper in a white van cruising by the nursery and giving out candy. Telling her to meet him alone later that night without telling her where they're going? Forget that from a narrative sense it'd make zero sense for him to do anything else, that's how children get KIDNAPPED! Even though she's an apprentice and as a result not a child. The grooming narrative has never made any sense to me yet whenever this book comes up it's almost always the first thing I hear, yet it's never seemed valid.
"Grooming her for the Dark Forest" is an even odder claim considering that from Tigerclaw's Fury we know that Thistleclaw never introduced him to Mapleshade, and wouldn't he want Tigerpaw to join him in the DF rather than Spottedpaw? Tigerpaw, the "keenest apprentice he'd ever seen"? Plus when Spottedpaw heavily expresses her displeasure with the Dark Forest Thistleclaw doesn't try at all to convince her to go back, only justifying his personal reasons to her and wanting her understanding about something he's clearly passionate about; on top of that, if he wanted her to train with him why wouldn't he introduce her that way to Mapleshade? It seems like he wanted her to be there and watch him and maybe even take an interest, but saying he wanted her there specifically to join the DF doesn't really seem right.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 26, 2020 0:41:38 GMT -5
McArmadillo In all seriousness, you might want to say "apprentices aren't children" at the beginning of your post rather than the end, because that's a REALLY IMPORTANT THING to start out with when talking about this subject, because not everyone agrees on that. And the people who DO consider apprentices children (like myself-- I see them ages 10-18 personally) are going to read your post and be extremely creeped out and uncomfortable that you're defending predatory behavior (because again, we're operating under the "apprentices ARE children" assumption until you clarify otherwise). So yeah, might want to clarify at the beginning.
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