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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 12:29:28 GMT -5
What the is wrong with the writers? I thought they wanted Bramblestar and Squirrelflight to have this big epic romance, that shows that even though their fathers were enemies, their love will prevail over all, or something lame like that? Yet, they have them CONSTANTLY fighting, and the only time they show any love towards each other, is when Squirrelflight is on the brink of death? What the hell? We're supposed to root for these guys? Hahahahahah. Hell noooooo, their relationship started off on a bad foot, and it will continue to stay on a bad foot, until they eventually, hopefully soon, die. Speaking of bad relationships, Raggedpelt and Yellowfang, wth was up with that? What was the point of making Raggedpelt a jerk? It added nothing to the story except to annoy everyone. Same with Finleap and Twigbranch, but at least Finleap is getting better, and he's still alive to continue to get better, unlike Raggedstar, who was killed as soon as he finally came to his senses. Is it too much to ask for a main character, non-forbidden romance, that isn't full of drama for once?
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 13:42:48 GMT -5
the relationship you are looking for is firestar and sandstorm
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 13:55:20 GMT -5
the relationship you are looking for is firestar and sandstorm I guess, but even they had tons of drama, like Spottedleaf, and afterwards, they were just shoved to the background.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jul 26, 2020 14:00:26 GMT -5
It gets a little tiring when the editors make mates horrible to one another for the sake of plot. It gets old really fast.
I honestly wish that Bramblestar and Squirrelflight just weren't at each other's throats constantly. They seemed to be in a good relationship in AVOS, and TBC seems to show that as well, but yikes SQH alone turned them into awful mates for one another. For the record, both of them are at fault in that book. It isn't entirely on just one of them. I also think Finleap also has gotten better. I know there are still people who don't like him, and fair enough considering the way he acted in TRS, but to me he's improved. Especially when he decided to leave with Twigbranch in VOS after the impostor refused to let her back into ThunderClan.
For a romance that isn't toxic or drama filled, Firestar and Sandstorm come to mind. Graystripe and Millie (as far as I remember), and Ivypool and Fernsong. They might have gotten moved to the background, but these cats are in a healthy, happy relationship, which is nice and certainly better than the ones mentioned above.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 14:03:37 GMT -5
It gets a little tiring when the editors make mates horrible to one another for the sake of plot. It gets old really fast. I honestly wish that Bramblestar and Squirrelflight just weren't at each other's throats constantly. They seemed to be in a good relationship in AVOS, and TBC seems to show that as well, but yikes SQH alone turned them into awful mates for one another. For the record, both of them are at fault in that book. It isn't entirely on just one of them. I also think Finleap also has gotten better. I know there are still people who don't like him, and fair enough considering the way he acted in TRS, but to me he's improved. Especially when he decided to leave with Twigbranch in VOS after the impostor refused to let her back into ThunderClan. For a romance that isn't toxic or drama filled, Firestar and Sandstorm come to mind. Graystripe and Millie (as far as I remember), and Ivypool and Fernsong. They might have gotten moved to the background, but these cats are in a healthy, happy relationship, which is nice and certainly better than the ones mentioned above. That's true, it'd be cool if Fernsong got a novella that showcases his and Ivypool's relationship more, since they got together after Ivypool was a POV, and one who actually has stayed in the background lol.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 14:10:16 GMT -5
It gets a little tiring when the editors make mates horrible to one another for the sake of plot. It gets old really fast. I honestly wish that Bramblestar and Squirrelflight just weren't at each other's throats constantly. They seemed to be in a good relationship in AVOS, and TBC seems to show that as well, but yikes SQH alone turned them into awful mates for one another. For the record, both of them are at fault in that book. It isn't entirely on just one of them. I also think Finleap also has gotten better. I know there are still people who don't like him, and fair enough considering the way he acted in TRS, but to me he's improved. Especially when he decided to leave with Twigbranch in VOS after the impostor refused to let her back into ThunderClan. For a romance that isn't toxic or drama filled, Firestar and Sandstorm come to mind. Graystripe and Millie (as far as I remember), and Ivypool and Fernsong. They might have gotten moved to the background, but these cats are in a healthy, happy relationship, which is nice and certainly better than the ones mentioned above. That's true, it'd be cool if Fernsong got a novella that showcases his and Ivypool's relationship more, since they got together after Ivypool was a POV, and one who actually has stayed in the background lol. if there's not some drama in the relationship, there's nothing to write about. the whole book would be about then going for a walk and talking about how much they like each other. there has to be some amount of conflict in order to make the relationship interesting. i liked fire x sand because the only drama was when he didnt give her tawnypaw as an apprentice, and her feeling overshadowed by spottedleaf (both of which were pretty quickly resolved and communicated immediately, like mature adults)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 14:15:04 GMT -5
That's true, it'd be cool if Fernsong got a novella that showcases his and Ivypool's relationship more, since they got together after Ivypool was a POV, and one who actually has stayed in the background lol. if there's not some drama in the relationship, there's nothing to write about. the whole book would be about then going for a walk and talking about how much they like each other. there has to be some amount of conflict in order to make the relationship interesting. i liked fire x sand because the only drama was when he didnt give her tawnypaw as an apprentice, and her feeling overshadowed by spottedleaf (both of which were pretty quickly resolved and communicated immediately, like mature adults) Didn't the Spottedleaf thing last for several books?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 26, 2020 14:35:31 GMT -5
when has a main POV protagonist had a normal, drama-free, healthy relationship that we actually see on page? fernxivy doesnt count because we dont have her POV anymore by the time they get together. and firexsand DID have that spottedleaf drama in firestar's quest, and then afterward, everything's fine and they fade to the background.
every other protagonist relationship we see from their POV on page, was problematic in some way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 14:38:32 GMT -5
when has a main POV protagonist had a normal, drama-free, healthy relationship that we actually see on page? fernxivy doesnt count because we dont have her POV anymore by the time they get together. and firexsand DID have that spottedleaf drama in firestar's quest, and then afterward, everything's fine and they fade to the background. every other protagonist relationship we see from their POV on page, was problematic in some way. Exactly! Even Lionblaze, who are very good together now, had their problems, with Cinderheart feeling inferior because of Lionblaze's prophecy thing, and then, stupid Lionblaze was willing to throw all the prophecy, all of the clans, in the trash for some girl he once disliked.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Jul 26, 2020 14:43:28 GMT -5
I despised YellowxRagged the whole time and the fact that Raggedstar could have avoided making an extremely, cold-blooded, malicious headman by dumping Yellowfang and going with Foxheart drove me to hell and back. One like= one better mate for Yellowfang
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 14:45:26 GMT -5
I despised YellowxRagged the whole time and the fact that Raggedstar could have avoided making an extremely, cold-blooded, malicious headman by dumping Yellowfang and going with Foxheart drove me to hell and back. One like= one better mate for Yellowfang Yeah, what annoys me the most of all, is that there was absolutely no reason to make him a jerk, there was already enough drama without that added on top of it.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 26, 2020 14:47:16 GMT -5
when has a main POV protagonist had a normal, drama-free, healthy relationship that we actually see on page? fernxivy doesnt count because we dont have her POV anymore by the time they get together. and firexsand DID have that spottedleaf drama in firestar's quest, and then afterward, everything's fine and they fade to the background. every other protagonist relationship we see from their POV on page, was problematic in some way. Exactly! Even Lionblaze, who are very good together now, had their problems, with Cinderheart feeling inferior because of Lionblaze's prophecy thing, and then, stupid Lionblaze was willing to throw all the prophecy, all of the clans, in the trash for some girl he once disliked. firexsand- started out as rivals to friends to lovers. but there was minor cinderpelt drama between sand and cinderpelt, and some spottedleaf stuff on firestar's end...then firestar's quest brought the spottedleaf stuff to the foreground for drama between fire and sand...and since firestar's SE is in his POV, this counts as his relationship drama. bramblexsquirrel- started out toxic and mean, and pretty much remained that way up til now...like yikes, talk about trying to make a dead thing walk. leafxcrow- terribly rushed and nonsensical. caused individual life drama for both parties. crow's anger toward her and their kits later in the series is a huge no-no. though apart toward the end of leafpool's life, crow is more mellow and is geniunely heartbroken to hear she passed. lionxheather- incredibly toxic lionxcinder- dragged out and boring whiny drama because of cinderheart....yuck jayxhalf- terribly rushed and nonsensical on jayfeather's end (OOC, etc.) dovextiger- rushed, nonsensical, a little bit toxic, caused too much drama, dragged out this drama over multiple books and arcs, terrible communication and loyalty issues for both parties. dead in the water. they're only fine in TBC now because their drama and POV's are over...other than that, the way they got to that point is horrible and a huge waste of time to readers. twigxfin- got ruined thanks to finleap's weird toxic turn....yikes violetxtree- idk enough about AVOS to say anything about this if it occured in AVOS bristlexroot- super rushed and nonsensical on bristle's end...kill me lol
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Post by *Faith* on Jul 26, 2020 14:48:55 GMT -5
when has a main POV protagonist had a normal, drama-free, healthy relationship that we actually see on page? fernxivy doesnt count because we dont have her POV anymore by the time they get together. and firexsand DID have that spottedleaf drama in firestar's quest, and then afterward, everything's fine and they fade to the background. VioletshinexTree? I personally really like this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 14:51:13 GMT -5
ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆Tree and Violetshine weren't too bad, but there was still some drama there, like him not knowing if he was going to stay, and what not, which isn't bad compared to Bramblestar and Squirrelflight.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 26, 2020 14:52:24 GMT -5
ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ Tree and Violetshine weren't too bad, but there was still some drama there, like him not knowing if he was going to stay, and what not, which isn't bad compared to Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. so there was positive stuff between them in violet's POV chapters? im shocked lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 15:01:05 GMT -5
ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ Tree and Violetshine weren't too bad, but there was still some drama there, like him not knowing if he was going to stay, and what not, which isn't bad compared to Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. so there was positive stuff between them in violet's POV chapters? im shocked lol I think so? I barely remember Violetshine's POV much..RIP, the only thing I remember mostly from AVOS is I found Sandynose pretty amusing.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 15:26:34 GMT -5
if there's not some drama in the relationship, there's nothing to write about. the whole book would be about then going for a walk and talking about how much they like each other. there has to be some amount of conflict in order to make the relationship interesting. i liked fire x sand because the only drama was when he didnt give her tawnypaw as an apprentice, and her feeling overshadowed by spottedleaf (both of which were pretty quickly resolved and communicated immediately, like mature adults) Didn't the Spottedleaf thing last for several books? not on firestar's end. i think people confuse spottedleaf's pining with internal relationship drama. after the one scene in FQ sandstorm was like "oh okay" and it never caused them issues again, even if spottedleaf continued to be sad
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 15:28:51 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 15:32:56 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. I'm just saying there doesn't need to be a ton of romance drama every single arc. There has been a forbidden romance EVERY SINGLE ARC. Bramblestar x Squirrelflight is supposed to be this power couple, but they don't work together, AT ALL, the writers ruined their potential for the sake of drama. If they have so little faith outside of romance drama, to make their books seem interesting, then I don't know what to say. Personally, I like the books better without romance drama, it feels cheap. In fact, I'd like an arc with no romance in the main plot at all, that'd be nice.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Jul 26, 2020 15:36:02 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. It it like a game of chess in which the Erins have only one king and Fandom has 5 Queens and 10 rooks all around it lol
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Jul 26, 2020 15:38:34 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. In fact, I'd like an arc with no romance in the main plot at all, that'd be nice. It is extremely annoying to know the Erins’ writing style so well that all of the POV relationships all seem the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 15:40:07 GMT -5
In fact, I'd like an arc with no romance in the main plot at all, that'd be nice. It is extremely annoying to know the Erins’ writing style so well that all of the POV relationships all seem the same. Right?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 26, 2020 16:08:09 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. 100% agree, the amount of times I've seen complaining about something followed by hating it and moving the goalposts once it actually happens in this fandom is kind of crazy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 16:32:48 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. 100% agree, the amount of times I've seen complaining about something followed by hating it and moving the goalposts once it actually happens in this fandom is kind of crazy. So, what you guys are saying, is that no one is allowed to complain about things they don't like or find tiring? Alright.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 16:34:45 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. 100% agree, the amount of times I've seen complaining about something followed by hating it and moving the goalposts once it actually happens in this fandom is kind of crazy. I don't like how Warriors and their writers have set the standard of "happy, healthy couples are boring, so let's kill them!"
If you believe this same mentality as the writers, then I do not know what to tell you.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 17:08:22 GMT -5
i feel like if y'all actually got a totally drama-free relationship y'all would call it boring. not sure there's any way for the erins to win here. I'm just saying there doesn't need to be a ton of romance drama every single arc. There has been a forbidden romance EVERY SINGLE ARC. Bramblestar x Squirrelflight is supposed to be this power couple, but they don't work together, AT ALL, the writers ruined their potential for the sake of drama. If they have so little faith outside of romance drama, to make their books seem interesting, then I don't know what to say. Personally, I like the books better without romance drama, it feels cheap. In fact, I'd like an arc with no romance in the main plot at all, that'd be nice. i agree a series doesn't need a romance arc to be interesting. it would be interesting to see the erins take a step back from that for a bit and see what they replace it with. i only meant that there is no such thing as a totally drama-free relationship, both in fiction and IRL. navigating any relationship will turn up some conflict, it's just a matter of how that conflict is dealt with (i.e. maturely or childishly)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 17:13:31 GMT -5
I'm just saying there doesn't need to be a ton of romance drama every single arc. There has been a forbidden romance EVERY SINGLE ARC. Bramblestar x Squirrelflight is supposed to be this power couple, but they don't work together, AT ALL, the writers ruined their potential for the sake of drama. If they have so little faith outside of romance drama, to make their books seem interesting, then I don't know what to say. Personally, I like the books better without romance drama, it feels cheap. In fact, I'd like an arc with no romance in the main plot at all, that'd be nice. i agree a series doesn't need a romance arc to be interesting. it would be interesting to see the erins take a step back from that for a bit and see what they replace it with. i only meant that there is no such thing as a totally drama-free relationship, both in fiction and IRL. navigating any relationship will turn up some conflict, it's just a matter of how that conflict is dealt with (i.e. maturely or childishly) That's true, I just wish it didn't have to last for arcs and what not, I'm mostly miffed about Bramblestar x Squirrelflight, who was supposed to be their "power couple"
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 17:13:35 GMT -5
100% agree, the amount of times I've seen complaining about something followed by hating it and moving the goalposts once it actually happens in this fandom is kind of crazy. I don't like how Warriors and their writers have set the standard of "happy, healthy couples are boring, so let's kill them!" If you believe this same mentality as the writers, then I do not know what to tell you.
okay but "healthy and happy" is not synonymous with "no conflict ever". i understand that a lot of relationships in warriors have not been portrayed/developed in the healtiest of manners and that's a valid complaint. but at times it seems like the fandom thinks that a good relationship means no drama/problems, when that's just not how actual relationships work.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 26, 2020 17:14:39 GMT -5
i agree a series doesn't need a romance arc to be interesting. it would be interesting to see the erins take a step back from that for a bit and see what they replace it with. i only meant that there is no such thing as a totally drama-free relationship, both in fiction and IRL. navigating any relationship will turn up some conflict, it's just a matter of how that conflict is dealt with (i.e. maturely or childishly) That's true, I just wish it didn't have to last for arcs and what not, I'm mostly miffed about Bramblestar x Squirrelflight, who was supposed to be their "power couple" i understand, and i agree that the erins aren't particularly good at writing engaging romances. bramble x squirrel is becoming a textbook case of toxic relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 17:16:18 GMT -5
I don't like how Warriors and their writers have set the standard of "happy, healthy couples are boring, so let's kill them!" If you believe this same mentality as the writers, then I do not know what to tell you.
okay but "healthy and happy" is not synonymous with "no conflict ever". i understand that a lot of relationships in warriors have not been portrayed/developed in the healtiest of manners and that's a valid complaint. but at times it seems like the fandom thinks that a good relationship means no drama/problems, when that's just not how actual relationships work. Hmm...My apologies. I guess I understand what you're saying here. In this series, "no drama/conflict" usually means they're background couples with "no problems" simply because we do not see them often or at all. Many people are quick to point to Fernsong x Ivypool as the pinnacle of a healthy "perfect" couple in this series with "no drama."
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