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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 25, 2020 22:46:47 GMT -5
let's say you HAD to keep this pairing and you could improve it to where it not only makes sense for jayfeather's character, but would also be considered a good enough romance subplot.
i feel like a lot of parts concerning jayfeather's personality and motivations would have to change to make this work. in sign of the moon, jayfeather expresses not being able to be "normal" or have a mate and kits of his own. what if we expanded on that and made that his constant insecurity in power of 3/omen of the stars?
maybe jayfeather holds onto his warrior dreams for a bit longer. even as a medicine cat apprentice, he would be constantly jealous of his siblings, and even more so when lionblaze gets a mate and kits of his own. or what if jayfeather has a little infatuation on cinderheart and that's why he's so jealous of the life lionblaze gets to live?
so when he meets half moon as an apprentice, he is instantly invested in a she-cat who shows him that kind of attention. he views half moon as his only chance to feel like a "normal warrior" even though he can't be a warrior in present time.
over time, jayfeather would move on and get invested in being a medicine cat, but then he meets half moon again and he's reminded of what he wished he had. this makes jayfeather doubt himself a lot until rock convinces him to go back to the present and live out his life. rock promises him that he'll be with half moon in the afterlife. this makes jayfeather feel better enough to go back to the present willingly. he then tries a second time to let go and go back to how he was: a loyal medicine cat.
not much about jayfeather would change besides what i wrote above. he'd still grow up and move past this and still be his grumpy self. however, he's just gurmpy he has to live a life alone until he is able to die naturally and see half moon again.
along the way, he gets attached to briarlight and once she and leafpool die, his depression and aggressiveness get worse.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 23:07:56 GMT -5
Not include it at all. Tbh the whole Ancients time travel plot felt like a fever dream lmao.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 25, 2020 23:34:34 GMT -5
Not include it at all. Tbh the whole Ancients time travel plot felt like a fever dream lmao. thats true. i have big nostalgia heart eyes for this pairing so i wonder what it would take to make it "work" since i acknowledge its flaws with the time travel stuff.
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Post by Smokyyy on Apr 25, 2020 23:35:18 GMT -5
We'd have JayxStick exist and not JayxHalf
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 25, 2020 23:38:22 GMT -5
I would get rid of it.
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Post by kinkajou on Apr 25, 2020 23:39:27 GMT -5
Replace it with JayxKestrel
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 25, 2020 23:43:03 GMT -5
as much as i like jayxkestrel and stuff, i still want people to think critically on how they'd re-write something that was in canon lol
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Post by Hollyfall on Apr 25, 2020 23:53:05 GMT -5
Get rid of it and make JayxStick canon.
Jokes aside, I really like what you put. I'd have him somehow return as Jay's Wing after the events of OOTS. He sees how happy Lionblaze is with Cinderheart and how much they love their kids. Since he's a grouchy old soul, he feels that Half Moon is the only cat he tolerates. He keeps visiting her and helps her as she settles into her role as Stoneteller, but, she finds out that Jayfeather is actually doing some sort the time travelling shenanigans (basically, she figures out he's "Jayfeather" and not "Jay's Wing") and tells him that he's needed in the present times and they break off, but they promise to meet one another in StarClan/Tribe of Endless Hunting. Been a while since I read about Jay and Half Moon though.
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 25, 2020 23:57:14 GMT -5
If I HAD to keep it? Hard to say; Half Moon would have to be reincarnated too I guess; that way the two can start “anew” together, even though once again they can’t be together-together due to their duties. They can at least see each other more and get to know each other instead of that abrupt moment where suddenly Jayfeather likes her back (perhaps because of Jay Wing’s influence so it wasn’t really his own will). It felt weird and forced because Jayfeather isn’t Jay’s Wing to an exact T to me. I’m not a huge fan of reincarnation in Warriors or reincarnated lovebirds because these reincarnated cats become their own person and it feels weird to start up a romance just because you were in love with that person in another life time. Jayfeather doesn’t truly know who she is. I can’t say it’s creepy but it’s...weird, as if they don’t have any control over who they’ll get with in the end.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 25, 2020 23:57:23 GMT -5
Get rid of it and make JayxStick canon. Jokes aside, I really like what you put. I'd have him somehow return as Jay's Wing after the events of OOTS. He sees how happy Lionblaze is with Cinderheart and how much they love their kids. Since he's a grouchy old soul, he feels that Half Moon is the only cat he tolerates. He keeps visiting her and helps her as she settles into her role as Stoneteller, but, she finds out that Jayfeather is actually doing some sort the time travelling shenanigans (basically, she figures out he's "Jayfeather" and not "Jay's Wing") and tells him that he's needed in the present times and they break off, but they promise to meet one another in StarClan/Tribe of Endless Hunting. Been a while since I read about Jay and Half Moon though. that's interesting too! i forgot to include more about how i'd deal with half moon's side of things. if she found out about his real identity and his prophecy purpose, i want to believe she'd definately tell him to go back and fufill it.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 26, 2020 0:00:20 GMT -5
If I HAD to keep it? Hard to say; Half Moon would have to be reincarnated too I guess; that way the two can start “anew” together, even though once again they can’t be together-together due to their duties. They can at least see each other more and get to know each other instead of that abrupt moment where suddenly Jayfeather likes her back (perhaps because of Jay Wing’s influence so it wasn’t really his own will). It felt weird and forced because Jayfeather isn’t Jay’s Wing to an exact T to me. I’m not a huge fan of reincarnation in Warriors or reincarnated lovebirds because these reincarnated cats become their own person and it feels weird to start up a romance just because you were in love with that person in another life time. Jayfeather doesn’t truly know who she is. I can’t say it’s creepy but it’s...weird, as if they don’t have any control over who they’ll get with in the end. them being reincarnated together in another generation in clans would be the best and cutest thing ever :'( i have such a soft spot for the pairing bc i was a huge fan of it when i was young. what if after halfmoon finds out who he truly is and they have to figure out if their feelings for each other is geniune, angst will happen and in the end, they'll agree to wait for another life together. in conclusion: im a huge sap.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 26, 2020 0:19:25 GMT -5
(Long post alert)
I'm guessing you put "Let's say you HAD to keep this pairing" at the top of your post so you wouldn't get an influx of posts going "Just don't include it!!!"? Makes sense. That's basically my answer as well, but maybe I can put a spin on it.
Jaypaw accidentally ends up in the Ancient World in Long Shadows. Everything proceeds as normal up to Chapter 17 of the book (I remember this because my copy is bent at the spine such that this chapter is the first thing you see when you open it lol). He realizes that Half Moon is expressing romantic interest in him and he becomes very uncomfortable around her (you know, as he does in canon). We see a few more scenes of the two of them and Jaypaw is unsure what to do-- he doesn't know if Jay's Wing was Half Moon's mate or if he (JW) had a crush on her or what was supposed to happen. Jaypaw knows he doesn't return her interest, but doesn't know if he should pretend he does or not in order to keep the timeline consistent. He ends up just awkwardly avoiding her whenever possible. When he leaves the Ancients, he's initially hesitant (as in canon) because the cats were just about to leave, but ends up going back. Once he's safely back in TC, he has a short, passing thought of how thankful he is he doesn't have to deal with the whole romance situation anymore (this would literally be one sentence in narration, not a big thing).
At his Medicine Cat Ceremony, Half Moon would not be there. He would see/detect the Ancients there, but he can't pinpoint Half Moon specifically, and his thought in canon about how he would have been with her if things had been different doesn't exist. Just doesn't happen.
Jayfeather has literally not a single thought about Half Moon for the next four books.
In Sign of the Moon, Jayfeather gets angry at Rock and runs out of Stoneteller's Cave, only to bump into Dove's Wing. He's very confused for a moment, not quite understanding why he's able to see Dovewing (The TC one). She then says "Jay's Wing!" in surprise and welcome, and Jayfeather has a flood of memories back to his experience in Long Shadows. He wildly improvises a conversation with Dove's Wing, and then suddenly realizes that Half Moon must be here, and starts to have mild anxiety. Later in the scene, he talks to her. She's very happy to see him and starts being affectionate with him, which he just sort of awkwardly accepts but doesn't return.
Story proceeds as in canon in terms of the new Tribe discovering dangers and potential infighting and Jayfeather going on a hunting patrol with Half Moon and Chasing Clouds. CC is horribly injured by the eagle (not lethally, just very badly). Jayfeather's Medicine Cat instincts take over and he becomes fully invested in his work-- his one mission is to make Chasing Clouds better, and nothing will stand in his way or distract him. After he's fully treated CC and made him a place to rest, he goes to Half Moon and comforts her, since CC is her father. Jayfeather has no sense of romance here at all, he's simply comforting a family member of an injured cat as he would in ThunderClan. This is misinterpreted by Half Moon, who believes Jay's Wing worked so hard to save her father because he cared for her, and is now being kind to her because he loves her back. This encourages her to be more affectionate with him in later scenes.
Later on, when the two are exploring the Cave of Pointed Stones, Half Moon asks about kits. Jayfeather is completely and totally taken aback and at a loss for words. Half Moon keeps sharing her fantasy when Jayfeather finally interrupts her, saying he doesn't know about any of that. There ensues a very awkward conversation where Jayfeather tries to "break up" with her without admitting he never liked her at all, and Half Moon is just confused and missing his point. Jay doesn't want to hurt her feelings, as he thinks she is a good cat, he just doesn't want to be involved romantically with her, and he has a lot of trouble putting that into words. The two part on not-great terms.
When Jayfeather is standing at the waterfall and Rock appears to him, Jayfeather doesn't want to leave. But in this timeline, it's not because he wants to stay and have a family with Half Moon, it's because he's grown to care for all these cats and realizes that they don't have a medicine cat to help them if anyone gets injured, which is likely in the Mountains territory. Rock presents Half Moon becoming the Stoneteller as a compromise instead of blatantly saying "it's destined to happen". Jayfeather is initially put off by the idea of spending time training Half Moon, but eventually decides to do it so he can go back to TC.
He then goes on to subtly train her by instructing her in the care of Chasing Clouds. While they're caring for him, Jay will bring up what she should do if anyone else gets injured in a similar or different way, as well as what to do if cats get sick. This way she doesn't catch on, but is still learning.
Half Moon's naming ceremony is very similar to how it is in canon, but Jayfeather doesn't harbor romantic feelings. Half Moon still has her "why can't you just reject me like a normal person?" line, and Jay becomes annoyed. But she eventually accepts her fate and goes through with her ceremony. It can still be dramatic without romance. Jay then goes back to ThunderClan (or-- the patrol that's in the Mountains right now) and names the new Stoneteller in the present time as in canon.
The ThunderClan patrol leaves and when Jayfeather turns around to say goodbye to the Mountains territory, he hears a voice on the wind-- it's the voice of the previous Stoneteller, and then in sequence, every Stoneteller throughout history all the way back to Half Moon-- thanking him for the work he did in saving the Tribe. When he hears Half Moon's voice, he does briefly wonder if things had been different and he had truly lived in that time, would he have wanted to be with her? He then reaffirms his position in ThunderClan and thinks of all the things he's thankful for in his present life, and sends a prayer to Half Moon thanking her for her work as well, and says she's a great cat that he's happy he got to know. The book ends.
The Forgotten Warrior is the same, except Jayfeather's moping about Half Moon is deleted, and he does not reference her when comforting Lionblaze about Cinderheart.
In The Last Hope during the Dark Forest battle, instead of sharing a romantic scene, Jayfeather and Half Moon greet each other as friends and have a back-to-back badasses moment against the DF cats attacking the medicine den. This concludes their story arc together, as they've both finally accepted their fates.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 26, 2020 1:16:02 GMT -5
Hey, so that really really long post I just wrote? Yeah, I started writing that when this thread had zero replies still.
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Lesbian
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sorethroat
Part-time lurker.
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 26, 2020 1:33:04 GMT -5
If I HAD to keep it? Hard to say; Half Moon would have to be reincarnated too I guess; that way the two can start “anew” together, even though once again they can’t be together-together due to their duties. They can at least see each other more and get to know each other instead of that abrupt moment where suddenly Jayfeather likes her back (perhaps because of Jay Wing’s influence so it wasn’t really his own will). It felt weird and forced because Jayfeather isn’t Jay’s Wing to an exact T to me. I’m not a huge fan of reincarnation in Warriors or reincarnated lovebirds because these reincarnated cats become their own person and it feels weird to start up a romance just because you were in love with that person in another life time. Jayfeather doesn’t truly know who she is. I can’t say it’s creepy but it’s...weird, as if they don’t have any control over who they’ll get with in the end. them being reincarnated together in another generation in clans would be the best and cutest thing ever :'( i have such a soft spot for the pairing bc i was a huge fan of it when i was young. what if after halfmoon finds out who he truly is and they have to figure out if their feelings for each other is geniune, angst will happen and in the end, they'll agree to wait for another life together. in conclusion: im a huge sap. See at least here they have some sort of control because it’s them who decide if they move on or not! also no shame in being a huge sap A small idea because the whole insecurity thing you included in your post is interesting: Jay’s Wing, along with Dove’s Wing and Lion’s Roar, reincarnated willfully because they knew they had to in order to fulfill the prophecy, even if it meant losing their memories and original sense of selves, but Half Moon offered to come along with him him and help, hoping that their paths will cross and they’ll get together again. So they went together not sure if they would really end up together again but willing to take the risk and sacrifice their romance if it meant saving the Clans. Dove’s Wing and Lion’s Roar didn’t have mates as Ancients so there’s no harm to them when it comes to romance. Unfortunately, while they did remember and grew together again, the warrior code doesn’t allow them to be together in this life because Jayfeather is a medicine cat, and Halfmoon is a warrior (and perhaps is in another Clan altogether and there’s no way Jayfeather is going to break the code like his mother did). They’re both different personality-wise compared to how they were as Ancients. Also, Jayfeather physically can’t see Halfmoon outside of memories and dreams; he clings to those images of her instead. So they ended up in a similar situation from their past life with slight reversals. Jayfeather still visits the Ancients and mutually suffers the crisis Cinderheart suffered and what that means for his romance with Halfmoon, and as such he’s a bit bitter than Dovewing and Lionblaze didn’t get the “short end of the stick” in comparison and get to be with who they love. However he and Halfmoon agree that it was worth it for saving the Clans. I just need to figure out HOW she ends up being helpful.
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Post by crowspirit on Apr 26, 2020 2:02:32 GMT -5
I would probably just erase it completely and make Jay x Briar canon. (am I the only one who loves this ship?) Jay and Half Moon are just good friends and Sign of The Moon has none of their romantic interactions, just like how friends are acting. Jayfeather is still reluctant to leave because he has found a very good friend and also grew to be attached to the other Ancients. The line ,,I'll wait for you forever, Jay's Wing" could still exist, but as a friend promising to wait for a friend that is moving to a place a hundred miles away.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Apr 26, 2020 2:19:23 GMT -5
I would make it so that Half Moon finds out that Jayfeather is not "Jay's Wing". I found it really weird that she never found out in her lifetime because she thinks she's falling for Jay's Wing, who was mentioned to be her friend as an apprentice, when it's actually Jayfeather and it was borderline creepy.
Honestly, the whole situation between Jayfeather and Jay's Wing was kind of weird. Did he possess Jay's Wing? What happened to the real Jay's Wing? Jay's Wing supposedly disappeared between Long Shadows and Sign of the Moon, so did the real Jay's Wing just cease to exist after Jayfeather took over?
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Apr 26, 2020 4:39:15 GMT -5
I would say that instead of Jay's Wing disappearing, he lived out his life with Half Moon and they had kits, but there's not exactly a good way to do this without some weird tom-foolery. It doesn't sound appealing to have Jayfeather die in the battle, go back and live his previous again, then go to StarClan present-day. Half MoonxJayfeather has no truly satisfying ending even with some cheese, unfortunately.
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Post by Sundance on Apr 26, 2020 5:35:29 GMT -5
Instead of it being a true time travel scenario, I would make it clear that Jayfeather is not so much time traveling as he is being sucked into his subconscious, being forced to relive his past life as the memories come rushing back to him as if he's in a lucid dream. I'd also end the flashback with Jays Wing dying, rather than weirdly, inexplicably, disappearing into thin air. And I'd have this whole past-life-flashback-sequence be legitimately relevant to the plot to defeat the Dark Forest. Make it so Jayfeather has to uncover something in his past that will critically save him (or the Clans) in the Great Battle. And tie Half Moon to that. (Sorry this is all really vague, I don't have a detailed plot in mind. Not a clue. :-P )
Perhaps Rock, everyone's favorite hairless weirdo, could be center stage in the flashback-sequences and the scenes could also be used to explain his backstory better.
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