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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 17:10:48 GMT -5
^
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 17:14:01 GMT -5
because we didnt see him being evil until yellowfangs secret (and we all know how a lot of people feel about ys).
its not enough to tell us a villain is the devil and murders children and starves old people or whatever. theres not intimidation factor when we're being spoonfed this information. it needs to happen more often in front of us or the threat just feels nebulous and kind of.... not present.
also he gets walloped so quickly once thunderclan steps in that its hard to believe he was ever a threat. he makes every other clan look pathetic for not being able to deal with him. they shouldve shown him doing The Bad Things and had him stick around a bit longer to give him some weight as a danger to the clans. as it is, i find it very difficult to believe his poorly trained kittens and half starved clan drove out windclan.
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 25, 2020 17:18:37 GMT -5
He was just generically evil I suppose? I think he served his purpose to give Into the Wild and Fire and Ice some tension before we got to the real threat, aka Tigerstar.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Apr 25, 2020 17:31:06 GMT -5
I actually appreciated him in Arc 1. He was a decent villain, and since Tigerstar was really the villain of the arc as a whole, I'm okay with Brokenstar being relegated to just the first book. Yellowfang's Secret, as much as I love it in other regards, retroactively made Brokenstar a worse villain. I expected to see more of a backstory for him to explain how he got so evil, but the book essentially goes "He's evil 'cause. Just 'cause." Supposedly he's the Clan's punishment for driving out SkyClan, so he was just born evil. Which I hated as a plot twist and just headcanon away. In my version, Brokenkit is just like any other kit, but felt rejected and outcasted. He grows up with a good relationship with Yellowfang, seeing her almost as an older sister, but lacks relationships with anyone else-- including his father, who he feels only gives him attention in front of the Clan and never actually spends time with him. When he becomes a warrior, he starts to make friends who encourage him to take over ShadowClan, as they're dissatisfied with his leadership. In short, his path to evil is much more drawn out and actually has a reason behind it past "He's evil 'cause".
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 25, 2020 17:34:41 GMT -5
Brokenstar wasn't given enough time to be shown actually doing things. We were told he's bad. Yellowfang's Secret didn't do that great a job of showing how he became the way he was said to be.
He and Tigerclaw/star should have interacted. I would personally want them to compete OR work together.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 17:36:59 GMT -5
Supposedly he's the Clan's punishment for driving out SkyClan, so he was just born evil. Which I hated as a plot twist and just headcanon away. ooooh man i rlly hate him being starclans "punishment" to the clans. everybody who suffered from this "punishment" didnt even know skyclan existed and had nothing to do with it. especially the, you know, absurd amount of actual literal babies that were murdered by brokenstar. it just makes starclan look like stupid, incompetent sadists.
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 25, 2020 17:41:35 GMT -5
Supposedly he's the Clan's punishment for driving out SkyClan, so he was just born evil. Which I hated as a plot twist and just headcanon away. ooooh man i rlly hate him being starclans "punishment" to the clans. everybody who suffered from this "punishment" didnt even know skyclan existed and had nothing to do with it. especially the, you know, absurd amount of actual literal babies that were murdered by brokenstar. it just makes starclan look like stupid, incompetent sadists. Not to mention why did they wait so long to deal out this “punishment” when they could have nipped it in the bud in the first place. How about covering the clouds during the gathering when the Clans were refusing for SkyClan to stay?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 17:43:16 GMT -5
ooooh man i rlly hate him being starclans "punishment" to the clans. everybody who suffered from this "punishment" didnt even know skyclan existed and had nothing to do with it. especially the, you know, absurd amount of actual literal babies that were murdered by brokenstar. it just makes starclan look like stupid, incompetent sadists. Not to mention why did they wait so long to deal out this “punishment” when they could have nipped it in the bud in the first place. How about covering the clouds during the gathering when the Clans were refusing for SkyClan to stay? YEAH i reread firestars quest and starclans name is literally evoked and they still do nothing. and then starclan basically tells firestar to forget about skyclan because there werent enough trees or whatever. it is so obvious starclan didnt care about skyclan and it feels like a stupid and lazy retcon to create drama.
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Post by Hollyfall on Apr 25, 2020 19:57:19 GMT -5
He was just "evil". He didn't have any sort of morally gray area in him or anything like that, he was just an evil cat. Not a single redeeming quality about him. Also he was supposed to be a "punishment" for Yellowfang taking a forbidden mate? Like, jeez, I think that's a little much, no? The guy made child soldiers and was a complete heartless tyrant. Little excessive for a medicine cat taking a mate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 20:14:01 GMT -5
He was just "evil". He didn't have any sort of morally gray area in him or anything like that, he was just an evil cat. Not a single redeeming quality about him. Also he was supposed to be a "punishment" for Yellowfang taking a forbidden mate? Like, jeez, I think that's a little much, no? The guy made child soldiers and was a complete heartless tyrant. Little excessive for a medicine cat taking a mate. as i said above, the idea of a cat who commits evil deeds onto others as "punishment" is so morally bankrupt that whoever in starclan thought of it should be sent straight to the dark forest. congratulations, yellowfang feels guilty! and all you had to do was get windclan chased from their home, start a reign of tyranny in the forest, and kill dozens of babies!
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Apr 25, 2020 20:18:20 GMT -5
I think he was fine in TPB (haven't read YS in a long time). His role was to be set up to Tigerstar, both in that he destroyed ShadowClan so thoroughly that they welcomed Tigerstar with open arms and that he served as a warning to the readers on what could happen should a tyrant, such as Tigerstar, take power.
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Post by epicstyle on Apr 25, 2020 20:23:36 GMT -5
I think him being beaten by an apprentice played a large part in this lol.
The first book has a very campy feeling in general, which kind of makes sense because it's main function is to introduce the reader to the world and familiarize us with the characters. And since the overarching plot with Tigerclaw wouldn't escalate until later they needed a sort of introductory villain, and Brokenstar served that purpose.
I do wish they'd fleshed out his character a bit more, he's the definition of evil for the sake of it.
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Post by Card against Humanity on Apr 25, 2020 20:54:27 GMT -5
bc when we finally meet him for real in the first series he's a pathetic coward
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Post by Redstorm on Apr 25, 2020 21:08:50 GMT -5
Way too weak physically. Sorta stock villain, but I don't think that's too big of an issue. I also think when he was in the Dark Forest, I would've liked to see his dynamics more with the other leaders such as Tigerstar and Mapleshade.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 25, 2020 21:38:27 GMT -5
He suffers from being overhyped. He's talked up to the moon, but ultimately his schemes are pretty lame and his fighting ability is not so high. He just didn't do anything to stand out to be honest. I mean, the kit warriors was bad, but it's not really emphasized and it's solved in a blink of an eye. It's nothing like, for example, Tigerstar killing half-clan cats straight up. I do like how he was treated in OOTS though. He's the "leader" of the Dark Forest, but it's clear that Tigerstar is just telling him what his insane brain wants to hear and poking and prodding him to do what Tigerstar wants. Brokenstar fell for everything Tigerstar told him, hook, line, and sinker. He's just like Mapleshade, a brutish, bloodthirsty thug without much imagination or intelligence.
Which I guess is also part of the problem. Brokenstar is supposed to be very manipulative and smart, but in reality, he gets led around by the nose by Tigerstar with zero problem and is generally just a flunkie.
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Post by unfilteredangst on Apr 26, 2020 19:49:09 GMT -5
I actually appreciated him in Arc 1. He was a decent villain, and since Tigerstar was really the villain of the arc as a whole, I'm okay with Brokenstar being relegated to just the first book. Yellowfang's Secret, as much as I love it in other regards, retroactively made Brokenstar a worse villain. I expected to see more of a backstory for him to explain how he got so evil, but the book essentially goes "He's evil 'cause. Just 'cause." Supposedly he's the Clan's punishment for driving out SkyClan, so he was just born evil. Which I hated as a plot twist and just headcanon away. In my version, Brokenkit is just like any other kit, but felt rejected and outcasted. He grows up with a good relationship with Yellowfang, seeing her almost as an older sister, but lacks relationships with anyone else-- including his father, who he feels only gives him attention in front of the Clan and never actually spends time with him. When he becomes a warrior, he starts to make friends who encourage him to take over ShadowClan, as they're dissatisfied with his leadership. In short, his path to evil is much more drawn out and actually has a reason behind it past "He's evil 'cause". I really like your version! Maybe Brokenstar just wasn't given enough screen time to really be seen as threatening. I would say, have him cause more problems in the first book, and when they go to retrieve the kits, have them retrieve the kits, but fail trying to drive Brokenstar out. Thunderclan realizes that they need warriors in order to defeat Brokenstar. So in the second book (somewhere in the middle), after a long battle against his allies, they successfully drive him out. Boom, next book. As payback for driving him out, Brokenstar and his allies started terrorizing Thunderclan and Shadowclan territory, Bluestar orders them to find him, blind him (That rhymed), and bring him back to camp. After the rogue attack on Thunderclan camp, and just after Fireheart told Ravensong to go before Bluestar finds out what he was planning (This is kinda collaborated with an Evil!Ravenpaw AU so yee) he finds Brokentail with Yellowfang, slouched over and walking slowly. Fireheart asks what Yellowfang is doing and she says how she was going to go somewhere private to feed him deathberries, and is surprised on how willingly Brokentail is acting. Brokentail finally speaks up, saying how after he was blinded, that gave him time to actually see that throughout all his life, he's been mistreated, and had one of the worst luck. How with good friends and Yellowfang as a close figure in his life, he could have turned out good, but chose this path. He finds that he can't turn back, and with what he's done, he doesn't see anyone forgiving him. So Yellowfang feeds him the deathberries, and his life ends right there. (I just wish he had more depth into how he became evil other than 'oh he's pure evil and all aaaa' Idk This isn't really a fleshed out version and more of skeleton I have yet to flesh out)
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Post by Sunbreeze on Apr 27, 2020 14:34:06 GMT -5
Brokenstar is made to be a typical cliche villain who gets defeated quite easily in order for Tigerstar, a more pragmatic villain, to take his place. He fills in that purpose well and is a fairly good introductory villain, and he would've been fine if the authors didn't try to expand on him like they did in Yellowfang's Secret. He ultimately doesn't do much and just ends up being a pawn in Tigerstar's plan.
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Post by unfilteredangst on Apr 27, 2020 18:31:53 GMT -5
At the end of the first book wasn't Brokenstar like "Fuhuhu I have 9 lives fireheart I'm your worst enemy I will use them to kill you one by one." And then deadass died the next book? Well, more like 2 books later but I see your point
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Post by Brindlefern on Apr 27, 2020 19:29:15 GMT -5
At the end of the first book wasn't Brokenstar like "Fuhuhu I have 9 lives fireheart I'm your worst enemy I will use them to kill you one by one." And then deadass died the next book? Best bet: Dude was bluffing to intimidate Fireheart.
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