|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:25:15 GMT -5
Just like my other posts, but with Dark Forest cats, who I've seen people say don't belong in The Dark Forest, or it could be argued that there are cats who went to StarClan, for doing worse crimes, and for as not a strong of motive.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:41:25 GMT -5
...give us some hard ones if you’re gonna do this, please Alright.. Why don't you make a list of your own if you think you're so clever, and NOT using any of the ones on this post.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 15, 2020 16:42:11 GMT -5
I personally believe Thistleclaw went to the Dark Forest because, like Beetlewhisker, he was "tainted" by the DF and those who are tainted cannot leave even in death, regardless of morality. In the sense, him going to the DF makes sense.
Morally speaking, no, I do not think he deserved the DF.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 16:44:23 GMT -5
I personally believe Thistleclaw went to the Dark Forest because, like Beetlewhisker, he was "tainted" by the DF and those who are tainted cannot leave even in death, regardless of morality. In the sense, him going to the DF makes sense. Morally speaking, no, I do not think he deserved the DF. That does make sense, also, do you mean Antpelt, and not Beetlewhisker? I'm pretty sure Beetlewhisker is in StarClan (if he's even dead lol)
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 16:58:44 GMT -5
So, Darkstripe tried to murder Sorrelkit, which was terrible, but can we just stick him in purgatory forever instead? He's not even that evil. He's just a really, really lame follower.
Mapleshade...I feel like she needed something besides DF or Starclan too.
Thistleclaw wasn't DF justified to me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 17:11:26 GMT -5
*Ottersplash*Darkstripe just loooveeed Tigerstar too much! Just kidding.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 17:26:01 GMT -5
ChickenHe's just...so pathetic. Like, I almost feel bad for Darkstripe. You have the toughest of the tough in the DF and then you have Darkstripe, who gets told to shut up and just crawls into a hole. He can't even kill a half-starved cat.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 17:29:33 GMT -5
Chicken He's just...so pathetic. Like, I almost feel bad for Darkstripe. You have the toughest of the tough in the DF and then you have Darkstripe, who gets told to shut up and just crawls into a hole. He can't even kill a half-starved cat. I felt bad for Darkstripe too, whenever he was trying to talk to the head honchos in The Dark Forest, and they kept flat out ignoring him. He's like that guy, who you only keep around, to make the butt of all your jokes or something. I REALLY want to know what kind of cat he was, before getting Tigerclaw as a mentor.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 18:41:49 GMT -5
You too Card against HumanityMaybe you and Spinestar could make a list together. Really, how many well known Dark Forest cats are there? Oh what, does Houndleap belong in StarClan, because he's from WindClan, and there's no such thing as an evil WindClan cat?
|
|
|
Post by Cheetahstar on Mar 15, 2020 18:44:07 GMT -5
So many debates could have been solved had the erins given us a middle ground
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 18:45:59 GMT -5
So many debates could have been solved had the erins given us a middle ground Right? Kind of like how it is in real life, with Heaven, Hell, and purgatory, but I guess the ghost realm is a bit like purgatory..but they should have made it sooner, so cats who don't fit in either the Dark Forest or StarClan could go to it
|
|
|
Post by Fireleap on Mar 15, 2020 20:45:58 GMT -5
I believe Thistleclaw deserved the Dark Forest, but only after SH was released. Before then? No, he should've gone to StarClan.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 20:46:53 GMT -5
CheetahstarExactly I feel like hell is too extreme for a lot of cats. I'm very selective of who I think genuinely gets cat hell
|
|
|
Post by KittyClearsight on Mar 15, 2020 22:12:44 GMT -5
They all deserve the Dark Forest. I think Mapleshade, Hawkfrost and Darkstripe are obvious, they did really awful things including murder, or at least attempted murder.
Thistleclaw, while he didn't do anything, willingly tained in the dark forest even when he knew what they were all about. He had an evil heart, and I feel that's what condemned him in the end.
|
|
|
Post by Sundance on Mar 16, 2020 2:56:50 GMT -5
Based on his actions in Bluestar’s Prophecy alone, no, I don’t think Thisteclaw deserved the Dark Forest. That’s why I like to imagine he was given the option to enter StarClan, and chose otherwise.
It’s not on the poll, but I 100000% choose to believe Beetlewhisker is in StarClan, canon be damned.
|
|
|
Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Mar 16, 2020 3:09:20 GMT -5
I'm kind of torn on Thistleclaw. I mostly see him as just a complete ass. But when I think about it, he deserves to just be a ghost in limbo.
Darkstripe on the other hand was the biggest simp in the series. He was a cat that was very mislead, and was dim witted too.
|
|
|
Post by Jayie on Mar 16, 2020 8:36:41 GMT -5
Let’s not forget that Thistleclaw let his apprentice severely wound a defenseless kit (and nearly kill him if we’re going by the graphic novel) in front of him, actively egging him on, and was actually angry when Bluefur stopped Tigerpaw from hurting the defenseless child further (again, or killing him, if we’re going by the graphic novel). He seemed utterly unconcerned by the fact that the “intruder” he’d told Tigerpaw to attack was no older than his own kit. Not to mention his eagerness to learn the killing blow in the DF, and his general aggressiveness and bloodlust.
Even excluding SH, I definitely believe Thistleclaw’s cruelty and his actions with Tiny made him deserve the Dark Forest.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 16, 2020 9:22:47 GMT -5
Let’s not forget that Thistleclaw let his apprentice severely wound a defenseless kit (and nearly kill him if we’re going by the graphic novel) in front of him, actively egging him on, and was actually angry when Bluefur stopped Tigerpaw from hurting the defenseless child further (again, or killing him, if we’re going by the graphic novel). He seemed utterly unconcerned by the fact that the “intruder” he’d told Tigerpaw to attack was no older than his own kit. Not to mention his eagerness to learn the killing blow in the DF, and his general aggressiveness and bloodlust. Even excluding SH, I definitely believe Thistleclaw’s cruelty and his actions with Tiny made him deserve the Dark Forest. Attacking kits really is a bad thing. Imagine if he had murdered an elder for guarding them and then stolen kits right out of the nursery to train them to die, he'd have really crossed the line into DF worthy then. Actually, that was Blackfoot(just to name a few) Blackfoot was much worse when it came to kits, I'd say, yet he doesn't get the DF.
|
|
|
Post by Jayie on Mar 16, 2020 10:47:11 GMT -5
Let’s not forget that Thistleclaw let his apprentice severely wound a defenseless kit (and nearly kill him if we’re going by the graphic novel) in front of him, actively egging him on, and was actually angry when Bluefur stopped Tigerpaw from hurting the defenseless child further (again, or killing him, if we’re going by the graphic novel). He seemed utterly unconcerned by the fact that the “intruder” he’d told Tigerpaw to attack was no older than his own kit. Not to mention his eagerness to learn the killing blow in the DF, and his general aggressiveness and bloodlust. Even excluding SH, I definitely believe Thistleclaw’s cruelty and his actions with Tiny made him deserve the Dark Forest. Attacking kits really is a bad thing. Imagine if he had murdered an elder for guarding them and then stolen kits right out of the nursery to train them to die, he'd have really crossed the line into DF worthy then. Actually, that was Blackfoot(just to name a few) Blackfoot was much worse when it came to kits, I'd say, yet he doesn't get the DF. True, but unlike Thistleclaw, Blackstar spent many years trying to be a better cat and a worthy leader for his Clan. Whether he succeeded is definitely up for debate, and I’m definitely not averse to the idea of Blackstar going to the DF (or at least purgatory/ghost), but to his credit he did seem remorseful for his actions and tried to make up for them. Thistleclaw never did. And I’d argue that what Thistleclaw did was about as bad as stealing kits (though not as bad as killing an elder - unless he truly did intend for Tigerpaw to kill Tiny).
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 16, 2020 11:27:48 GMT -5
Attacking kits really is a bad thing. Imagine if he had murdered an elder for guarding them and then stolen kits right out of the nursery to train them to die, he'd have really crossed the line into DF worthy then. Actually, that was Blackfoot(just to name a few) Blackfoot was much worse when it came to kits, I'd say, yet he doesn't get the DF. True, but unlike Thistleclaw, Blackstar spent many years trying to be a better cat and a worthy leader for his Clan. Whether he succeeded is definitely up for debate, and I’m definitely not averse to the idea of Blackstar going to the DF (or at least purgatory/ghost), but to his credit he did seem remorseful for his actions and tried to make up for them. Thistleclaw never did. And I’d argue that what Thistleclaw did was about as bad as stealing kits (though not as bad as killing an elder - unless he truly did intend for Tigerpaw to kill Tiny). That's an interesting moral question, whether someone gets to avoid the DF because they lived longer and so had the chance to change their morality later in life. Thistleclaw lived a very short life compared to Blackstar. If Blackstar had ended up killed in the Darkest Hour, what then?
|
|
|
Post by Jayie on Mar 16, 2020 11:39:05 GMT -5
True, but unlike Thistleclaw, Blackstar spent many years trying to be a better cat and a worthy leader for his Clan. Whether he succeeded is definitely up for debate, and I’m definitely not averse to the idea of Blackstar going to the DF (or at least purgatory/ghost), but to his credit he did seem remorseful for his actions and tried to make up for them. Thistleclaw never did. And I’d argue that what Thistleclaw did was about as bad as stealing kits (though not as bad as killing an elder - unless he truly did intend for Tigerpaw to kill Tiny). That's an interesting moral question, whether someone gets to avoid the DF because they lived longer and so had the chance to change their morality later in life. Thistleclaw lived a very short life compared to Blackstar. If Blackstar had ended up killed in the Darkest Hour, what then? If he’d died in TDH, I’d definitely say either DF (if he died before getting the chance to fight on behalf of the Clans in the BloodClan battle), or maybe even if he didn’t) of purgatory/ghost (if he defended the Clans from BloodClan before he died. Maybe cats who did bad in their lives but would’ve made up for it if they’d had time could serve some time in purgatory before bring leg into StarClan? Dunno. Either way, considering Thistleclaw died starting a fight with RiverClan and was one of the Dark Forest leaders after he died, it doesn’t seem like he was ever interested in remorse or redemption.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 16, 2020 11:43:54 GMT -5
That's an interesting moral question, whether someone gets to avoid the DF because they lived longer and so had the chance to change their morality later in life. Thistleclaw lived a very short life compared to Blackstar. If Blackstar had ended up killed in the Darkest Hour, what then? If he’d died in TDH, I’d definitely say either DF (if he died before getting the chance to fight on behalf of the Clans in the BloodClan battle), or maybe even if he didn’t) of purgatory/ghost (if he defended the Clans from BloodClan before he died. Maybe cats who did bad in their lives but would’ve made up for it if they’d had time could serve some time in purgatory before bring leg into StarClan? Dunno. Either way, considering Thistleclaw died starting a fight with RiverClan and was one of the Dark Forest leaders after he died, it doesn’t seem like he was ever interested in remorse or redemption. It seems rather arbitrary. I imagine if Thistleclaw was alive in TDH, he'd have definitely fought Bloodclan, relished it, even. With regards to Thistleclaw's DF leadership, well he can't exactly do much else once he's there. He's either someone to be abused by the leaders or becomes a leader himself, there's really nothing else to do in the DF. It wouldn't inspire redemption at all, more just make bad cats even worse. That's why Rock criticized the clan cats for its existence.
|
|
|
Post by Jayie on Mar 16, 2020 12:04:56 GMT -5
If he’d died in TDH, I’d definitely say either DF (if he died before getting the chance to fight on behalf of the Clans in the BloodClan battle), or maybe even if he didn’t) of purgatory/ghost (if he defended the Clans from BloodClan before he died. Maybe cats who did bad in their lives but would’ve made up for it if they’d had time could serve some time in purgatory before bring leg into StarClan? Dunno. Either way, considering Thistleclaw died starting a fight with RiverClan and was one of the Dark Forest leaders after he died, it doesn’t seem like he was ever interested in remorse or redemption. It seems rather arbitrary. I imagine if Thistleclaw was alive in TDH, he'd have definitely fought Bloodclan, relished it, even. With regards to Thistleclaw's DF leadership, well he can't exactly do much else once he's there. He's either someone to be abused by the leaders or becomes a leader himself, there's really nothing else to do in the DF. It wouldn't inspire redemption at all, more just make bad cats even worse. That's why Rock criticized the clan cats for its existence. Mmm, true on him fighting against BloodClan. And the Dark Forest used to be a place of wandering alone before cats started training together there - I imagine one could stay out of the way of the other DF cats there if they really wanted to. Even if they couldn’t, Thistleclaw is still responsible for his choices to help the DF try to destroy the Clans, and the cats he killed or tried to terrorize onto fighting on his side. It was his own cruelty in life that landed him in the DF - and he was the one who’d chosen to train there in the first place, seemingly fully aware of what they were, even calling StarClan weak.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Mar 16, 2020 12:19:45 GMT -5
It seems rather arbitrary. I imagine if Thistleclaw was alive in TDH, he'd have definitely fought Bloodclan, relished it, even. With regards to Thistleclaw's DF leadership, well he can't exactly do much else once he's there. He's either someone to be abused by the leaders or becomes a leader himself, there's really nothing else to do in the DF. It wouldn't inspire redemption at all, more just make bad cats even worse. That's why Rock criticized the clan cats for its existence. Mmm, true on him fighting against BloodClan. And the Dark Forest used to be a place of wandering alone before cats started training together there - I imagine one could stay out of the way of the other DF cats there if they really wanted to. Even if they couldn’t, Thistleclaw is still responsible for his choices to help the DF try to destroy the Clans, and the cats he killed or tried to terrorize onto fighting on his side. It was his own cruelty in life that landed him in the DF - and he was the one who’d chosen to train there in the first place, seemingly fully aware of what they were, even calling StarClan weak. The training had already started back in Crookedstar's Promise, I don't think it's the kind of thing you can opt out of. I mean, Snowtuft was clearly trying to hide from them several times yet he was found and tortured as a result. And all he was doing was trying to avoid training, imagine active rebellion, the punishment for that is just death as with Beetlewhisker. Once in the DF, it seems one's either in for life or chooses torture/death. The same would have applied to the OOTS trainees had they not been able to force a pitched battle which destroyed the DF, but that was a circumstance that could never have happened earlier. Any attempt to rebel would have been useless.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 16, 2020 13:59:23 GMT -5
I'm kind of torn on Thistleclaw. I mostly see him as just a complete ass. But when I think about it, he deserves to just be a ghost in limbo. Darkstripe on the other hand was the biggest simp in the series. He was a cat that was very mislead, and was dim witted too. This is how I feel on Thistleclaw. Being an ass doesn't really justify hell. I think being in limbo...and then maybe being forced to have a nice chat with Snowfur and Whitestom.
|
|