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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 12:00:58 GMT -5
Okay, so, I realized that I forgot some VERY controversial characters when it comes to whether or not they belong in the Dark Forest, and I don't want to delete the poll..again...so I'm going to put part 2 here.
The cats on here are..
Hawkheart Ravenwing Appledusk Frecklewish Oakstar
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Post by platinum blond death on Mar 15, 2020 12:15:27 GMT -5
1. He may have killed Moonflower, which, yikes, and taunted her child about it, which, wow, asshole much? But he was defending his store, and considering how he was a warrior beforehand, is not surprising that he could have the ability to kill Moonflower. Plus, she was trying to destroy his herb supply, because that was what the raid was about.
2. I blocked MV out of my mind, but didn't this guy simply just say, I have this vision? Obviously, ousting Mapleshade was not the right thing to do--her kits, her secret, her decision. But he also has to listen to StarClan, so that's a whole catch-22. I don't think he should, anyways.
3. He fell out of love with Mapleshade, took another mate, and was a jerk overall. DF? Eh, no.
5. I forgot everything she did except that she was bitten by an adder. However, I think Mapleshade killed her because she didn't do anything to save her kits. Which, I don't think she deserves the DF.
6. He exiled kits, who were innocent, but he grew from the experience and overall was not scummy. No DF for him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 12:18:21 GMT -5
platinum blond deathI think Ravenwing, as the medicine cat, whose first duty is to look after ThunderClan as a whole, had every right to alert his leader, that there was a traitor among them. I know that Mapleshade's only crime then was falling in love with a cat from another clan, but that still classifies her as a traitor. And the way things were between RiverClam and ThunderClan, he had every reason to be wary of this relationship, ESPECIALLY because of who the relationship was with.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 15, 2020 12:24:16 GMT -5
Hawkheart - Yes. Sure, it was right of him to protect his herbs, but he went too far and taunted Bluepaw. He was a medicine cat and shouldn't have been fighting in the first place. Ravenwing - Probably not, but he should have protected Mapleshade's kits from exile. Appledusk - Yes, but for his disloyalty to RiverClan and treating Mapleshade badly. Frecklewish - No. However, if she never chased Mapleshade out, then maybe Mapleshade would have thought more clearly and not made her kits cross the river. Oakstar - He learned from what happened to Mapleshade and her kits, so no.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 12:36:07 GMT -5
*Ravenpaw*While I disagree with Hawkheart going to the Dark Forest, I am kind of curious as to how it would be for a medicine cat down there, and it would have been cool to see more of him during Omen of the Stars
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Post by Card against Humanity on Mar 15, 2020 12:39:18 GMT -5
hawkheart: no. moonflower was trying to destroy his herbs, he had every right to defend them
ravenwing: aren't medicine cats suppose to be disconnected from the main clan stuff? ravenwing didn't have an obligation to tell oakstar imo, and he should have known if Oakstar was the type of leader to overreact to something like that anyways. he's not as bad as some of the other cats but i don't think he's blameless either, and the fact that he didn't do anything when oakstar freaked out rubs me the wrong way too. i dont think he deserves the dark forest though
appledusk: yes.
frecklewish and oakstar: probably not but i still dislike them strongly for being so callous towards literal kits. idc if oakstar "learned" from the experience he shouldn't have done it to begin with. like ravenwing though i don't think they deserve the dark forest
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 12:47:43 GMT -5
Hawkheart - Nope. I think he was justified in killing Moonflower. Was he an ass for how he taunted Bluestar? Absolutely. But as I've said time and time again, being an ass isn't a DF offense. Ravenwing - These next ones are all rough for me. I don't think he was wrong telling his leader. I DO think he was wrong in not trying to stand up for Mapleshade or AT LEAST her kits. Do I think that is DF worthy? Eh. No. Appledusk - I'm torn on him so I can't vote. How he treated Mapleshade was disgusting. But it comes back to whether or not being an asshole is a DF worthy offense. Frecklewish - I think her reaction was over the top, and I get why Mapleshade was livid with her. She was also an ass. DF? Eh. Oakstar - He exiled a mother and her kits. That was awful. Did he learn from it? Maybe. Does he deserve the DF? Maybe not.
Personally, I think almost every character (besides Reedshine and Perchpaw) are morally questionable. Do most of them deserve the DF? Probably not. Even Mapleshade's case was difficult (considering you could argue insanity for her).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 12:50:31 GMT -5
*Ottersplash*I think that was the best Ravenwing argument I've ever seen, I like how it was short, and to the point, but it still made a lot of sense. With Frecklewish, I can understand why she was a jerk, but I do think she went a bit too far.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 12:55:24 GMT -5
ChickenMV is a difficult story because there are very few characters who don't just straight up suck.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 13:00:33 GMT -5
Chicken MV is a difficult story because there are very few characters who don't just straight up suck. True, and it's hard to get a grasp on what kind of cats these characters are, since we only see them through the POV of the cat who was wronged by them. I'd love to see the same events through Nettlepaw's eyes, since he was nice to Mapleshade, but also loyal to ThunderClan, and some RiverClan cat, so we can see what Appledusk and Reedshine were like.
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 15, 2020 13:37:57 GMT -5
Hawkheart: I'd say no, he was only defending his herbs. However, he really didn't need to taunt her daughter about killing her mother.
Ravenwing: Also no. Unless Mapleshade's kits were a danger to the Clan, I think he should have kept his mouth shut and not told anyone otherwise, but I don't think he was an inherently evil cat.
Appledusk: Cheating on your mates and betraying your Clan is a big no-no and he was kind of a jerk, but I don't think his actions warrant going to cat hell.
Frecklewish: No, but she didn't need to be some vehemently rude about it. But, from her point of view, Mapleshade lied about those three kits being Frecklewish's nephews and niece, I'd be hurt too if that happened.
Oakstar: Again, no. From his perspective, those three kits were his grandchildren, and when he learned they weren't, I'd be pretty angry that one of my own warriors lied to me about that. However, I think he should have least punished Mapleshade if nothing else; the kits were innocent.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 15, 2020 14:28:52 GMT -5
*Ravenpaw* While I disagree with Hawkheart going to the Dark Forest, I am kind of curious as to how it would be for a medicine cat down there, and it would have been cool to see more of him during Omen of the Stars It's probably not much different from a warrior going to the Dark Forest. So far we haven't had any medicine cats there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 14:41:59 GMT -5
*Ravenpaw* While I disagree with Hawkheart going to the Dark Forest, I am kind of curious as to how it would be for a medicine cat down there, and it would have been cool to see more of him during Omen of the Stars It's probably not much different from a warrior going to the Dark Forest. So far we haven't had any medicine cats there. I've love to see a medicine cat down there, and how everyone else treats them, like if they respect them more because they're a medicine cat, or less because they're a medicine cat.
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Post by Fireleap on Mar 15, 2020 15:04:27 GMT -5
Hawkheart- No. He went too far, but he was just protecting his medicine store. He was just keeping his Clan safe. Ravenwing- No. He just reported on what StarClan told him. Not his fault StarClan was so harsh on three innocent kits. Appledusk- No. He was a cheating asshole but he didn't do anything DF worthy. Frecklewish- No. What was she supposed to do? She can't swim, she'd have done more harm than good if she tried to save the kits. Oakstar- Yes. The things he did to Mapleshade's kits and the kittypets were awful. Just because he followed the will of StarClan doesn't mean he did the right thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 15:07:18 GMT -5
FireleapOmg, I completely forgot about Oakstar and the kittypets! That was messed up, why was he so afraid of them anyway?
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 15, 2020 15:34:07 GMT -5
Frecklewish is far worse than Appledusk. She actually attacked Mapleshade and almost took out her eyes and was the one hounding her immediately out of the territory. Not to mention she ended up killing her own self in her moment of stupid anger.
Are these DF worthy offenses? I'm not sure, but I know for a fact that there's zero reason that Appledusk should have more DF votes as Frecklewish is absolutely worse.
Overall, I'd say none are DF worthy except for maybe Oakstar and Frecklewish, and the latter more likely not. Oakstar is a 50/50 for me.
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Post by Card against Humanity on Mar 15, 2020 15:36:28 GMT -5
tbh i take back what I said about appledusk. I said yes bc the other cats were at least doing things that they thought were right while Appledusk was just being a horrible person knowingly, but ig that's not really DF worthy either
in general though everyone in MV was such a huge asshole that I have a hard time taking it seriously. you'd think that at least one of the cats who screwed over mapleshade would have had some sympathy for her kits
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 15:38:07 GMT -5
Frecklewish is far worse than Appledusk. She actually attacked Mapleshade and almost took out her eyes and was the one hounding her immediately out of the territory. Not to mention she ended up killing her own self in her moment of stupid anger. Are these DF worthy offenses? I'm not sure, but I know for a fact that there's zero reason that Appledusk should have more DF votes as Frecklewish is absolutely worse. Overall, I'd say none are DF worthy except for maybe Oakstar and Frecklewish, and the latter more likely not. Oakstar is a 50/50 for me. I don't really get why Appledusk has so many votes either, his worst crime was cheating, and he also entered in a forbidden relationship, but so did Mapleshade, and she literally KILLED cats, and the same people who say Appledusk deserves the DF, think that Mapleshade doesn't...which makes no sense? I know that Appledusk also accidentally killed Birchface, but sending him to the DF for that, would be the same as sending Graystripe to the DF for killing Whiteclaw, or Lionblaze for killing Russetfur, or just anyone who accidentally killed someone in battle.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 15:40:56 GMT -5
I think most MV cats deserve some time in a purgatory situation where they're faced with what they've done. That way, they can move onto Starclan, but can also have some time to reflect on being shitty cats
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 15, 2020 20:55:07 GMT -5
It's probably not much different from a warrior going to the Dark Forest. So far we haven't had any medicine cats there. I've love to see a medicine cat down there, and how everyone else treats them, like if they respect them more because they're a medicine cat, or less because they're a medicine cat. I'd like to see that, too.
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Post by KittyClearsight on Mar 15, 2020 22:09:27 GMT -5
I dont see any of them as Dark Forest worthy, but Appledusk is not particularly StarClan worthy either. If there was a sort of in between purgatory where they have to make up for their actions then I'd say Appledusk should go there before being permitted into StarClan.
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Post by thehiddenicewolf on Mar 16, 2020 2:02:59 GMT -5
Hawkheart - He went too far by killing Moonflower, then again i feel as though he was defending his herb store other than that he was a jerk most of the time, but i think we would have to hear a bit more of his story before we decide but i don't think he's evil enough
Ravenwing - He felt it was his duty to tell Oakstar the truth so i don't think he deserves the df
Appledusk - He was more just a jerk so no
Frecklewish - She believed the father of the kits was her brother so i guess she was too overwhelmed with grief and betrayal
Oakstar - He scared kittypets and exiled Mapleshade, the scaring kittypets i don't agree with either but with exiling her he must have thought he was just following the warrior code and like Frecklewish he was overwhelmed with grief. I don't think he should've exiled her kits but he still isn't evil enough
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Post by Sundance on Mar 16, 2020 2:42:20 GMT -5
I think Appledusk should have been made to briefly wander the Dark Forest, or elsewhere, before being instated into StarClan.
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