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Post by platinum blond death on Mar 12, 2020 18:34:33 GMT -5
So! As the title says, I finished Squirrelflight's Hope in a day, sacrificing class time for it (don't worry I am a good student). And guess what? I have opinions. If I were to rank this, it would not be very high.
What I Liked: - The StarClan scene, it was really sweet. - Dandelionkit and Juniperkit, they were incredibly cute. - Squirrelflight's relationship with her sister. I love good interactions with siblings; they are always so sweet. - Jayfeather acknowledging that he still loves Leafpool, but not as a mother. He still loves her regardless as a Clanmate. Also Jayfeather in general.
What I Disliked: - Squirrelflight and Bramblestar's constant arguing. Every single thing they'd blow up over it. It got annoying, and even more so when they'd finish one argument only to move on to another one because no one could walk away or keep their mouth shut. I get it's tense but at the same time this cannot be healthy nor does it look good. - Squirrelflight constantly arguing with her mate and leader in front of the Clan. It's not that she cannot disagree in public, or that she must support her leader no matter what, it's that she's squabbling with her leader in front of everyone else. If she were to disagree politely, it would be fine, but quarrelling like that, plus doing it so damn often is not good. - Squirrelflight running off all the time. I get she cares about the Sisters, but to the point where your Clan thinks you're going to join them? Cut back on it. You cannot visit them all the time; you cannot run off like that. - The leaders sharing one (very war hungry) brain cell? They all thought it was okay to drive off a group (that was there first, mind you) simply because SkyClan might want it. Leafstar herself said it was best for them to wait, until the other leaders basically bullied her into letting them attack. Even so, it was a very vague agreement. Also, a cat cannot give birth safely all the time. That was a dumb argument. - Bramblestar saying they needed a sign from StarClan to treat Sunrise. Yes, keeping the peace is important. Yes, they did attack ShadowClan. But neither side was innocent. Both sides have to own up. And honestly, letting cats die simply because they fought someone else is kind of stupid. - Tigerheartstar using the attack as an excuse to drive the Sisters off and force SkyClan onto that land. No? It was a couple cats, plus your cats were not in the right either. Both sides suffered. You were defending, but also it's two cats. Not an excuse to say "they're all dangerous, drive them off." - Everyone here had one brain cell, honestly. - Squirrelflight being mad with Bramblestar because he didn't want kits. Okay, it's not selfish to want kits, but it's not selfish to not want kits either. You can't force someone into having offspring, that's not okay. - Bramblestar enforcing rules on his deputy because she snuck off once. I hate that she did that, but at the same time, if he's trying to oversee every little part of her life it means he doesn't trust her. It was once at that point, Bramblestar. Once. - StarClan even debating whether to let Leafpool and Squirrelflight in. For something they told them to do. Leafpool took a mate from another Clan as a medicine cat, yes, but both Yellowfang and Bluestar did the same thing. (The whole medicine cats can't have kits rule is dumb but that's another topic) - The Clans deciding attacking the Sisters while a cat was pregnant was okay. - Bramblestar actually going along with the plan. that's all i can think of
tl;dr, sqh has bad plot and skyclan is the only one with more than one brain cell here. thank you for coming to my ted talk.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 18:43:17 GMT -5
I really like how you put the blame on both Squirrelflight AND Bramblestar, instead of labeling Bramblestar as an abusive mate, and Squirrelflight as the oh woe is me baby, who never does anything wrong.
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Post by platinum blond death on Mar 12, 2020 18:44:49 GMT -5
I really like how you put the blame on both Squirrelflight AND Bramblestar, instead of labeling Bramblestar as an abusive mate, and Squirrelflight as the oh woe is me baby, who never does anything wrong. At this point, I think SquirrelxBramble is just a rocky relationship at best, and toxic at worst. I never thought they were right for each other, plus the arguments and stress just made it worse.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 18:49:58 GMT -5
I really like how you put the blame on both Squirrelflight AND Bramblestar, instead of labeling Bramblestar as an abusive mate, and Squirrelflight as the oh woe is me baby, who never does anything wrong. At this point, I think SquirrelxBramble is just a rocky relationship at best, and toxic at worst. I never thought they were right for each other, plus the arguments and stress just made it worse. Right? The only time I've actually seen them show genuine love for each other, is when Squirrelflight has a death scare, like in The Power of Three, and then in Squirrelflight's Hope, whenever else they're in the spotlight, they're ALWAYS bickering
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 12, 2020 18:53:19 GMT -5
I basically agree with everything here. Although, since this book was basically one big midlife crisis for Squirrelflight, I honestly pitied her more than anything. That said, this book really made me finally dislike her relationship with Bramblestar. It's amazing they didn't break up for good after this.
And it's a shame, because LS made it seem like this really sweet thing, when really, it was more like Squirrelflight came back for the sake of her daughter. Equally sweet, but still disappointing when taking LS into account.
I also really liked Sparkpelt in this and Squirrelflight's relationship with her, and I thought the Sisters were interesting in concept. It was also nice learning more about Tree's past.
I liked the StarClan scene, except for Hollyleaf basically defending Ashfur's right to be there. It's not that she can't forgive him, it's that the entire scene was just weird. With how much of a past they have, you'd think there'd be a bit more of a reaction from her, more to say. Not to mention Squirrelflight and Ashfur don't even talk to each other.
Overall, this is one of my least favorite SEs. Like you said, the only sensible Clan here was SkyClan.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 12, 2020 18:59:09 GMT -5
Moth Flight is so maddening during the judgement scene
I appreciate that Leafpool is so done with her BS and is like 'I don't care what you do to me, but leave my sister out of this :|'
While Yellowfang awkwardly shifts on her paws because her braincells were finally returned to her and she realizes condemning Leafpool is ridiculous
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 12, 2020 19:02:05 GMT -5
What bugs me about the kits thing is that it seems like people side with Bramblestar instead of saying they should have fully discussed it and come to a compromise. Instead, it seems like Bramblestar is getting his way and that's all he ever seems to get in the series.
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Post by Jayie on Mar 12, 2020 22:33:35 GMT -5
What bugs me about the kits thing is that it seems like people side with Bramblestar instead of saying they should have fully discussed it and come to a compromise. Instead, it seems like Bramblestar is getting his way and that's all he ever seems to get in the series. Compromise is good in a lot of situations, but when it comes to a decision as monumental and life-changing as having children, honestly it shouldn’t happen unless both parties truly want it.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 13, 2020 3:22:10 GMT -5
What bugs me about the kits thing is that it seems like people side with Bramblestar instead of saying they should have fully discussed it and come to a compromise. Instead, it seems like Bramblestar is getting his way and that's all he ever seems to get in the series. Compromise is good in a lot of situations, but when it comes to a decision as monumental and life-changing as having children, honestly it shouldn’t happen unless both parties truly want it. Pretty much this. Having children should be mutually agreeable and consent on both sides. Bramblestar shouldn't feel obligated, pressured or guilted into having more children with Squirrelflight just because she wanted more. He clearly wasn't ready, and wanted to focus on other things like the clan. If anything this is a less extreme case of a flipped version of TwigFin. I feel like people need to imagine it like the shoe is on the other foot, what if it was Bramblestar who wanted to push for more kits and Squirrelflight wasn't comfortable or ready for the idea of that yet? I feel like the problem here is that people side with Squirrelflight either way, and it's honestly a bit weird logic wise.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 13, 2020 11:15:08 GMT -5
You do realize that a compromise can consist of anything, right? Not him giving in. He could have promised to think about it more and been more open instead of flat out saying no. Or said they could wait a bit longer. Instead she gets shoved off. She is entitled to her wishes just as much as he is.
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Post by Jayie on Mar 13, 2020 12:46:08 GMT -5
You do realize that a compromise can consist of anything, right? Not him giving in. He could have promised to think about it more and been more open instead of flat out saying no. Or said they could wait a bit longer. Instead she gets shoved off. She is entitled to her wishes just as much as he is. She’s entitled to want kids, but she’s not entitled to have them. If someone doesn’t want kids, and already knows that for sure, they shouldn’t have to promise to think about it more or have more later, just as no one should have to promise to think about going out with someone who’s interested in them but they’re not interested in. Compromise is good in a lot of aspects of a relationship, and it’s definitely something they need to talk about fully and clearly, but you shouldn’t have to change your stance on such a major life decision just because your partner wants it. Better to end a relationship if your desires on such a big issue will never line up, than to give in and be unhappy later with such a permanent decision.
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Post by kells on Mar 13, 2020 13:35:05 GMT -5
literally when has bramble and squirrel not fought or had some tension in their relationship
at this point I'd rather squirrelflight just having a ridiculous bout of oocness, running away with stormfur to join riverclan or the tribe. it sounds like the start of a bad fanfiction but yet still less insufferable than bramble and squirrel's relationship
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 13, 2020 13:54:52 GMT -5
You do realize that a compromise can consist of anything, right? Not him giving in. He could have promised to think about it more and been more open instead of flat out saying no. Or said they could wait a bit longer. Instead she gets shoved off. She is entitled to her wishes just as much as he is. She’s entitled to want kids, but she’s not entitled to have them. If someone doesn’t want kids, and already knows that for sure, they shouldn’t have to promise to think about it more or have more later, just as no one should have to promise to think about going out with someone who’s interested in them but they’re not interested in. Compromise is good in a lot of aspects of a relationship, and it’s definitely something they need to talk about fully and clearly, but you shouldn’t have to change your stance on such a major life decision just because your partner wants it. Better to end a relationship if your desires on such a big issue will never line up, than to give in and be unhappy later with such a permanent decision. My point still went over your head. Honestly, I'm done. The whole hate towards anyone in these books wanting kids but the mate is hesitant gets annoying.
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Post by platinum blond death on Mar 13, 2020 13:57:23 GMT -5
literally when has bramble and squirrel not fought or had some tension in their relationship at this point I'd rather squirrelflight just having a ridiculous bout of oocness, running away with stormfur to join riverclan or the tribe. it sounds like the start of a bad fanfiction but yet still less insufferable than bramble and squirrel's relationship That honestly sounds way better than bramblexsquirrel at this point. Maybe not run away, but break up? It's clearly not working out, and they're always arguing. I think the fact that they're leader and deputy plus mates added to the stress.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 13, 2020 14:14:25 GMT -5
It's perfectly fine if Bramblestar doesn't want more kits. He has every right to protest to such a decision if he feels like it's not the right time or just doesn't want any more at all. It's the way he reacted is what I had a problem with. He just felt a little too harsh imo.
But at this point, you'd think these two would learn to talk things out by now. I hate how often miscommunication is used for drama in this series, and I especially hate it when it's used for this couple.
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Mar 13, 2020 14:24:25 GMT -5
literally when has bramble and squirrel not fought or had some tension in their relationship at this point I'd rather squirrelflight just having a ridiculous bout of oocness, running away with stormfur to join riverclan or the tribe. it sounds like the start of a bad fanfiction but yet still less insufferable than bramble and squirrel's relationship That honestly sounds way better than bramblexsquirrel at this point. Anything is better than BrambleSquirrel tbh Like CrowxNight, teach younger readers that divorce can be good, instead of forcing both Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw into a toxic relationship for no valid reason.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 13, 2020 14:53:18 GMT -5
You do realize that a compromise can consist of anything, right? Not him giving in. He could have promised to think about it more and been more open instead of flat out saying no. Or said they could wait a bit longer. Instead she gets shoved off. She is entitled to her wishes just as much as he is. She’s entitled to want kids, but she’s not entitled to have them. If someone doesn’t want kids, and already knows that for sure, they shouldn’t have to promise to think about it more or have more later, just as no one should have to promise to think about going out with someone who’s interested in them but they’re not interested in. Compromise is good in a lot of aspects of a relationship, and it’s definitely something they need to talk about fully and clearly, but you shouldn’t have to change your stance on such a major life decision just because your partner wants it. Better to end a relationship if your desires on such a big issue will never line up, than to give in and be unhappy later with such a permanent decision. Like he literally felt guilty about it and gave in during an argument, changing his stance on it just to make her happy, but he clearly wasn't ready for more kits. And even Squirrelflight noticed how uncomfortable he was about it and thought she wanted him to want more kits too, but she wanted him to be happy with the idea. Like it's fine if couples want children, but again, both sides should agree on it mutually and with consent. Otherwise it isn't healthy.
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 13, 2020 16:47:20 GMT -5
Obviously I'm just reiterating what people have already said, but if Bramblestar doesn't want kits, he doesn't have to have kits. He had his reasons and he's allowed to say no. Squirrelflight's reaction to it being "you must not love me anymore!" was abysmal. Squirrelflight's allowed to want more kits, but she has to take into consideration that Bramblestar might not want another litter. That's how it works in a partnership; it doesn't revolve entirely around you. Bramblestar is the Clan leader (and Squirrelflight the deputy) which makes it hard as is. If she wanted to just privately discuss with him about it? That'd be fine, but I don't recall them ever doing that in the book; only constant fighting. Admittedly, yeah, he wasn't as nice about it as he could have been, but neither was Squirrelflight. Bramblestar himself says it's hard to run a Clan, and especially when his kin (Squirrelflight and Sparkpelt, at the time) challenge him at every turn, and wanting kits then of all times isn't good for him when he's trying to keep the peace.
That said, I agree with everything you said. I'm annoyed the only peace that Bramblestar and Squirrelflight got was watching over their grandkits. I liked that scene, they weren't arguing, and clearly both loved Flamekit and Finchkit very much. I do wish the narrative was different so we didn't have to see how toxic these two were to each other.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 13, 2020 17:57:54 GMT -5
I still think the arguing was just unnecessary build-up for the possible death scare of Squrrelflight, and now even more so in TBC considering the circumstances.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 13, 2020 18:24:32 GMT -5
Squirrelflight's Hope has Squirrelflight calling out Breezepelt in public, that alone gives it so many bonus points.
But yeah, everything that needs to be said has been said. Only Skyclan acts good in this book. The Sisters are pig-headed, sexist bullies, Shadowclan is a ruthless bunch of schemers who spew hypocrisy on daily, Thunderclan is pitifully indecisive, and let's not even talk about individual characters. I don't necessarily think it's OOC though, more just taking things to their logical conclusion.
Also, I guarantee you that if Squirrelflight was male and Brambleclaw was female no one would be huffing and puffing about how mean Brambleclaw was in daring to deny sainted Squirrelflight kits.
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