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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 8:52:53 GMT -5
Here are what I think the pros and cons of each SE and Novella are..feel free to add your own Redtail's DebtPros:
The cute brotherly scene between Patchpelt and Redtail.
Baby Mudclaw...and baby Tornear, even though he wasn't mentioned by name.
Ryestalk and Shrewclaw being the parents of Mudclaw confirmed in the books.
Cons:
Why'd they do Oakheart like that?
Going against a HUGE plot point in the first series.
Retconning Darkstripe and Sandstorm's parents. Mapleshade's VengeancePros:
Nettlepaw.
Myler.
Eel's a pretty cool prefix
Cons:
Almost everyone else was painted in an extremely negative light.
More background history should have been show.
Ravenwing's death scene. Tigerclaw's FuryPros:
Old Forest ShadowClan.
Deerfoot.
Flintfang.
Cons:
None, this is the best novella. Tallstar's RevengePros:
Tunneling.
Tallstar x Jake.
Mudclaw appeared in one scene.
Cons:
Not enough tunneling.
It didn't show how Tallstar earned his way to becoming leader.
I didn't really like the plot. Yellowfang's SecretPros: Old forest ShadowClan.
A lot of likeable cats, it was nice seeing the more gentle sides of Cedarstar and Stonetooth, which just shows that no one is one-dimensional. A side of Yellowfang we've never seen before
Cons: A lot of sad deaths.
Raggedpelt x Yellowfang...their relationship was SO annoying.
I can't really think of anything else I disliked.
Bluestar's Prophecy Pros: Getting to see a more lighthearted side of Goosefeather.
The shared scenes with Crookedstar's Promise, but in a different POV was pretty cool.
Thrushpelt.
Cons: How rude everyone was to Goosefeather.
Bluestar's POV was kind of unlikeable.
All the tragedy, it's like everyone of the first series leaders has to have some overly tragic backstory or something. I'll do more later
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Post by cowbird on Mar 9, 2020 14:40:46 GMT -5
Well... you know my opinion on Tallstar and Bluestar but i agree about TR's plot like how you skip all them moons, dont even show him being deputy...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 14:51:50 GMT -5
Well... you know my opinion on Tallstar and Bluestar but i agree about TR's plot like how you skip all them moons, dont even show him being deputy... Right? lol Another thing that bothered me in Tallstar's Revenge, was how they made a HUGE deal about Ryestalk being pregnant with Shrewclaw's kits, and then they talked about her being spoiled, and what not..but then they never said who the kits were. Like, why would they build something up like that, and have it have no outcome?
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Post by cowbird on Mar 9, 2020 15:00:36 GMT -5
Well... you know my opinion on Tallstar and Bluestar but i agree about TR's plot like how you skip all them moons, dont even show him being deputy... Right? lol Another thing that bothered me in Tallstar's Revenge, was how they made a HUGE deal about Ryestalk being pregnant with Shrewclaw's kits, and then they talked about her being spoiled, and what not..but then they never said who the kits were. Like, why would they build something up like that, and have it have no outcome? Werent they Mudclaw and Tornear? I mean thats pretty important lmao
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Mar 9, 2020 15:02:16 GMT -5
Another thing that bothered me in Tallstar's Revenge, was how they made a HUGE deal about Ryestalk being pregnant with Shrewclaw's kits, and then they talked about her being spoiled, and what not..but then they never said who the kits were. Like, why would they build something up like that, and have it have no outcome? I think they build up Ryestalk's pregnancy because they wanted us to feel sad when Shrewclaw dies.
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Post by *Faith* on Mar 9, 2020 15:14:18 GMT -5
Here's a con for TF: Clawface is still alive even though he died in Fire and Ice. It took me forever to read this novella because of this mistake. Also, Russetfur and Boulder are still in ShC despite leaving with Brokenstar's rogues, while Stumpytail is with the rogues despite staying with ShC.
Applefur is already in the Clan despite being a kit in TNP. This is why the wiki lists them as separate cats. Here's some pros: We finally meet Nightwhisper. This ShC cat was only ever seen in BOTC in the lake territories. So we already knew he was a rogue and everything who joined Tigerstar/ShC. But we never saw him in the main series. So we finally see him again and learn that his original name was Mowgli.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:30:14 GMT -5
cowbirdLol, yeah, they are..though Mudclaw doesn't get confirmed as their kits, book-canon until Redtail's Debt, which came out like six years after Tallstar's Revenge. I know Tornear and Mudclaw were confirmed to be their kits by one of the author's much sooner than that, but didn't they also confirm that Sandstorm was the kit of Brindleface and Redtail? From now on, I'm taking everything with a grain of salt, unless it's in the books. UмвяᴀYeah, more than likely *Faith*Omg, I completely forgot about Clawface dying in the main series lol, I was just focused on how not completely villianous he seemed, when he was absolutely heart-broken by his son's death, and how he thought it should have been him instead or something
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Post by cowbird on Mar 9, 2020 15:38:31 GMT -5
Wait Sandstorm isnt Redtail's daughter?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:42:28 GMT -5
Wait Sandstorm isnt Redtail's daughter? Idk if it's been actually made non-canon, however in Redtail's Debt, Redtail mentions nothing about having a daughter, or even liking Brindleface, or anything like that. I figured that since it was in Redtail's POV, showing his life from early apprenticeship to death, there would at least be a brief mention of it
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Post by cowbird on Mar 9, 2020 15:53:00 GMT -5
Wait Sandstorm isnt Redtail's daughter? Idk if it's been actually made non-canon, however in Redtail's Debt, Redtail mentions nothing about having a daughter, or even liking Brindleface, or anything like that. I figured that since it was in Redtail's POV, showing his life from early apprenticeship to death, there would at least be a brief mention of it well id like to say maybe it was because the story was short, but thats not an excuse. The erins really dont control what happens to their characters anyways
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Mar 9, 2020 15:58:01 GMT -5
Wait Sandstorm isnt Redtail's daughter? Was this ever canon in the first place?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:58:18 GMT -5
Idk if it's been actually made non-canon, however in Redtail's Debt, Redtail mentions nothing about having a daughter, or even liking Brindleface, or anything like that. I figured that since it was in Redtail's POV, showing his life from early apprenticeship to death, there would at least be a brief mention of it well id like to say maybe it was because the story was short, but thats not an excuse. The erins really dont control what happens to their characters anyways That's lame, they wrote the books, they should be able to do what they want with their characters. All it could have taken was a one sentence mention of Brindleface being in the nursery expecting his kits, or something.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:00:18 GMT -5
Wait Sandstorm isnt Redtail's daughter? Was this ever canon in the first place? I think it was confirmed by one of the authors, I'm not sure, someone on here more than likely knows though. There are some people on here who know like EVERYTHING about Warriors, even the stuff that isn't in the books, it's really cool
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 9, 2020 16:03:11 GMT -5
TF had alot of inconsistencies and I couldn't really take Tigerclaw seriously. Mapleshade's inclusion was also just really unnecessary. It's personally one of my least favorite novellas.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Mar 9, 2020 16:04:43 GMT -5
Was this ever canon in the first place? I think it was confirmed by one of the authors, I'm not sure, someone on here more than likely knows though. There are some people on here who know like EVERYTHING about Warriors, even the stuff that isn't in the books, it's really cool I remember it being on the family tree on the old website. This tree was so full of errors that it was impossible to take seriously. Vicky also said it, but "said by an Erin" does not count as cannon because there are multiple Erins and they don't even have the final say. If it was not stated in the books, it is not canon in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:05:10 GMT -5
TF had alot of inconsistencies and I couldn't really take Tigerclaw seriously. Mapleshade's inclusion was also just really unnecessary. It's personally one of my least favorite novellas. His POV was super laughable to me, it read like one of those bratty teenagers from My Super Sweet Sixteen or something. I completely forgot about Mapleshade being there. I just really like this novella though, I found it kind of funny, even though it wasn't supposed to be. I also really liked Deerfoot (he's the reason I decided to read Yellowfang's Secret) and Flintfang.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:09:30 GMT -5
I think it was confirmed by one of the authors, I'm not sure, someone on here more than likely knows though. There are some people on here who know like EVERYTHING about Warriors, even the stuff that isn't in the books, it's really cool I remember it being on the family tree on the old website. This tree was so full of errors that it was impossible to take seriously. Vicky also said it, but "said by an Erin" does not count as cannon because there are multiple Erins and they don't even have the final say. If it was not stated in the books, it is not canon in my opinion. That's how I'm beginning to feel about things, though sadly, some of my favorite families will probably never be confirmed canon in the books. Like, Tornear being Mudclaw's brother. It's known that Mudclaw is Ryestalk and Shrewclaw's kit, and that Ryestalk had two kits, but in the book, it was never mentioned who the second kit was. Were Dustpelt and Ravenpaw ever confirmed brothers in the book? I know they appeared as apprentices together, but I think Sandstorm and Graystripe did as well
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 9, 2020 16:12:30 GMT -5
Was this ever canon in the first place? I think it was confirmed by one of the authors, I'm not sure, someone on here more than likely knows though. There are some people on here who know like EVERYTHING about Warriors, even the stuff that isn't in the books, it's really cool I've been summoned
It was mentioned by Vicky back when she was the editor for the series about a decade ago (give or take), in the same post that revealed the parentage of Dustpelt, Ravenpaw, and Graystripe. Since she was basically managing the series at the time, it seemed likely that it was the case. However, come the release of Redtail's Debt, the timeline makes unlikely that this could have occurred. It really boils down to what you personally consider canon. I personally like to think it's canon, but I acknowledge it's probability isn't very high unless Redtail's Debt is rewritten and it's included.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:16:20 GMT -5
I think it was confirmed by one of the authors, I'm not sure, someone on here more than likely knows though. There are some people on here who know like EVERYTHING about Warriors, even the stuff that isn't in the books, it's really cool I've been summoned
It was mentioned by Vicky back when she was the editor for the series about a decade ago (give or take), in the same post that revealed the parentage of Dustpelt, Ravenpaw, and Graystripe. Since she was basically managing the series at the time, it seemed likely that it was the case. However, come the release of Redtail's Debt, the timeline makes unlikely that this could have occurred. It really boils down to what you personally consider canon. I personally like to think it's canon, but I acknowledge it's probability isn't very high unless Redtail's Debt is rewritten and it's included. Thanks I kind of wish Redtail's Debt would get rewritten and they fix the Oakheart thing..Oakheart is NOT a rude bully >.< he's a very sweet and caring cat. I'm just really annoyed about how he was portrayed there
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Mar 9, 2020 16:22:04 GMT -5
I remember it being on the family tree on the old website. This tree was so full of errors that it was impossible to take seriously. Vicky also said it, but "said by an Erin" does not count as cannon because there are multiple Erins and they don't even have the final say. If it was not stated in the books, it is not canon in my opinion. That's how I'm beginning to feel about things, though sadly, some of my favorite families will probably never be confirmed canon in the books. Like, Tornear being Mudclaw's brother. It's known that Mudclaw is Ryestalk and Shrewclaw's kit, and that Ryestalk had two kits, but in the book, it was never mentioned who the second kit was. Were Dustpelt and Ravenpaw ever confirmed brothers in the book? I know they appeared as apprentices together, but I think Sandstorm and Graystripe did as well On Dustpelt and Ravenpaw, not in the books, no. But is was on the new Warriors website family tree (which I don't think has any glaring inconsistencies), meaning it got approved by Harper Collins. I'd take it with a grain of salt, but that one is arguable. In the end though, because it doesn't come up in the books, it has no relevance anyway, so it doesn't really matter if it is canon. Tornear and Mudclaw being brothers was also revealed on the family tree if that makes you happy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:24:21 GMT -5
That's how I'm beginning to feel about things, though sadly, some of my favorite families will probably never be confirmed canon in the books. Like, Tornear being Mudclaw's brother. It's known that Mudclaw is Ryestalk and Shrewclaw's kit, and that Ryestalk had two kits, but in the book, it was never mentioned who the second kit was. Were Dustpelt and Ravenpaw ever confirmed brothers in the book? I know they appeared as apprentices together, but I think Sandstorm and Graystripe did as well On Dustpelt and Ravenpaw, not in the books, no. But is was on the new Warriors website family tree (which I don't think has any glaring inconsistencies), meaning it got approved by Harper Collins. I'd take it with a grain of salt, but that one is arguable. In the end though, because it doesn't come up in the books, it has no relevance anyway, so it doesn't really matter if it is canon. Tornear and Mudclaw being brothers was also revealed on the family tree if that makes you happy. Yay XD I think it's cute how when Mudclaw was alive, they were in just about EVERY single patrol together, especially when Mudclaw was deputy, meaning he put his brother in all the same patrols as him lol. Yeah, that's true, I might need to come up with a compromise, like, think of the family tree as canon, but take the books' words over that, you know?
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 9, 2020 16:25:11 GMT -5
I've been summoned
It was mentioned by Vicky back when she was the editor for the series about a decade ago (give or take), in the same post that revealed the parentage of Dustpelt, Ravenpaw, and Graystripe. Since she was basically managing the series at the time, it seemed likely that it was the case. However, come the release of Redtail's Debt, the timeline makes unlikely that this could have occurred. It really boils down to what you personally consider canon. I personally like to think it's canon, but I acknowledge it's probability isn't very high unless Redtail's Debt is rewritten and it's included. Thanks I kind of wish Redtail's Debt would get rewritten and they fix the Oakheart thing..Oakheart is NOT a rude bully >.< he's a very sweet and caring cat. I'm just really annoyed about how he was portrayed there I believe it was said the book would be rewritten to correct Redtail killing Oakheart, though I'm not sure when that will happen. Though, I do agree with you. If they corrected the inconsistent characterizations (Tigerclaw, Oakheart, Ravenpaw) and maybe added in Redtail and Sandstorm's relation, I think it'd be a decent novella. I think a POV from Redtail is interesting, but the way the book was executed...yeesh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:28:48 GMT -5
Thanks I kind of wish Redtail's Debt would get rewritten and they fix the Oakheart thing..Oakheart is NOT a rude bully >.< he's a very sweet and caring cat. I'm just really annoyed about how he was portrayed there I believe it was said the book would be rewritten to correct Redtail killing Oakheart, though I'm not sure when that will happen. Though, I do agree with you. If they corrected the inconsistent characterizations (Tigerclaw, Oakheart, Ravenpaw) and maybe added in Redtail and Sandstorm's relation, I think it'd be a decent novella. I think a POV from Redtail is interesting, but the way the book was executed...yeesh. Really? Awesome ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6575102/images/lNtnPuxeCzkaKMNYVXVv.gif) True, I actually really liked that book except for the points you mentioned. Ravenpaw's behavior can be excused kind of, because he started off as a timid kit in Bluestar's Prophecy (I think?) and he was given Tigerclaw as a mentor to make him more brave, and to come out of his shell, and I think it was working, and Tigerclaw's influence was rubbing off on him, but then seeing his mentor kill a guy right in front of him, probably made him revert back to the scared shy kit he was at the beginning. Honestly, Ravenpaw witnessing that, was probably the one of best things that ever happened to him, otherwise, he could have ended up as another Darkstripe.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Mar 9, 2020 16:36:33 GMT -5
I'll do Tawnypelt's Clan
Pros: This book was adorable. Honestly it was really cute to see Tawnypelt bond with her daughter-in-law and grandson. Shadowkit was really cute. I loved the scene when he was asking the tribe cats if they wanted to share prey and they were like "aww, how polite!". The questions he asked Dovewing at the beginning of the journey were also really cute. I liked Tawnypelt as well and the book made it make sense that she stepped down from being deputy. I liked the conversations Dovewing and Tawnypelt had about motherhood.
Cons: Don't hold people down when they are having a seizure.
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Post by cowbird on Mar 9, 2020 16:36:35 GMT -5
well id like to say maybe it was because the story was short, but thats not an excuse. The erins really dont control what happens to their characters anyways That's lame, they wrote the books, they should be able to do what they want with their characters. All it could have taken was a one sentence mention of Brindleface being in the nursery expecting his kits, or something. Fr- they are also know to mess up the timeline quite a bit so im not surprised if they forgot that they claimed that
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:39:55 GMT -5
UмвяᴀI actually really liked Tawnypelt's Clan too, though I don't remember much of it cowbirdRight? I think the book that is the worst about messing up the timeline is Yellowfang's Secret. Redclaw's dead adult son, was an apprentice again, and his apprentice, instead of Hareflight's, I guess Hareflight got tired of him, and told Redclaw to deal with him or something lol. Also, Mudfur was a medicine cat apprentice, I guess Leopardstar just went bye bye or something. I still love that book, but WOW it should be changed to Yellowfang's Timeline Inconsistencies
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Post by cowbird on Mar 9, 2020 16:46:11 GMT -5
Chicken oh for sure, the inconsistencies are the worst part of the books. I dont know i just like order lmao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:47:56 GMT -5
Chicken oh for sure, the inconsistencies are the worst part of the books. I dont know i just like order lmao Same, I wouldn't say it's the worst part, but it's up there. When I first started reading Yellowfang's secret, I thought that Shrewpaw was actually Tornear as an apprentice, and he got a name change, but then it showed Barkfacepaw at the moonstone, and I knew that my theory was no more.
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