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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 14:12:08 GMT -5
Probably an unpopular opinion. Spoilers for TBC Are they really the bad guys in this situation?
I mean, I know we're supposed to root for the pro-codebreakers, because that's the side of the POV characters, but are the anti-codebreakers wrong?
They spent their whole lives, following the code which they swore to uphold, only to find out that, some cats, who made that SAME promise, are basically getting off scot-free, one is now a deputy, and the other is a leader.
I know that the impostor is going about it the wrong way, and being very choosy with the cats who he decides needs to atone, and I'm not saying he's right, but I don't think that cats like Mallownose, Emberfoot, and Scorchfur, who want to see their disloyal clanmates atone, are bad, and I can understand where they're coming from.
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Mar 2, 2020 14:54:33 GMT -5
I see where you're coming from. In reality, the warrior code is very flawed and causes problems that clan cats purposely choose to either overlook or blame on the codebreaker. Their pride and upbringing make it harder for them to admit the flaws, and as it's been proven that change doesn't always go down well, for example, the Skyclan situation caused more than a few problems. And especially from the reader's perspective, and Bristle/Root's for that matter, they have morals that other cats don't necessarily agree with, or have. Bluestar confirmed in TPB that it was the law to obey the leader, and judging as some older cats can be too stubborn to try and visualise the code in a new light, it could be considered an excuse for Berrynose's recent behaviour (to them.) Obviously, he's acting like a complete pr*ck, but time and time again cat's have been shown to be grudging to accept changes the code. They're all settled in their ways of living.
But, Berrynose's actions in recent books are just disgusting, regardless of how settled they ar e to the code
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Mar 2, 2020 14:59:26 GMT -5
Nah. I share that opinion! StarClan is very wishy-washy, and I can understand how frustrating it is when someone you know blatantly breaks the rules and gets rewarded (i.e. Tigerheart and Dovewing). After all, how do you punish a Clan leader, when StarClan themselves says, "Hmmm...they broke some serious rules, but nah. It's cool. We'll even give one of them nine lives"? And that's just those two. Those who were shouting for atonement are probably sick of it by now. I think the only ones who are innocent are really Jayfeather and Lionblaze, because like they said, they literally can't control who they were born to. Them being on the list is dumb (and gives more reason as to why it's Ashfur, but I digress).
I don't think the anti-codebreakers are wrong at all for feeling sick of all this and just wanting the codebreakers to atone or gtfo the Clans. The impostor is a liar and terrible cat, but as far as the average warrior knows, these codebreakers flaunted breaking the warrior code and weren't punished, and now everyone is suffering because of them. They think it's because of these cats that they had a harsh leaf-bare, all these bad things are happening, and that StarClan is refusing to talk to them on purpose. So for once, I agree with Scorchfur (of all cats...) about this. ShadowClan has even more reason to be terrified than the other Clans. In their eyes, their Clan has been through enough, and have only just now gotten back on its feet, and Dovewing's very presence and the way Tigerstar has favorited her is threatening that stability.
In fact, I'll admit that if I was a Clancat, I would think the same thing.
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 2, 2020 15:40:59 GMT -5
I think most of it stems from that StarClan is still radio silent, and if "Bramblestar" claims he knows how to get them back, then the Clan cats are really willing to do anything to hear from them again. Not because the Clan cats hate them or actually want them punished, they just see Bramblestar, who claims to be the last cat to have talked with StarClan and needing to punish their codebreakers, as the best way to get them back. I really don't think they're the "bad guys" in this scenario. The Clans' blind faith in their ancestors really just allows the Impostor to further his agenda, and he definitely knows the Clans will do anything to try and get StarClan back. That, and the warrior code itself is severely flawed in itself.
Considering the mess the Clans had to deal with during and after Darktail, I'm not surprised they just want their codebreakers to atone and have it over with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 20:02:10 GMT -5
I agree completely with everything you guys have said. It makes me glad that I'm not the only one who feels this way, and no one has gotten mad at me yet over my opinion lol
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 3, 2020 3:44:46 GMT -5
Honestly, I agree with you too. The saying Jayfeather used in a book before, pretty much saying what's the point of rules if everyone keeps breaking them, still sticks with me. It bothers me how so many cats lately have been breaking the code or abandoning it completely and it honestly leads into more trouble than it should. Bonus points if those said cats get rewarded despite those misdeeds and end up in positions of power. I can understand cats that were born from rulebreaking, they can't help that, but other cases, too me, aren't as excusable.
However, I'm not saying they should blindingly follow these rules, obviously not, there has to be a sense of morality, but there's also the fact that they need to uphold their pride as well. Because the difference between them and other cats is the warrior code. The warrior code does need to be improved, but I also think I've had enough of seeing characters treat it as nothing at this point. Back in the day, Firepaw was scared furless for breaking the code just for eating a mouse....now it just doesn't even feel the same?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 8:32:28 GMT -5
Honestly, I agree with you too. The saying Jayfeather used in a book before, pretty much saying what's the point of rules if everyone keeps breaking them, still sticks with me. It bothers me how so many cats lately have been breaking the code or abandoning it completely and it honestly leads into more trouble than it should. Bonus points if those said cats get rewarded despite those misdeeds and end up in positions of power. I can understand cats that were born from rulebreaking, they can't help that, but other cases, too me, aren't as excusable. However, I'm not saying they should blindingly follow these rules, obviously not, there has to be a sense of morality, but there's also the fact that they need to uphold their pride as well. Because the difference between them and other cats is the warrior code. The warrior code does need to be improved, but I also think I've had enough of seeing characters treat it as nothing at this point. Back in the day, Firepaw was scared furless for breaking the code just for eating a mouse....now it just doesn't even feel the same? That's so true, yeah, some of the rules are dumb, like the leader's word is the warrior code, and I don't fault Harespring and Kestrelflight at ALL for breaking that one, especially since it helped the clans, and Onestar broke the code first by refusing to help ShadowClan. I also don't blame Lionblaze and Jayfeather for being born because of their code-breaking parents. Same with any cats born of half-clan relationships, like Tigerheart and Dovewing's kits, and etc. Jayfeather said something like that too? I remember Littlecloud saying something similar in Squirrelflight's Hope. The medicine cats are getting tired of it all lol
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