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Post by Phoenix1410 on Feb 25, 2020 13:05:49 GMT -5
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Post by halogen on Feb 25, 2020 16:38:49 GMT -5
"Dovewing (bless her blue/green eyes)"
They know...
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Post by VIXENCLAW on Feb 25, 2020 17:37:24 GMT -5
"Dovewing (bless her blue/green eyes)" They know... Kate made an article on BlogClan a while ago discussing her eyes lol
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 26, 2020 12:36:30 GMT -5
Dovewing, brave? Lol. I like how in the same passage they think her abandoning her own birth clan is a good trait, oof. I do hope ShadowClan ends up in that battle with ThunderClan just so I can possibly see Dovewing get the snot beaten out of her by her former clanmates/kin tbh. It annoyed me that she kept trying to freely visit TC when she knowingly made the choice to betray and leave them over a guy, just yikes.
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Post by Hollyfall on Feb 26, 2020 12:42:40 GMT -5
Dovewing, brave? Lol. I like how in the same passage they think her abandoning her own birth clan is a good trait, oof. I do hope ShadowClan ends up in that battle with ThunderClan just so I can possibly see Dovewing get the snot beaten out of her by her former clanmates/kin tbh. It annoyed me that she kept trying to freely visit TC when she knowingly made the choice to betray and leave them over a guy, just yikes. Literally this. And the fandom defends her because "uwu she did it for love". She left her Clan without telling anybody and acts all hurt when they considered her a traitor. Why bother taking an oath of Clan loyalty if you won't honor it?
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Post by Brindlefern on Feb 26, 2020 16:02:38 GMT -5
It actually genuinely disturbs me that people seriously so desperately want Dovewing to die a horrible death or get beaten to oblivion as if she's the absolute more despicable being on the planet that murdered their child or something or is on a level of Tigerstar or something. Especially wanting her own fricking family to beat her up... for actually choosing her own happiness for once over the rules unlike everyone else???
What the **** people.
Ya'll officially need to chill the frick out, seriously, it's just a fictional cat. This fandom here when it comes to its hatred of her scares the hell out of me because of how aggressive they are with her. Even my sheer hatred for Spottedleaf never goes to the point to feel the need to escalate that far.
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Post by Woofzie on Feb 26, 2020 18:47:14 GMT -5
It actually genuinely disturbs me that people seriously so desperately want Dovewing to die a horrible death or get beaten to oblivion as if she's the absolute more despicable being on the planet that murdered their child or something or is on a level of Tigerstar or something. Especially wanting her own fricking family to beat her up... for actually choosing her own happiness for once over the rules unlike everyone else??? What the **** people. Ya'll officially need to chill the frick out, seriously, it's just a fictional cat. This fandom here when it comes to its hatred of her scares the hell out of me because of how aggressive they are with her. Even my sheer hatred for Spottedleaf never goes to the point to feel the need to escalate that far. This. Honestly the general hatred for Dovewing and the aggressive posts towards her is unnerving and that's one of the principal reasons I was terrified for years to say that I actually like her, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 19:26:06 GMT -5
I really don't understand why Dovewing gets SO much hate. Crowfeather and Leafpool were willing to leave their clans for their love, and Leafpool was a MEDICINE cat, and Dovewing was just a regular warrior. I know they didn't leave their clans, but if they hadn't heard of the badger attack, they would have been gone. Also, Graystripe left ThunderClan for a little while, and I haven't seen him get the amount of hatred that Dovewing does, I know he gets some, but not near as much.
Anyway, about the article, I find it funny that they called ThunderClan ShadowClan's most bitter rival, like they haven't heard of WindClan before lol. ShadowClan x WindClan has a rivalry that lasts through the ages.
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Post by halogen on Feb 26, 2020 23:53:19 GMT -5
I mean, Dovewing didn't choose to be born into ThunderClan, she didn't choose to be placed in a situation where she couldn't be with Tigerheart, and she always felt out of place in her Clan. What value does an oath of loyalty have if you are required to take it just because of where you are born, no matter what you feel or what you would prefer?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 26, 2020 23:54:12 GMT -5
Let's see, maybe people want a character to actually see the consequences of her actions instead of her running away from her problems and getting away with everything scott free after she dragged so many other characters into her childish behavior in the first place? It's literally the reality of the Warriors world. The article even mentions it?? "They might wonder how hard she’d fight in a battle against her former Clanmates and whether she could ever harm warriors who are kin." One day the possibility of her having to fight her former clanmates/kin will happen, whether she likes it or not, and she'll have to learn to deal with it. So like how about you take a chill pill. As you said, they're fictional cats, why are you getting so riled up over someone else opinions? I feel like you're blowing this way too out of proportion and that's honestly what's scary here. This isn't real life. They're not even humans. Someone hating a fictional cat character literally doesn't harm anyone else, yikes. I've literally seen people wish death on other characters all the time, and no one bats an eye. But when it comes to "poor little Dovewing" suddenly it's "scary and disturbing" lol. Yeah, some of us want to see Dovewing forced to fight against members of her former clan, so what? It's called drama.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Feb 27, 2020 0:01:14 GMT -5
Anyway, about the article, I find it funny that they called ThunderClan ShadowClan's most bitter rival, like they haven't heard of WindClan before lol. ShadowClan x WindClan has a rivalry that lasts through the ages. Yeah the "most bitter rivals" thing is funny. ThunderClan and ShadowClan are "bitter rivals" unless: a) ThunderClan is fighting with RiverClan over sunningrocks Onestar is being an idiot again c) There's an outside threat and all the clans are friends now I always found it weird that the Erins label ShadowClan as ThunderClan's rival when ThunderClan fights more often with the other clan they share a border with. Whenever they did fight ShadowClan, it was usually a fight against their evil leader and not the clan in its entirety. ShadowClan just seems like the clan all the other clans like to dunk on for being the evil/sneaky/smelly clan.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 27, 2020 0:07:04 GMT -5
I really don't understand why Dovewing gets SO much hate. Crowfeather and Leafpool were willing to leave their clans for their love, and Leafpool was a MEDICINE cat, and Dovewing was just a regular warrior. I know they didn't leave their clans, but if they hadn't heard of the badger attack, they would have been gone. Also, Graystripe left ThunderClan for a little while, and I haven't seen him get the amount of hatred that Dovewing does, I know he gets some, but not near as much. Anyway, about the article, I find it funny that they called ThunderClan ShadowClan's most bitter rival, like they haven't heard of WindClan before lol. ShadowClan x WindClan has a rivalry that lasts through the ages. That's because both Graystripe and Leafpool got some sort of punishments. Also, lol, I know both of them get a good amount of hate too, but no it won't be as much as Dovewing. Because her unnecessary drama was over 12 books, a novella and an SE, neither Gray or even Leaf held a candle to that forbidden romance disaster. Graystripe lost Silverstream, and was never loyal to RiverClan anyways. Leafpool was persecuted for moons by her own clan and lost her ranking for a while. And neither of their forbidden romances lasted that long. Dovewing got away with everything she pretty much did, and no one can even question her cause she's the mate of the leader. Which is ironic, cause it's more glaringly obvious now that FakeBramble is challenging codebreakers. Heck, even Tigerheart was at least punished, he lost his father, and his clan fell apart in his absence because he was too busy chasing after the mother of his kits. Not to mention, the article feels like they're trying to completely excuse Dove's naive and dumb decisions she's made because of her romance arc, which clogged 80% of her character.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 0:10:13 GMT -5
Anyway, about the article, I find it funny that they called ThunderClan ShadowClan's most bitter rival, like they haven't heard of WindClan before lol. ShadowClan x WindClan has a rivalry that lasts through the ages. Yeah the "most bitter rivals" thing is funny. ThunderClan and ShadowClan are "bitter rivals" unless: a) ThunderClan is fighting with RiverClan over sunningrocks Onestar is being an idiot again c) There's an outside threat and all the clans are friends now I always found it weird that the Erins label ShadowClan as ThunderClan's rival when ThunderClan fights more often with the other clan they share a border with. Whenever they did fight ShadowClan, it was usually a fight against their evil leader and not the clan in its entirety. ShadowClan just seems like the clan all the other clans like to dunk on for being the evil/sneaky/smelly clan. That's so true! Maybe it's because they're the two most well-known clans or something, I don't know, or maybe because ThunderClan is the "good" clan and ShadowClan is the "bad" clan, and the other three are just the other ones. But really, has WindClan and ShadowClan ever teamed up for a battle? Not including huge battles, where ALL the clans teamed up together. Also, there are no forbidden relationships between ShadowClan and WindClan. There are.. Graystripe (ThunderClan) x Silverstream (RiverClan) Fallowtail (RiverClan) x Reedfeather (WindClan) Leafpool (ThunderClan) x Crowfeather (WindClan) Tigerheart (ShadowClan) x Dovewing (WasThunderClan) And many more, but no ShadowClan x WindClan...but, is there ShadowClan x RiverClan? Is ShadowClan actually the best clan about not getting involved in relationships with cats from other clans?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 0:18:38 GMT -5
I really don't understand why Dovewing gets SO much hate. Crowfeather and Leafpool were willing to leave their clans for their love, and Leafpool was a MEDICINE cat, and Dovewing was just a regular warrior. I know they didn't leave their clans, but if they hadn't heard of the badger attack, they would have been gone. Also, Graystripe left ThunderClan for a little while, and I haven't seen him get the amount of hatred that Dovewing does, I know he gets some, but not near as much. Anyway, about the article, I find it funny that they called ThunderClan ShadowClan's most bitter rival, like they haven't heard of WindClan before lol. ShadowClan x WindClan has a rivalry that lasts through the ages. That's because both Graystripe and Leafpool got some sort of punishments. Also, lol, I know both of them get a good amount of hate too, but no it won't be as much as Dovewing. Because her unnecessary drama was over 12 books, a novella and an SE, neither Gray or even Leaf held a candle to that forbidden romance disaster. Graystripe lost Silverstream, and was never loyal to RiverClan anyways. Leafpool was persecuted for moons by her own clan and lost her ranking for a while. And neither of their forbidden romances lasted that long. Dovewing got away with everything she pretty much did, and no one can even question her cause she's the mate of the leader. Which is ironic, cause it's more glaringly obvious now that FakeBramble is challenging codebreakers. Heck, even Tigerheart was at least punished, he lost his father, and his clan fell apart in his absence because he was too busy chasing after the mother of his kits. Holy crap, it was that many books? 0_o Those are really good points. You're right, Dovewing has gotten off easy compared to those other guys, like, Yellowfang had an evil son, Graystripe lost Silverstream, Crowfeather has to be deputy of dumb WindClan, just kidding, I guess Breezepelt is his punishment? Bluestar's Mosskit died, Reedfeather was almost drowned to death by Hailstar. I mean, it hasn't been an easy road for Dovewing, especially with what's happening in TBC, but yeah, she has gotten off pretty lightly compared to everyone else who has been in half clan relationships. I wish that everyone would get equal punishments for committing the same crime, but not anything TOO severe, you know?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 27, 2020 0:36:11 GMT -5
That's because both Graystripe and Leafpool got some sort of punishments. Also, lol, I know both of them get a good amount of hate too, but no it won't be as much as Dovewing. Because her unnecessary drama was over 12 books, a novella and an SE, neither Gray or even Leaf held a candle to that forbidden romance disaster. Graystripe lost Silverstream, and was never loyal to RiverClan anyways. Leafpool was persecuted for moons by her own clan and lost her ranking for a while. And neither of their forbidden romances lasted that long. Dovewing got away with everything she pretty much did, and no one can even question her cause she's the mate of the leader. Which is ironic, cause it's more glaringly obvious now that FakeBramble is challenging codebreakers. Heck, even Tigerheart was at least punished, he lost his father, and his clan fell apart in his absence because he was too busy chasing after the mother of his kits. Holy crap, it was that many books? 0_o Those are really good points. You're right, Dovewing has gotten off easy compared to those other guys, like, Yellowfang had an evil son, Graystripe lost Silverstream, Crowfeather has to be deputy of dumb WindClan, just kidding, I guess Breezepelt is his punishment? Bluestar's Mosskit died, Reedfeather was almost drowned to death by Hailstar. I mean, it hasn't been an easy road for Dovewing, especially with what's happening in TBC, but yeah, she has gotten off pretty lightly compared to everyone else who has been in half clan relationships. I wish that everyone would get equal punishments for committing the same crime, but not anything TOO severe, you know? Like, it doesn't even have to be a severe punishment. At least something that makes her realize the weight of her actions. This is why I've come to be neutral/like toward Twigbranch. She really did start redeeming herself later in AVoS. She has a moment where she realizes how selfish her actions were, and how she's been affecting Violetshine this whole time. But it takes Violetshine being the one to leave for once for her to realize that, and the weight of her actions for switching clans. I liked that. It was good character building on her part. Add that to the fact she stood up to Finleap, and finally stuck with her decisions to remain in TC, she wasn't that bad. Same for Graystripe and Leafpool. Both of them earned the respect of their clanmates back. Graystripe was even deputy at one point, was a good warrior in general under Firestar, and was honorably able to retire eventually. He's had notable feats like saving Sorrel from Darkstripe, helping cats escape from Twolegs, and even now he's going to get his own SE, so he has more to give as a character despite not being in his prime anymore. With Leafpool, although I don't like that she stepped down from her position, I tolerate it because she still dealt with the blunt of the repercussions for her actions. She eventually returned to being a medicine cat, so her skills weren't wasted, and helped trained the next medicine cat generations like Jay and Alder. She's actually dealt with the Crow breakup much more maturely than Crowfeather ever did tbh, while also still supporting her sister with her own relationship issues. She's the voice of reason in high tensions, has no problems helping other clans in need, and even defending them against blasphemy at gathering. Both of them have redeemable qualities as their own characters and not just in their romances. Unfortunately the same can not be said for Dovewing, which is disappointing. At the moment in the story, the only things she's contributing is the romance factor of her character, which had already been the majority of the focus for over two arcs. And the only plot relevancy, besides that, is literally her not being punished for being a codebreaker in the first place, again, very ironic. I think what bugs me the most is the scene where Bumble and Cherry call her out for constantly trying to visit ThunderClan with ulterior motives of wanting to see her sister all the time. There's a time and a place, and she needs to realize that. Graystripe never got the luxury to visit his children in RiverClan willy nilly, so I don't understand why Dovewing should be given special circumstances. And as Jayfeather once spoke about, honestly what is the point of having rules anymore if every cat just keeps breaking them anyways?
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Post by Moonblazer on Feb 27, 2020 0:43:10 GMT -5
Maybe it’s becoming insufferable to hear about Dovewing and her garbage romance over and over again after it ruined so many good characters and traits. That is certainly why I’m rolling my eyes at this article, which is clearly ignoring all the harm her actions cause and acting as if basically forcing Tigerheart to choose between her or his dying clan and putting unborn kits in alot of danger means nothing.
I think there’s a reason Dovewing gets dislike by some of the fandom, because her, her decisions and her romance is so constantly shoved down our throats at this point. Do I wish her death and beatings? No. Do I dislike her choices and her annoying character? Yes.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 27, 2020 0:54:53 GMT -5
God, this reminds me of when people were excusing Lionblaze's actions because he's a "funny" guy. Now people are actually calling Dovewing's actions just a bit of excusable "messiness" lol. Like there's nothing wrong with liking messy characters, but messy characters can still be written dumbly. Also, I'm not sure why people are saying we're wishing "death" upon her...cause funny enough I don't see anyone even mentioning that except for ones accusing us of it. I'm not wishing death on her, but I could care less if she did die. I honestly wouldn't care at this point. And really the same can go for her kits and Tigertwo. Tigertwo shouldn't even have been leader, he didn't deserve it. Two of her kits have zero personality and are just taking up breathing space. While the last one is suffocating the limelight, makes me hope the spoilers are real, I'd rather have a Squirrelflight POV anyways. Even if he didn't bite the dust, I doubt he'll recover so quickly from a rough play like that, lol. Maybe Dove and Tiger will finally be punished for something. Although, I do want to still see the Shadow vs Thunder fight, which by the looks of it, is going to be unavoidable. And while we're on the subject, I never did understand why the notion that "Dovewing was never happy choosing clan loyalty over love" comes up in discussions like these sometimes. Like, no one is saying she can't switch clans, but it's when she drags everyone else down with her unnecessarily, then yeah...it becomes annoying. Especially in THS, oh StarClan...that was just one big ol' filler book with a she-cat running around with bees for brains.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 3:50:31 GMT -5
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I don't feel like Dovewing deserves punishment. The "no forbidden romance" rule is a stupid rule. If we're talking about whether or not a cat deserves punishment it's worth it to ask "why". Why does she need to be punished? Who did she hurt? did she hurt them on purpose? Has she learned her lesson?
why: breaking a rule that's morally objectionable, in my opinion she should be able to put this behind her. who did she hurt: idk, Ivypool? Bumblestripe slightly? maybe her parents by leaving. did she do it on purpose, or for the sake of hurting others? nope. has she learned her lesson: In my opinion, prooobably? This one is a little hard to answer because she got what she wanted in the end, even if it came at a price (needing to move to a Clan she didn't want to move to, losing her close relationship with her family in Thunderclan). Personally I believe she's learned quite a bit in terms of maturity, decision making, and seeing the other side of things. I don't think she's likely to repeat past mistakes.
so, IMO, based on all of that, she doesn't need punishment. If a person does something wrong and is genuinely remorseful of their actions and makes a genuine effort to be better and not repeat past mistakes then... what else do they need to do? Dovewing has already made an attempt to "atone" on her own accord. Tigerstar didn't want her to but she did anyway, until she got dragged back to the Clan because they were afraid she was in danger. She fully knows what she did wrong, she states this many times that she needed to make amends. I'm not sure what else needs to happen in order for her to "see the weight of her actions." like, she knows. She actively wanted to atone and tried to do so. It was just interrupted by Shadowsight and Tigerstar's paranoia.
and besides allllll of that, the expectation that cats in forbidden relationships need to be punished seems to only come from the fact that all the PAST cats in forbidden relationships have been punished. If Yellowfang, Leafpool, Graystripe etc didn't have such a rough time, would Dovewing still be expected to? It just reminds me of people who are like "we shouldn't forgive student loan debt because I had to pay it in the past! It's not fair!" Just kinda makes me role my eyes. Like, sorry you had to go through that, but that doesn't mean everyone else needs to suffer through the same thing.
I'm just curious what the "punish Dovewing" people would want Dovewing to do in order to redeem herself. So you want her to be punished, what could she do to make up for it? Something tells me being placed on tick duty for a month isn't really sufficient lol
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Post by Moonblazer on Feb 27, 2020 10:10:33 GMT -5
For me it’s not about punishment. It’s about her understanding that she made her bed and has to lay in it. She can’t go walking over to Thunderclan to visit the kin she left behind whenever she feels like it, nor can she just expect everything and everyone to be fine and happy when she said nothing to anybody about leaving in the first place. It’s the same reason why Twigbranch got alot of crap even though personally I believe she was far more valid in switching clans than Dovewing was.
If Dovewing chose Shadowclan, that’s fine and dandy, but I don’t want to hear her expecting sympathy or support from cats she quite literally abandoned.
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Post by platinum blond death on Feb 27, 2020 14:10:06 GMT -5
Dovewing doesn't deserve death, in my opinion. That being said, she needs to understand that she is a member of ShadowClan now. Borders exist, and she cannot visit her kin in ThunderClan whenever she wants to. I think she should've expected a hostile reaction when she announced she was leaving. She does get off a bit easier; no one dies and she gets to have her family. I'm not saying she hasn't been through a lot, she has. But that does not mean she can disregard borders and rules. Running off because of a dream was kind of stupid. Forcing her mate to choose between her and his Clan that was in shambles was not cool. Even now, she seems to be a bit immature. She has matured quite a bit during TBC, but does she understand that she can't cross borders whenever she pleases?
As a whole, I consider forbidden romance kind of stupid. Or at least, how it's written. It's overused. If done right I think it works, but otherwise it's gotten to the point where I roll my eyes if I sense a forbidden romance. In the end I don't think it's worth it. You can't predict when or if others will find out. It leads to heartbreak. Is it worth it to love when it could end in tragedy? And if there's kits, it's even more complicated. Love is powerful, but it doesn't shield against everything.
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Post by Hollyfall on Feb 27, 2020 14:37:07 GMT -5
If Dovewing wants to join ShadowClan to be with Tigerstar, that's ultimately her choice to do so. If she wants to be with Tigerstar II and her kids, that's fine, I can understand that. However, she did just leave her Clan without so much of telling her birth Clan as to what she's doing. Granted, she didn't even tell Tigerheart she was expecting kits and give him a ridiculous ultimatum of basically "me and the unborn kits I just told you about, or the Clan you're essentially keeping together". Then after she joins ShadowClan, she acts all hurt when ThunderClan doesn't like her or considers her a traitor, and she expected them to be all friendly towards her when she supposedly visits? Graystripe, who left ThunderClan for similar reasons, at least told ThunderClan and didn't expect much sympathy nor trust when he returned.
I think the main reason people dislike Dovewing is that her actions don't seem to have any consquences. Her actions seem to be justified in "oh, she did it for love/so she could be happy!". I don't think anyone's saying she can't be happy nor she's not allowed to be, but that her just ditching her birth Clan and then having it justified by the narrative and by others. She betrayed her Clan (which she swore an OATH to) and got pregnant with some half-clan kits and expected everything to be rainbows and sunshine afterwards.
I'm not saying people aren't allowed to like Dovewing nor should someone feel bad for liking her; you're than entitled to like her character! I don't mean to say you can't like her character, and I don't believe anyone else does. However, I believe the frustrations occur when she broke the code and her actions are excused because "uwu she gets to be happy, it's okay she betrayed her Clan!". You broke the vow you made for ThunderClan. Yeah you didn't ask to be born in said Clan, but honestly? Nobody else does.
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Post by halogen on Feb 27, 2020 16:38:52 GMT -5
I think as a character and writing-wise she is annoying because I'm sick of it always being about romance, but morally her actions really aren't that bad. Sometimes I feel like people on this site get the mortality of characters' action mixed up with how well-written their character arcs are (in both ways, honestly).
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Post by Card against Humanity on Feb 27, 2020 16:59:53 GMT -5
wanting dovewing to face some amount of repercussion for her actions =/= "despising" her or "wanting her to die a horrible death" lol. especially when in the past characters who got into forbidden relationships actually had to suffer consequences and didn't have everything they did excused with "they're just in love!!!"
edit: also seconding moonblazer's point. the dovetiger romance should have ended in oots and the fact that it was shoved back into the narrative for so long and made so many characters annoying is a big part of the reason why people don't like her actions
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 18:44:29 GMT -5
Holy crap, it was that many books? 0_o Those are really good points. You're right, Dovewing has gotten off easy compared to those other guys, like, Yellowfang had an evil son, Graystripe lost Silverstream, Crowfeather has to be deputy of dumb WindClan, just kidding, I guess Breezepelt is his punishment? Bluestar's Mosskit died, Reedfeather was almost drowned to death by Hailstar. I mean, it hasn't been an easy road for Dovewing, especially with what's happening in TBC, but yeah, she has gotten off pretty lightly compared to everyone else who has been in half clan relationships. I wish that everyone would get equal punishments for committing the same crime, but not anything TOO severe, you know? Like, it doesn't even have to be a severe punishment. At least something that makes her realize the weight of her actions. This is why I've come to be neutral/like toward Twigbranch. She really did start redeeming herself later in AVoS. She has a moment where she realizes how selfish her actions were, and how she's been affecting Violetshine this whole time. But it takes Violetshine being the one to leave for once for her to realize that, and the weight of her actions for switching clans. I liked that. It was good character building on her part. Add that to the fact she stood up to Finleap, and finally stuck with her decisions to remain in TC, she wasn't that bad. Same for Graystripe and Leafpool. Both of them earned the respect of their clanmates back. Graystripe was even deputy at one point, was a good warrior in general under Firestar, and was honorably able to retire eventually. He's had notable feats like saving Sorrel from Darkstripe, helping cats escape from Twolegs, and even now he's going to get his own SE, so he has more to give as a character despite not being in his prime anymore. With Leafpool, although I don't like that she stepped down from her position, I tolerate it because she still dealt with the blunt of the repercussions for her actions. She eventually returned to being a medicine cat, so her skills weren't wasted, and helped trained the next medicine cat generations like Jay and Alder. She's actually dealt with the Crow breakup much more maturely than Crowfeather ever did tbh, while also still supporting her sister with her own relationship issues. She's the voice of reason in high tensions, has no problems helping other clans in need, and even defending them against blasphemy at gathering. Both of them have redeemable qualities as their own characters and not just in their romances. Unfortunately the same can not be said for Dovewing, which is disappointing. At the moment in the story, the only things she's contributing is the romance factor of her character, which had already been the majority of the focus for over two arcs. And the only plot relevancy, besides that, is literally her not being punished for being a codebreaker in the first place, again, very ironic. I think what bugs me the most is the scene where Bumble and Cherry call her out for constantly trying to visit ThunderClan with ulterior motives of wanting to see her sister all the time. There's a time and a place, and she needs to realize that. Graystripe never got the luxury to visit his children in RiverClan willy nilly, so I don't understand why Dovewing should be given special circumstances. And as Jayfeather once spoke about, honestly what is the point of having rules anymore if every cat just keeps breaking them anyways? You know, I didn't even think about that, like Graystripe and Leafpool proving themselves to be loyal warriors after the fact, and having a lot of redeemable scenes. I still like Dovewing, and I don't wish her any ill will, but I can completely understand where you're coming from.
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