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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 17:42:00 GMT -5
I was thinking about Tigerclaw,and it got me thinking about how bizarre StarClan is.
Okay... so, they know this guy was doomed to be evil since birth, they begged Pinestar to kill him, they know he killed a lot of cats to get to where he is, he's not even a real ShadowClan cat, and yet they decide to make him leader of ShadowClan?
Yet, when it comes to Nightstar, they didn't make him leader because... some evil guy, Brokenstar, who I think they knew was also evil from birth, still had his lives?
It seems like StarClan has power, they cover the moon when cats fight at gatherings, they more than likely dropped a tree on Mudclaw, but... when it comes to evil guys becoming leader...they're just like, "Well, there's nothing we can do!"
Those cats who gave Tigerclaw and Brokenstar their nine lives need to go sit in a corner and think about what they've done.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2020 17:56:58 GMT -5
Starclan seems bound by the the rules of greater powers, rules that they can't really break. If a leader comes up and there is no other candidate, then they are compelled to give them lives. Nightstar on the other hand had Brokenstar technically running around as leader, which messed him up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 18:04:19 GMT -5
Starclan seems bound by the the rules of greater powers, rules that they can't really break. If a leader comes up and there is no other candidate, then they are compelled to give them lives. Nightstar on the other hand had Brokenstar technically running around as leader, which messed him up. Really? I thought StarClan was the all powerful, but then again, there's Rock, and maybe more like him, so who knows?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2020 18:08:14 GMT -5
Starclan seems bound by the the rules of greater powers, rules that they can't really break. If a leader comes up and there is no other candidate, then they are compelled to give them lives. Nightstar on the other hand had Brokenstar technically running around as leader, which messed him up. Really? I thought StarClan was the all powerful, but then again, there's Rock, and maybe more like him, so who knows? The current arc definitely proves they're far from all powerful. The Dark Forest was also planning to defeat them and this was taken as a serious threat that needed to be fought rather than just swept away with magic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 18:12:05 GMT -5
Really? I thought StarClan was the all powerful, but then again, there's Rock, and maybe more like him, so who knows? The current arc definitely proves they're far from all powerful. The Dark Forest was also planning to defeat them and this was taken as a serious threat that needed to be fought rather than just swept away with magic. That's true Omen of the Stars made it seem like The Dark Forest is even more powerful than StarClan, because they can visit cats whenever they want, and actually harm them in their dreams. In the first series though, it made them seem like they were the most powerful ever. StarClan is just odd, and they seem to do more harm than good most of the time
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2020 18:18:51 GMT -5
The current arc definitely proves they're far from all powerful. The Dark Forest was also planning to defeat them and this was taken as a serious threat that needed to be fought rather than just swept away with magic. That's true Omen of the Stars made it seem like The Dark Forest is even more powerful than StarClan, because they can visit cats whenever they want, and actually harm them in their dreams. In the first series though, it made them seem like they were the most powerful ever. StarClan is just odd, and they seem to do more harm than good most of the time The Dark Forest needs a cat's consent to take them to the Dark Forest, they've never been able to just assassinate cats who didn't want to be there by jumping them in their dreams. Consent was always required, that's why Tawnypelt could just say "no" and that was the end of that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 18:23:25 GMT -5
That's true Omen of the Stars made it seem like The Dark Forest is even more powerful than StarClan, because they can visit cats whenever they want, and actually harm them in their dreams. In the first series though, it made them seem like they were the most powerful ever. StarClan is just odd, and they seem to do more harm than good most of the time The Dark Forest needs a cat's consent to take them to the Dark Forest, they've never been able to just assassinate cats who didn't want to be there by jumping them in their dreams. Consent was always required, that's why Tawnypelt could just say "no" and that was the end of that. Oh really? Yeah, that does make sense
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Post by halogen on Jan 31, 2020 22:49:38 GMT -5
Well, Sunstar only got one life subtracted with Pinestar, so I think the issue isn't as much that Brokenstar exists but that Nightstar was responsible for driving him and his deputy out. The nine lives for the leaders seems largely to stop the political situation from being unstable with leaders overthrowing and killing each other all the time, but of course you can get around that by just exiling the leader even when they have lives left - so I think StarClan will not give lives to someone who took power by force out of principle and fear of what it would lead to, even if Nightstar had a perfectly good reason to do so and was a much better leader than Brokenstar.
On the Dark Forest thing, I feel like the story would have worked way better if they were more powerful, i.e they didn't require consent, and they could see what was going on in the Clans well enough like StarClan could - that way, Ivypool would have an actual reason for being so hesitant to do actual spying. If she talks about what's going on out loud, the DF will know, and kill her, and she won't be able to just choose not to come. It could have set up a situation where Ivypool is biding her time, waiting until she knows all that she can to tell it to her Classmates, even knowing that will probably mean her death the very next night. But instead we just have forced drama of Ivypool not telling anyone what's going on for no good reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 22:57:37 GMT -5
Well, Sunstar only got one life subtracted with Pinestar, so I think the issue isn't as much that Brokenstar exists but that Nightstar was responsible for driving him and his deputy out. The nine lives for the leaders seems largely to stop the political situation from being unstable with leaders overthrowing and killing each other all the time, but of course you can get around that by just exiling the leader even when they have lives left - so I think StarClan will not give lives to someone who took power by force out of principle and fear of what it would lead to, even if Nightstar had a perfectly good reason to do so and was a much better leader than Brokenstar. On the Dark Forest thing, I feel like the story would have worked way better if they were more powerful, i.e they didn't require consent, and they could see what was going on in the Clans well enough like StarClan could - that way, Ivypool would have an actual reason for being so hesitant to do actual spying. If she talks about what's going on out loud, the DF will know, and kill her, and she won't be able to just choose not to come. It could have set up a situation where Ivypool is biding her time, waiting until she knows all that she can to tell it to her Classmates, even knowing that will probably mean her death the very next night. But instead we just have forced drama of Ivypool not telling anyone what's going on for no good reason. Those are really good points I just find it ridiculous lol
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2020 23:05:41 GMT -5
Well, Sunstar only got one life subtracted with Pinestar, so I think the issue isn't as much that Brokenstar exists but that Nightstar was responsible for driving him and his deputy out. The nine lives for the leaders seems largely to stop the political situation from being unstable with leaders overthrowing and killing each other all the time, but of course you can get around that by just exiling the leader even when they have lives left - so I think StarClan will not give lives to someone who took power by force out of principle and fear of what it would lead to, even if Nightstar had a perfectly good reason to do so and was a much better leader than Brokenstar. On the Dark Forest thing, I feel like the story would have worked way better if they were more powerful, i.e they didn't require consent, and they could see what was going on in the Clans well enough like StarClan could - that way, Ivypool would have an actual reason for being so hesitant to do actual spying. If she talks about what's going on out loud, the DF will know, and kill her, and she won't be able to just choose not to come. It could have set up a situation where Ivypool is biding her time, waiting until she knows all that she can to tell it to her Classmates, even knowing that will probably mean her death the very next night. But instead we just have forced drama of Ivypool not telling anyone what's going on for no good reason. Your version of the Dark Forest just seems them kill everyone in the clans with impunity with no need to form an army since they can just gank and slaughter each cat in their dream all at once. Making them that powerful would break the setting
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Post by halogen on Feb 1, 2020 12:34:11 GMT -5
Well, Sunstar only got one life subtracted with Pinestar, so I think the issue isn't as much that Brokenstar exists but that Nightstar was responsible for driving him and his deputy out. The nine lives for the leaders seems largely to stop the political situation from being unstable with leaders overthrowing and killing each other all the time, but of course you can get around that by just exiling the leader even when they have lives left - so I think StarClan will not give lives to someone who took power by force out of principle and fear of what it would lead to, even if Nightstar had a perfectly good reason to do so and was a much better leader than Brokenstar. On the Dark Forest thing, I feel like the story would have worked way better if they were more powerful, i.e they didn't require consent, and they could see what was going on in the Clans well enough like StarClan could - that way, Ivypool would have an actual reason for being so hesitant to do actual spying. If she talks about what's going on out loud, the DF will know, and kill her, and she won't be able to just choose not to come. It could have set up a situation where Ivypool is biding her time, waiting until she knows all that she can to tell it to her Classmates, even knowing that will probably mean her death the very next night. But instead we just have forced drama of Ivypool not telling anyone what's going on for no good reason. Your version of the Dark Forest just seems them kill everyone in the clans with impunity with no need to form an army since they can just gank and slaughter each cat in their dream all at once. Making them that powerful would break the setting Yeah, I wasn't clear enough on how I was picturing it would work. It would basically work like the DF could visit their classmates and try to entice them like Hawkfrost did in the meadow, and at that point they could still choose not to and just leave or wake up. But once a cat chooses willingly to go into the main part of the forest, there's no turning back. So random cats can't. be killed by the Dark Forest, but the actual apprentices are still risking their lives if they betray the DF, and thus Ivypool has an actual reason to hold back on the spying.
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