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Post by ᴄᴏɴɪ﹣ғᴇʀᴏᴜs on Nov 19, 2019 7:19:37 GMT -5
What it says on the tin. Half inspired by the GraySilver thread, other half inspired by the sheer fact that there are so many relationships that could have been handled better in the books.
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Nov 19, 2019 7:59:19 GMT -5
Fallen leaves x Hollyleaf! I would ship them but in Hollyleafs novella, they don’t really seem to connect. Fallen leaves seems distant and quiet, but gets upset whenever Hollyleaf leaves? I would have had him being more emotionally supportive, more emotional himself, a more visible bond/connection, making the decision to return to TC harder.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 8:15:11 GMT -5
Ivypool x Fernsong
I love this ship, and it's one of my favorite in the series, but I'm extremely curious to know how it all started.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 10:34:44 GMT -5
So many to name, but here are the main ones. Not all of these are underdeveloped, but I do think they could've been handled better. I take issue with DotC the most, especially the main ones, so here's one case in how I would've written Thunderstar x Violet Dawn, as well as Violet Dawn in general: The events of The Blazing Star stay mostly the same except Violet Dawn is also one of One Eye's daughters, specifically his youngest one, while Star Flower was from an older litter. They both spy on the Early Settlers, though Violet Dawn is alot friendlier towards them than Star Flower is. Thunder in particular gets close to Violet Dawn, though none of the other cats trust them, especially Clear Sky and Lightning Tail. After it's revealed that Star Flower and Violet Dawn had been spying on them for One Eye, Star Flower fights for her father while Violet Dawn secretly gives the moor and forest cats advice on how to defeat One Eye.
After One Eye is killed, Star Flower flees and urges Violet Dawn to follow, but the younger cat decides to stay with the Early Settlers instead. This as well as her father's death causes Star Flower to swear revenge on the Early Settlers.
A Forest Divided continues with Violet Dawn's story arc as she tries to redeem herself in the eyes of the other cats. Even though she helped them out in the end, many still don't trust her. When leaf-bare hits, she goes with Thunder to join Clear Sky, who is currently obsessed with trying to complete Fluttering Bird's message. He also forms a sort of bond with Violet Dawn as they both learn to better themselves to the others, though it never goes anywhere past friendship. Thunder still leaves however, and Violet Dawn goes with him, slightly saddened to say goodbye to the only cat she felt actually understood her.
Meanwhile, prey has become scarce and rogues have been scented in all the territories. The cats suspect it's Star Flower who's trying to starve them out, and this later turns out to be correct. She reveals herself to Violet Dawn a few times and tries to convince her little sister to join her, but Violet Dawn refuses every time. It's only later does Violet Dawn realize that Star Flower genuinely wants what's left of her family beside her, much like Clear Sky. She begins to pity her sister, but doesn't regret her decision to stay.
The next time they meet, Violet Dawn tries to convince Star Flower to give up her revenge by reminding her of how much of a monster One Eye was and join the Settlers so they can be a family again; it seems to almost work, but the Settlers who are still barely fit attack the golden cat instead. Star Flower thinks this was part of Violet Dawn's plan and only becomes more angry. She manages to escape, and the Settlers are angry with Violet Dawn for meeting up with Star Flower at all.
By the end of the book, the prey has returned and every cat has settled to the place where they belong. For Violet Dawn, it's beside Thunder in his new territory, but she still can't ease her mind, not when Star Flower is still out there and obsessed with vengeance. Her suspicions turn out to be correct, when, in the dead of night, the rogues attack all four camps. The Settlers are all forced to flee to River Ripple's island, having lost their new homes.
In Path of Stars, the cats try to make the best of their situation, but everyone just gets irritated with being around so many cats. At some point, it's revealed that Star Flower had no idea about the attack, since it would've meant putting Violet Dawn in danger as well (even though she had no qualms with starving the other cats while her sister was still a member), but she doesn't exactly show any pity towards the other cats, either. She reveals that Slash and Snake were behind it after overthrowing her as leader, and Fern backs up her claim. They form a very shaky alliance, but Star Flower promises to leave them alone for good if they help her get rid of Slash and Snake. And yes, Slash is meant to be a bigger threat in this scenario rather than the underwhelming villain he was in canon.
The Settlers get their homes back by the end of the story, of course, and Gray Wing still dies after naming the Clans with his kits. Slash and Snake are both killed by the end of it, while Fern and a few others join the Clans. As for Star Flower, she either dies saving Violet Dawn from Slash or at least gets critically injured while doing so, which would lead her to joining SkyClan since Clear Sky is the only one just barely willing to take her in; they end up eventually becoming mates in this scenario, but it's way down the line.
With Skystar and Bright Stream, just have Bright Stream either live longer or give birth early after fighting the birds and have her be Thunder's mother instead before dying. Maybe Storm can still be in it, but there's no romance between her and Clear Sky whatsoever, or it at least wouldn't be love at first sight.
With Gray Wing x Slate, maybe just introduce Slate in at least the third book. She comforts Gray Wing after Turtle Tail dies, and they then slowly fall in love and become mates.
With the other arcs, I already said my thoughts on Gray x Silver, and Fire x Spotted really should've just been a cute little crush on Firepaw's part that he eventually grows out of and not have it be a mutual feeling of love. Cinderpelt's love for Firestar also wouldn't be there.
Have Brambleclaw and Squirrelflight have better communication with each other, while Feathertail could either simply see Crowpaw as a little brother and/or realize that she's more in love with the idea of loving a cat from another Clan, kinda like how Stormfur was towards Squirrelpaw. Similarly with Crowfeather and Leafpool, I think I'd mostly keep it as it is, I'd just include more scenes of them interacting on the Great Journey and maybe have the two eventually realize that what they had wasn't necessarily love.
With Lionblaze's relationships, his initial crush on Heatherpaw would be non-existent, or else expand on it while maybe making her relation to Onestar relevant either way, like maybe the two are aware of his and Firestar's past friendship and want to try to mend that until things go downhill for the two apprentices as well. Him liking Cinderheart would be at least implied in PoT, but it doesn't really start until after Hollyleaf runs away and the two comfort each other afterwards. Cinderheart also wouldn't be possessed by Cinderpelt in this scenario, and wouldn't be as freaked out about Lionblaze's power as she was in canon, though I suppose it could still complicate things if she still has a strong belief in destiny. Or maybe Lionblaze just doesn't tell her until just before the Great Battle.
Dovewing's arc in my rewrite would put less emphasis on romance, though she'd still like Tigerheart and move to ShadowClan much sooner, specifically after the Great Battle after realizing how unhappy she was in ThunderClan, but they don't officially become mates until several seasons later, after she's had time to focus on herself and gotten to really know him better.
I always thought that Violetshine's feelings for Tree is RoF bordered to an almost unhealthy obsession since they both knew Needletail and Violetshine seems to have attachment issues in general due to her upbringing. What I would do to improve this is probably introduce Tree earlier, like maybe Twigpaw could've even run into him after she goes to find SkyClan. He meets Violetpaw after they get back to ThunderClan with SkyClan in tow and the two quickly start a friendship, and he accompanies her to find the missing SkyClan cats in order to prove himself. By the time they fall in love, either the way Violetshine is handling it would be addressed or it simply wouldn't be there; either way, the relationship would've eventually developed more naturally by the time they finally become mates.
Alderheart and Velvet, though cute, should've just been friends without any romance involved and they stay so after they part ways.
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Post by ᴄᴏɴɪ﹣ғᴇʀᴏᴜs on Nov 19, 2019 10:56:15 GMT -5
I frankly agree with all of you - especially 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on TNP relationships. One that's been on my mind- Beechfur x Gorsetail Supposedly, Gorsetail's kits were fathered by Beechfur of RiverClan. This makes one of the few half-clan relationships that weren't exposed in any manner, which would be interesting. This was only confirmed (or more like accepted - I think Beechfur was a suggestion made by a fan) by one of the authors and this has so much that could be explored. I wish the Erins could focus on these characters in novellas, really. The ones who have stories but don't get spotlights in the main series.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 10:59:40 GMT -5
I frankly agree with all of you - especially 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on TNP relationships. One that's been on my mind- Beechfur x Gorsetail Supposedly, Gorsetail's kits were fathered by Beechfur of RiverClan. This makes one of the few half-clan relationships that weren't exposed in any manner, which would be interesting. This was only confirmed (or more like accepted - I think Beechfur was a suggestion made by a fan) by one of the authors and this has so much that could be explored. I wish the Erins could focus on these characters in novellas, really. The ones who have stories but don't get spotlights in the main series. It would have been interesting to see more of the Beechfur x Gorsetail scenario, especially since it happened in the same series, where everyone was freaking out about Leafpool x Crowfeather's kits being half-clan. Especially since Gorsetail is from WindClan, the same clan that Crowfeather is from. Speaking of Gorsetail, I wonder if Leaftail was her back up WindClan mate? They seemed really close in Crowfeather's Trial.
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Post by ᴄᴏɴɪ﹣ғᴇʀᴏᴜs on Nov 19, 2019 11:03:51 GMT -5
Not entirely sure, but I heard some speculating that Weaselfur or someone was her WindClan mate?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 11:06:12 GMT -5
Not entirely sure, but I heard some speculating that Weaselfur or someone was her WindClan mate? Really? That's interesting, I guess I could see that too
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 13:00:24 GMT -5
I think some things are best left unseen, so I don't mind if GorsexBeech's story is never told, though I do have my own headcanon on how it all went down. As for her backup mate, I always assumed it was Owlwhisker, especially since Sedgewhisker is a light brown tabby like he is.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 14:15:31 GMT -5
I think some things are best left unseen, so I don't mind if GorsexBeech's story is never told, though I do have my own headcanon on how it all went down. As for her backup mate, I always assumed it was Owlwhisker, especially since Sedgewhisker is a light brown tabby like he is. But aren't Sedgewhisker, Thistleheart, and Swallowtail all from the same litter? Thistleheart's spiky fur was the main reason why Beechfur was picked as her father, because WindClan cats usually don't have that fur type. Then again, one litter can have multiple fathers, so it could make sense, but not many people know about that.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 14:43:07 GMT -5
I think some things are best left unseen, so I don't mind if GorsexBeech's story is never told, though I do have my own headcanon on how it all went down. As for her backup mate, I always assumed it was Owlwhisker, especially since Sedgewhisker is a light brown tabby like he is. But aren't Sedgewhisker, Thistleheart, and Swallowtail all from the same litter? Thistleheart's spiky fur was the main reason why Beechfur was picked as her father, because WindClan cats usually don't have that fur type. Then again, one litter can have multiple fathers, so it could make sense, but not many people know about that. I think you might be misunderstanding me. Gorsetail's kits are all from the same litter, but Thistleheart having spiky fur would be irrelevant if one of the kits looks like the presumed father. Owlwhisker would be a cover-up, and he would be a believable choice as well since, again, Sedgewhisker actually looks like him. And this is all assuming if WindClan and RiverClan were never aware of the relationship at all; the rest of the Clans (or at least ThunderClan and of course SkyClan) certainly aren't.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 14:50:34 GMT -5
But aren't Sedgewhisker, Thistleheart, and Swallowtail all from the same litter? Thistleheart's spiky fur was the main reason why Beechfur was picked as her father, because WindClan cats usually don't have that fur type. Then again, one litter can have multiple fathers, so it could make sense, but not many people know about that. I think you might be misunderstanding me. Gorsetail's kits are all from the same litter, but Thistleheart having spiky fur would be irrelevant if one of the kits looks like the presumed father. Owlwhisker would be a cover-up, and he would be a believable choice as well since, again, Sedgewhisker actually looks like him. And this is all assuming if WindClan and RiverClan were never aware of the relationship at all; the rest of the Clans (or at least ThunderClan and of course SkyClan) certainly aren't. Ohhh! That makes a lot of sense Would Owlwhisker go for it? Or maybe he thinks he really is the father, like Bramblestar did.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 14:56:32 GMT -5
I think you might be misunderstanding me. Gorsetail's kits are all from the same litter, but Thistleheart having spiky fur would be irrelevant if one of the kits looks like the presumed father. Owlwhisker would be a cover-up, and he would be a believable choice as well since, again, Sedgewhisker actually looks like him. And this is all assuming if WindClan and RiverClan were never aware of the relationship at all; the rest of the Clans (or at least ThunderClan and of course SkyClan) certainly aren't. Ohhh! That makes a lot of sense Would Owlwhisker go for it? Or maybe he thinks he really is the father, like Bramblestar did. In an outline I wrote for a potential fanfic, he knows.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 15:01:13 GMT -5
Ohhh! That makes a lot of sense Would Owlwhisker go for it? Or maybe he thinks he really is the father, like Bramblestar did. In an outline I wrote for a potential fanfic, he knows. That sounds like it'd be an interesting fanfic. I don't know much about Owlwhisker, except that his mentor was the best WindClan cat of Firestar's generation. He also was apprenticed before he was 6 moons old, and he sided with Sol during the whole ordeal.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 15:15:34 GMT -5
In an outline I wrote for a potential fanfic, he knows. That sounds like it'd be an interesting fanfic. I don't know much about Owlwhisker, except that his mentor was the best WindClan cat of Firestar's generation. He also was apprenticed before he was 6 moons old, and he sided with Sol during the whole ordeal. I posted a thread about it awhile ago and it may be awhile for me to get to it because I'm busy with alot of other things already, but here's the outline if you're interested in reading it. It starts on the Great Journey, with Gorsepaw of RiverClan meeting Beechpaw of RiverClan. She finds him annoying at first, what with his endless, excited chatter, and just pretty much ignores him until the cats get to the mountains. There, Crowpaw becomes Crowfeather, which makes Gorsepaw jealous and angry; not only is she not much older than the new warrior, but she also considers him disloyal for leaving his Clan without telling anyone, and it's clear to her that he and Feathertail of RiverClan were more than just friends. Her sister Thistlepaw tries to comfort her, but Gorsepaw is just too irritated by the unfairness of it all to really care what Thistlepaw has to say.
A little later, she finds out that Stormfur is planning to stay with the Tribe and wonders aloud if all RiverClan cats were traitors. Beechpaw overhears this, and—with his initial excitement having subsided—the two get into an argument. Gorsepaw bringing up TigerClan is the last straw, which leads Beechpaw to attack her. Her mother Whitetail and Beechpaw's mentor Blackclaw break them up, and the two begrudgingly apologize to each other. Gorsepaw also vows not to underestimate Beechpaw next time.
Later, Gorsepaw's jealousy of Crowfeather grows when he's chosen to look for new territory. Whitetail reminds her daughter that Crowfeather had been one of the cats chosen by StarClan, but this just makes her feel worse.
When Tallstar dies and names Onewhisker his successor, Gorsepaw is initially very happy for her father, but this quickly disappears when tensions rise within the Clan, especially between Whitetail and her siblings, Webfoot and Nightcloud, who both support Mudclaw; their other brother and Gorsepaw's mentor and namesake, Gorsetail, doesn't seem to care so long as WindClan has a good leader. This growing tension eventually gets to Gorsepaw and Thistlepaw, who also supports Mudclaw, though Gorsepaw guesses that her sister is only saying these things because of her crush on Owlpaw, who is the apprentice of Mudclaw's brother Tornear.
One day, Gorsepaw goes hunting on her own and encounters Beechpaw on WindClan's side of the border. Remembering what happened the last time they spoke, she keeps her guard up and immediately questions him on what he's doing on WindClan territory, but he points out that she's the one who crossed the border, not him, and threatens to report her. Too irritated to care, she accidentally vents to him about the problems that WindClan has been having, and much to her surprise, Beechpaw is sympathetic and reveals that RiverClan has been having similar problems on whether to support Mistyfoot or Hawkfrost as deputy.
Before the conversation can continue, Gorsepaw hears Beechpaw's patrol, and he gives her his word that he won't tell she was there; she takes the risk of trusting him and runs back to her territory. Later, back at camp, tensions only continue to grow, and Gorsepaw finds herself wishing she was talking to Beechpaw again.
During Mudclaw's rebellion, Gorsepaw and Thistlepaw—unable to fight each other—fight side by side against Mudclaw's followers. However, Thistlepaw dies of her wounds after the battle. The death of the apprentice as well as her other Clanmates helps bring WindClan together in shared grief, and Gorsepaw wonders if any of this was really worth it.
When Onestar returns from the Moonpool, the first thing he does as leader is make Owlpaw and Weaselpaw into warriors, named Owlwhisker and Weaselfur respectively. Gorsepaw, too numb with grief to feel jealousy or otherwise, wonders why her father named them warriors until she realizes that he most likely did it to gain support from Mudclaw's followers. Onestar also announces that WindClan will stand on its own from now on, which makes Gorsepaw feel uneasy.
Life goes on in WindClan and Gorsepaw and Beechpaw grow closer at Gatherings, especially after she worries about him after hearing that he almost died. They even apologize to each other again for the argument they had at the Tribe, and it's genuine on both sides this time. Gorsepaw also continues to train harder in Thistlepaw's memory. Later, she notices that Crowfeather has been acting odd lately and follows him one night, only to discover that he has been meeting with Leafpool, ThunderClan's medicine cat. She confronts him about it, but Crowfeather dismisses her because she's only an apprentice. He also accuses her of being a hypocrite and falling in love with Beechpaw, but she denies it; it feels like a lie.
During the battle against the badgers, Gorsetail is injured and dies afterwards. Gorsepaw's new mentor is Ashfoot.
After Crowfeather returns from running away with Leafpool, he is monitored by his Clanmates constantly, and Gorsepaw finds herself feeling sorry for him and wonders if she really is in love with Beechpaw. The next Gathering confirms this when she gets jealous after he shows admiration for Willowpaw when he tells Gorsepaw that the medicine cat apprentice had helped save his life. Gorsepaw tries to convince herself that her feelings will fade, but they only get stronger.
She finally earns her warrior name—Gorsetail, after her mentor—and shares the news with the newly named Beechfur when she sees him alone at the border. Gorsetail finally confesses her feelings for him and wishes to be with him in RiverClan, but—thinking he's protecting her from possible ostracism—admits his guilt to telling Hawkfrost about WindClan's problems not long after she had vented to him when they were apprentices, which then led to the older RiverClan warrior to conspire with Mudclaw. Gorsetail wants him to tell her that he's lying, but he remains silent. She then thanks him for telling her this, because now it'll be easier for her to hate him and face him in battle.
Another lie.
Gorsetail tries to find satisfaction in WindClan and even grows closer to Owlwhisker, who has since kept mostly to himself since Thistlepaw's death. They end up becoming friends, but nothing more than that. She also gives Crowfeather the idea to do the same to gain WindClan's trust back by taking Nightcloud as a mate, but it soon becomes clear that this was a mistake after Breezekit is born.
Not long after her little sister Heatherkit's birth, Gorsetail encounters Beechfur at the border, and he tells her that he missed her. She attempts to resist the temptation to be affectionate towards him, but still fails at being hostile, and the entire meeting is just awkward. Before he leaves, Beechfur blurts out that he wishes to meet her on the island, and she agrees without thinking.
During their meeting, Beechfur apologizes for telling Hawkfrost what was happening in WindClan, and while Gorsetail refuses to forgive him, she agrees to put it past them. They update each other on their lives, but when Gorsetail brings up Owlwhisker, Beechfur assumes that the two are mates. She assures him that they aren't and that she only has eyes for one cat. As Gorsetail nuzzles him, she's almost sure she smells Thistlepaw, but the scent is gone before she can be sure.
Their meetings continue until Gorsetail finds out that she's pregnant with Beechfur's kits, though almost everyone assumes the father is Owlwhisker, who is the only one besides Crowfeather who knows the truth. They both agree to keep Gorsetail's secret. Soon, Gorsetail has three daughters: Sedgekit, Swallowkit, and Thistlekit, who is named after Thistlepaw.
The secret doesn't last for long however, but RiverClan and WindClan agree to keep this information private when it finally does get revealed, and this creates a secret, though unofficial alliance of sorts. Beechfur also insists that his kits stay with their mother in WindClan; Leopardstar reluctantly agrees. The alliance briefly breaks after WindClan accuses RiverClan of taking the kits and almost goes to war with them, but they're thankfully found before the two Clans can fight. This shaky alliance also helps Onestar convince Leopardstar to help him attack ThunderClan.
Gorsetail's kits eventually become apprentices—Thistlepaw is apprenticed to Leaftail, Sedgepaw to Dewspots, and Swallowpaw to Willowclaw. They never learn that Beechfur is their father and instead grow up believing that it's Owlwhisker, who proves to be an excellent father to his foster kits by doing the exact opposite of whatever Crowfeather does.
When Hollyleaf reveals the truth of her heritage to the Clans, this deeply disturbs Gorsetail, and she has nightmares about it for moons—only except of it being Hollyleaf revealing her half-Clan heritage, it's one of her own daughters. As a distraction, Onestar has his granddaughters become warriors a little earlier than expected: they become Sedgewhisker, Thistleheart, and Swallowtail. But because of their RiverClan heritage, this just makes things worse for a few moons, much to the confusion of the three new warriors.
When the drought hits the Clans, Beechfur is one of the first cats to die, and Gorsetail mourns him in silence. She becomes proud of Sedgewhisker being chosen to help bring water back to the Clans, privately thinking that this is avenging Beechfur, even if Sedgewhisker herself doesn't know it.
Gorsetail has a very close relationship with her daughters even after they become warriors, such as encouraging Sedgewhisker to be with Emberfoot, comforting Swallowtail after Antpelt dies, and supporting Thistleheart's decision to not have a mate and kits.
After Furzepelt, Breezepelt, Whiskernose, Weaselfur, Harespring, Owlwhisker, and Heathertail attack ThunderClan, Gorsetail argues with Owlwhisker about being foolish for trusting Sol, and this has a negative impact on their relationship.
Sedgewhisker eventually becomes pregnant with Emberfoot's kits, and has a daughter named Larkkit. They have a close relationship until after the Great Battle, where it's revealed that Larkpaw was a Dark Forest trainee. Gorsetail tries to comfort her remaining daughter—having lost Swallowtail and Thistleheart in the battle, as well as her "mate" Owlwhisker—but to no avail.
When Sedgewhisker vents to her mother about how all traitors deserve to be punished after Harespring is made deputy and Larkpaw a warrior named Larkwing, Gorsetail finally reveals the secret she had kept for so long. It takes many moons for their relationship to be repaired, but Sedgewhisker eventually makes amends with Gorsetail when the latter comforts her daughter as she initially has difficulty giving birth to a daughter named Fernkit, and she later learns to finally forgive her mother and the former trainees.
Gorsetail continues to be a loyal and respected warrior for the rest of her life, and the story ends with her being reunited with Beechfur in StarClan.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 19, 2019 15:42:11 GMT -5
a lot of ships are technically underdeveloped since a lot of them start from "nothing" or "nowhere" ("nothing" means there was no special moments to build it up into a ship when the romance actually starts).
leafxcrow's biggest complaint is it being from "nowhere" or being "too sudden" and most importantly "too rushed." those are valid critiques and complaints. if only i could get confirmation of my headcanon of them noticing one another on the great journey to the lake, then some of the problems would be mostly solved imo. grayxsilver is in the same boat as leafxcrow.
dovextiger is also from "nothing." they go on a journey together and on the journey there wasnt any special treatment or moments between them and suddenly they wanna hang out...? okay, that's from nowhere too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 16:08:19 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵Wow, that's amazing! I love how you connected the families, like, made Gorsetail and Thistlepaw Whitetail and Onewhisker's litter from Firestar's Quest. I also like how she named her daughter Thistleheart after Thistlepaw. And the part where Sedgewhisker vents about how all the traitors should be punished, and how Gorsetail confides in her about Beechfur, and how Sedgewhisker learns to forgive everyone. Gorsetail and Beechfur being together in StarClan again is cute too.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 16:28:50 GMT -5
a lot of ships are technically underdeveloped since a lot of them start from "nothing" or "nowhere" ("nothing" means there was no special moments to build it up into a ship when the romance actually starts). leafxcrow's biggest complaint is it being from "nowhere" or being "too sudden" and most importantly "too rushed." those are valid critiques and complaints. if only i could get confirmation of my headcanon of them noticing one another on the great journey to the lake, then some of the problems would be mostly solved imo. grayxsilver is in the same boat as leafxcrow. dovextiger is also from "nothing." they go on a journey together and on the journey there wasnt any special treatment or moments between them and suddenly they wanna hang out...? okay, that's from nowhere too. Leafpool and Crowfeather actually do interact once on the Great Journey, so there's that, I guess. It's mentioned in the same chapter (a few paragraphs prior to this scene) that she was amazed by his agility when he was helping Tallpoppy's kits get across a gap. As for Dove x Tiger, I thought it was pretty obvious that Dovepaw was initially annoyed with Tigerheart and then came to appreciate him while on the journey (Tigerheart impressed her with one of his plans and she helped save his life later on), and met with him because he was the only cat outside her Clan who still wanted to maintain the bond they shared. Dovepaw was pretty lonely when you really think about it, what with her and Ivypaw growing apart and she never really had a special connection with Jayfeather and Lionblaze besides them being involved in a prophecy and Lionblaze being her mentor. Not to mention she was still an apprentice at the time, so it doesn't surprise me that she would've basically latched onto the first cat who seemed to care about what she wanted and didn't seem to have any high expectations of her. It's almost sad, really.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 19, 2019 17:04:31 GMT -5
a lot of ships are technically underdeveloped since a lot of them start from "nothing" or "nowhere" ("nothing" means there was no special moments to build it up into a ship when the romance actually starts). leafxcrow's biggest complaint is it being from "nowhere" or being "too sudden" and most importantly "too rushed." those are valid critiques and complaints. if only i could get confirmation of my headcanon of them noticing one another on the great journey to the lake, then some of the problems would be mostly solved imo. grayxsilver is in the same boat as leafxcrow. dovextiger is also from "nothing." they go on a journey together and on the journey there wasnt any special treatment or moments between them and suddenly they wanna hang out...? okay, that's from nowhere too. Leafpool and Crowfeather actually do interact once on the Great Journey, so there's that, I guess. It's mentioned in the same chapter (a few paragraphs prior to this scene) that she was amazed by his agility when he was helping Tallpoppy's kits get across a gap. As for Dove x Tiger, I thought it was pretty obvious that Dovepaw was initially annoyed with Tigerheart and then came to appreciate him while on the journey (Tigerheart impressed her with one of his plans and she helped save his life later on), and met with him because he was the only cat outside her Clan who still wanted to maintain the bond they shared. Dovepaw was pretty lonely when you really think about it, what with her and Ivypaw growing apart and she never really had a special connection with Jayfeather and Lionblaze besides them being involved in a prophecy and Lionblaze being her mentor. Not to mention she was still an apprentice at the time, so it doesn't surprise me that she would've basically latched onto the first cat who seemed to care about what she wanted and didn't seem to have any high expectations of her. It's almost sad, really. ohhh whoa i didnt know they did interact then! where in the books is it? was the great journey in book 3? its a shame i dont remember this at all when you put dovextiger in that way, it is sad. the first person to show that to her doesnt really build a good relationship and in oots, that shows the most. as much as i hate the ship, i agree with the majority that its better now that their drama is over and they're just there in shadowclan as a family unit (mainly through shadowpaw)
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Post by alphayamergo on Nov 19, 2019 18:13:02 GMT -5
Leaf/Crow will always be the most frustrating for me, because they had the perfect excuse for an inter-Clan relationship right there. Squirrelpaw could have introduced the two of them early in Dawn, then they could have kept interacting and bonding throughout the journey, with Leafpaw sympathizing with him over Feathertail and him helping her through the journey like in the quote Mothflight mentioned. Leafpaw could even get sent off with the journey cats + Mistyfoot when they were exploring the territories to make sure there's herbs. Having Squirrelpaw introduce them would also mean Leafpaw would see Crowpaw for the first time when he's being relatively nice because he's with his friends, which would go a long way to smooth over her interactions with grumpy!Crowfeather. It would have been so easy to have written a developed Leaf/Crow - which is honestly why I think it was only decided on late in the process of writing TNP, too late for them to back and add Leaf/Crow scenes into Dawn, so they had to smoosh it all into Starlight and Twilight.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2019 18:32:32 GMT -5
ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆, the Leaf/Crow interaction I quoted is in Dawn while they're traveling to the Tribe. It's on chapter 21. And yeah, the relationship is definitely much better now that they're in the same Clan. Dovewing herself had alot of potential as a character and I think that's why I like her so much, but the execution was just horrible. You see glimpses of her being deeper than she actually is, but it's never delved into for long.
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Post by briarfrost on Nov 27, 2019 18:14:27 GMT -5
That sounds like it'd be an interesting fanfic. I don't know much about Owlwhisker, except that his mentor was the best WindClan cat of Firestar's generation. He also was apprenticed before he was 6 moons old, and he sided with Sol during the whole ordeal. I posted a thread about it awhile ago and it may be awhile for me to get to it because I'm busy with alot of other things already, but here's the outline if you're interested in reading it. It starts on the Great Journey, with Gorsepaw of RiverClan meeting Beechpaw of RiverClan. She finds him annoying at first, what with his endless, excited chatter, and just pretty much ignores him until the cats get to the mountains. There, Crowpaw becomes Crowfeather, which makes Gorsepaw jealous and angry; not only is she not much older than the new warrior, but she also considers him disloyal for leaving his Clan without telling anyone, and it's clear to her that he and Feathertail of RiverClan were more than just friends. Her sister Thistlepaw tries to comfort her, but Gorsepaw is just too irritated by the unfairness of it all to really care what Thistlepaw has to say.
A little later, she finds out that Stormfur is planning to stay with the Tribe and wonders aloud if all RiverClan cats were traitors. Beechpaw overhears this, and—with his initial excitement having subsided—the two get into an argument. Gorsepaw bringing up TigerClan is the last straw, which leads Beechpaw to attack her. Her mother Whitetail and Beechpaw's mentor Blackclaw break them up, and the two begrudgingly apologize to each other. Gorsepaw also vows not to underestimate Beechpaw next time.
Later, Gorsepaw's jealousy of Crowfeather grows when he's chosen to look for new territory. Whitetail reminds her daughter that Crowfeather had been one of the cats chosen by StarClan, but this just makes her feel worse.
When Tallstar dies and names Onewhisker his successor, Gorsepaw is initially very happy for her father, but this quickly disappears when tensions rise within the Clan, especially between Whitetail and her siblings, Webfoot and Nightcloud, who both support Mudclaw; their other brother and Gorsepaw's mentor and namesake, Gorsetail, doesn't seem to care so long as WindClan has a good leader. This growing tension eventually gets to Gorsepaw and Thistlepaw, who also supports Mudclaw, though Gorsepaw guesses that her sister is only saying these things because of her crush on Owlpaw, who is the apprentice of Mudclaw's brother Tornear.
One day, Gorsepaw goes hunting on her own and encounters Beechpaw on WindClan's side of the border. Remembering what happened the last time they spoke, she keeps her guard up and immediately questions him on what he's doing on WindClan territory, but he points out that she's the one who crossed the border, not him, and threatens to report her. Too irritated to care, she accidentally vents to him about the problems that WindClan has been having, and much to her surprise, Beechpaw is sympathetic and reveals that RiverClan has been having similar problems on whether to support Mistyfoot or Hawkfrost as deputy.
Before the conversation can continue, Gorsepaw hears Beechpaw's patrol, and he gives her his word that he won't tell she was there; she takes the risk of trusting him and runs back to her territory. Later, back at camp, tensions only continue to grow, and Gorsepaw finds herself wishing she was talking to Beechpaw again.
During Mudclaw's rebellion, Gorsepaw and Thistlepaw—unable to fight each other—fight side by side against Mudclaw's followers. However, Thistlepaw dies of her wounds after the battle. The death of the apprentice as well as her other Clanmates helps bring WindClan together in shared grief, and Gorsepaw wonders if any of this was really worth it.
When Onestar returns from the Moonpool, the first thing he does as leader is make Owlpaw and Weaselpaw into warriors, named Owlwhisker and Weaselfur respectively. Gorsepaw, too numb with grief to feel jealousy or otherwise, wonders why her father named them warriors until she realizes that he most likely did it to gain support from Mudclaw's followers. Onestar also announces that WindClan will stand on its own from now on, which makes Gorsepaw feel uneasy.
Life goes on in WindClan and Gorsepaw and Beechpaw grow closer at Gatherings, especially after she worries about him after hearing that he almost died. They even apologize to each other again for the argument they had at the Tribe, and it's genuine on both sides this time. Gorsepaw also continues to train harder in Thistlepaw's memory. Later, she notices that Crowfeather has been acting odd lately and follows him one night, only to discover that he has been meeting with Leafpool, ThunderClan's medicine cat. She confronts him about it, but Crowfeather dismisses her because she's only an apprentice. He also accuses her of being a hypocrite and falling in love with Beechpaw, but she denies it; it feels like a lie.
During the battle against the badgers, Gorsetail is injured and dies afterwards. Gorsepaw's new mentor is Ashfoot.
After Crowfeather returns from running away with Leafpool, he is monitored by his Clanmates constantly, and Gorsepaw finds herself feeling sorry for him and wonders if she really is in love with Beechpaw. The next Gathering confirms this when she gets jealous after he shows admiration for Willowpaw when he tells Gorsepaw that the medicine cat apprentice had helped save his life. Gorsepaw tries to convince herself that her feelings will fade, but they only get stronger.
She finally earns her warrior name—Gorsetail, after her mentor—and shares the news with the newly named Beechfur when she sees him alone at the border. Gorsetail finally confesses her feelings for him and wishes to be with him in RiverClan, but—thinking he's protecting her from possible ostracism—admits his guilt to telling Hawkfrost about WindClan's problems not long after she had vented to him when they were apprentices, which then led to the older RiverClan warrior to conspire with Mudclaw. Gorsetail wants him to tell her that he's lying, but he remains silent. She then thanks him for telling her this, because now it'll be easier for her to hate him and face him in battle.
Another lie.
Gorsetail tries to find satisfaction in WindClan and even grows closer to Owlwhisker, who has since kept mostly to himself since Thistlepaw's death. They end up becoming friends, but nothing more than that. She also gives Crowfeather the idea to do the same to gain WindClan's trust back by taking Nightcloud as a mate, but it soon becomes clear that this was a mistake after Breezekit is born.
Not long after her little sister Heatherkit's birth, Gorsetail encounters Beechfur at the border, and he tells her that he missed her. She attempts to resist the temptation to be affectionate towards him, but still fails at being hostile, and the entire meeting is just awkward. Before he leaves, Beechfur blurts out that he wishes to meet her on the island, and she agrees without thinking.
During their meeting, Beechfur apologizes for telling Hawkfrost what was happening in WindClan, and while Gorsetail refuses to forgive him, she agrees to put it past them. They update each other on their lives, but when Gorsetail brings up Owlwhisker, Beechfur assumes that the two are mates. She assures him that they aren't and that she only has eyes for one cat. As Gorsetail nuzzles him, she's almost sure she smells Thistlepaw, but the scent is gone before she can be sure.
Their meetings continue until Gorsetail finds out that she's pregnant with Beechfur's kits, though almost everyone assumes the father is Owlwhisker, who is the only one besides Crowfeather who knows the truth. They both agree to keep Gorsetail's secret. Soon, Gorsetail has three daughters: Sedgekit, Swallowkit, and Thistlekit, who is named after Thistlepaw.
The secret doesn't last for long however, but RiverClan and WindClan agree to keep this information private when it finally does get revealed, and this creates a secret, though unofficial alliance of sorts. Beechfur also insists that his kits stay with their mother in WindClan; Leopardstar reluctantly agrees. The alliance briefly breaks after WindClan accuses RiverClan of taking the kits and almost goes to war with them, but they're thankfully found before the two Clans can fight. This shaky alliance also helps Onestar convince Leopardstar to help him attack ThunderClan.
Gorsetail's kits eventually become apprentices—Thistlepaw is apprenticed to Leaftail, Sedgepaw to Dewspots, and Swallowpaw to Willowclaw. They never learn that Beechfur is their father and instead grow up believing that it's Owlwhisker, who proves to be an excellent father to his foster kits by doing the exact opposite of whatever Crowfeather does.
When Hollyleaf reveals the truth of her heritage to the Clans, this deeply disturbs Gorsetail, and she has nightmares about it for moons—only except of it being Hollyleaf revealing her half-Clan heritage, it's one of her own daughters. As a distraction, Onestar has his granddaughters become warriors a little earlier than expected: they become Sedgewhisker, Thistleheart, and Swallowtail. But because of their RiverClan heritage, this just makes things worse for a few moons, much to the confusion of the three new warriors.
When the drought hits the Clans, Beechfur is one of the first cats to die, and Gorsetail mourns him in silence. She becomes proud of Sedgewhisker being chosen to help bring water back to the Clans, privately thinking that this is avenging Beechfur, even if Sedgewhisker herself doesn't know it.
Gorsetail has a very close relationship with her daughters even after they become warriors, such as encouraging Sedgewhisker to be with Emberfoot, comforting Swallowtail after Antpelt dies, and supporting Thistleheart's decision to not have a mate and kits.
After Furzepelt, Breezepelt, Whiskernose, Weaselfur, Harespring, Owlwhisker, and Heathertail attack ThunderClan, Gorsetail argues with Owlwhisker about being foolish for trusting Sol, and this has a negative impact on their relationship.
Sedgewhisker eventually becomes pregnant with Emberfoot's kits, and has a daughter named Larkkit. They have a close relationship until after the Great Battle, where it's revealed that Larkpaw was a Dark Forest trainee. Gorsetail tries to comfort her remaining daughter—having lost Swallowtail and Thistleheart in the battle, as well as her "mate" Owlwhisker—but to no avail.
When Sedgewhisker vents to her mother about how all traitors deserve to be punished after Harespring is made deputy and Larkpaw a warrior named Larkwing, Gorsetail finally reveals the secret she had kept for so long. It takes many moons for their relationship to be repaired, but Sedgewhisker eventually makes amends with Gorsetail when the latter comforts her daughter as she initially has difficulty giving birth to a daughter named Fernkit, and she later learns to finally forgive her mother and the former trainees.
Gorsetail continues to be a loyal and respected warrior for the rest of her life, and the story ends with her being reunited with Beechfur in StarClan. This is amazing and I love it!
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