|
Post by cappuccinokitty on Oct 20, 2019 3:09:36 GMT -5
I never really understood why everyone loves her? Its nice to see a cat actually stick to the code, but aside from that I found her boring. I didn’t like her “redemption” either. why do people like her so much? Is there something I’ve missed?
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 20, 2019 3:22:34 GMT -5
For me, it has less to do with Hollyleaf as a cat and more on her as a character: a young cat who wishes nothing more than to find her place in the Clan while being completely devoted to their laws as she gets older, only for her to find out that her very existence was nothing more but a lie, thus causing her to take desperate measures into her own paws, go into self-exile while also helping her Clanmates in the shadows, return as a more humble cat, risk her life saving a cat she barely knew, and then die after making amends with her biological mother makes for a pretty good story to me.
|
|
|
Post by Haze on Oct 20, 2019 6:18:11 GMT -5
She is definitely the best of the three siblings.
Killing a cat for her own personal reasons, trying to kill her own biological mother and then running away when things go ugly to her side was something that I never expected a Warrior Cat protagonist would do, her final arc in PoT was the most interesting part of these 6 books.
|
|
|
Post by Hawkflower on Oct 20, 2019 8:39:41 GMT -5
I find her breakdown really relatable and how she handled the situation.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 12:05:42 GMT -5
I agree with you actually. I'm not a fan of Hollyleaf. I find her overrated. She was boring and stale until the whole drama explosion near the end of POT. Her lines were drinking game worthy. She tried to kill her own mother, a medicine cat, and that scene will never sit well with me. She killed Ashfur to prevent him from spilling the beans, but then she goes and tells the secret anyway, ruining her and her brothers' reputations among the Clans. Somebody explain the logic of that to me, because I still don't get it.
I don't feel like she had a redemption, either. To me, a character is redeemed when they own up to all their mistakes and better themselves. Hollyleaf just let Bramblestar lie for her. She still did good things for ThunderClan when she came back, but I don't see it as a redemption arc at all.
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Oct 20, 2019 12:26:51 GMT -5
She’s more interesting than her brothers, but I was always neutral on her. Good character, but she annoyed me often.
|
|
|
Post by cappuccinokitty on Oct 20, 2019 13:06:50 GMT -5
I’m pretty neutral on Hollyleaf. I prefer Jayfeather but she’s better than Lionblaze (actually, anyone’s better than Lionblaze).
@happy413 That’s pretty much my opinion on her ’redemption’. By running away from a problem, you don’t solve the problem. She was the one who committed unnecessary murder, but then told everyone, leaving her brothers to face the humiliation of being half clan alone. I generally don’t mind her too much. I just found her POV boring.
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Oct 20, 2019 15:43:00 GMT -5
She killed Ashfur to prevent him from spilling the beans, but then she goes and tells the secret anyway, ruining her and her brothers' reputations among the Clans. Somebody explain the logic of that to me, because I still don't get it.
I sometimes feel like I'm the only person who actually caught this scene, because SO MANY PEOPLE say that. She was very upset but still stable when she found out Squirrelflight wasn't her mother. She killed Ashfur because he was a threat to her and her brothers' safety, as well as the fact that he was going to ruin everyone's life over Squirrelflight taking in some rogue kits, which in her mind, was bad, but not bad enough to risk ruining everyone's life. However, after Ashfur was dead, she found out the real truth, which in her mind, was waaaaaaaay worse than being rogues. She breaks and reveals the secret, being unable to handle keeping it hidden. Lionblaze makes it clear in Sunrise after she runs away. He basically says there was a big difference in the secret Ashfur was going to reveal, and the secret Hollyleaf did reveal. They were not the same. EDIT: In the post below me Mothflight provides the quote. I was originally going to put it here when I got my copy, but now that's not necessary.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 20, 2019 16:04:15 GMT -5
She killed Ashfur to prevent him from spilling the beans, but then she goes and tells the secret anyway, ruining her and her brothers' reputations among the Clans. Somebody explain the logic of that to me, because I still don't get it. That's the thing though, it's not meant to be logical. This is even commented on, as well as explained. Hollyleaf seemed like she was able to somewhat tolerate possibly being the daughter of a rogue, considering her own leader and grandfather had once been a kittypet. But her birth had in actuality been against not just one code, but two; that's what broke her. She killed Ashfur so he wouldn't bring ThunderClan down, but by the time of that infamous Gathering, she was so blinded by her own anger that all she wanted was to see Squirrelflight and Leafpool punished, even if that meant doing the very thing she had been trying to prevent. The bigger the audience, the more humiliation.
|
|
|
Post by Dancing_Totodile on Oct 21, 2019 9:20:20 GMT -5
Skypaw13 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵Exactly that! I don’t know why people do t realize this.
|
|
|
Post by cappuccinokitty on Oct 21, 2019 10:30:00 GMT -5
That makes sense, but personally it doesn’t make me like her more as a character. Until the ashfur scenario, I didn’t think she had much to her aside from obeying the code. The fire scene should’ve happened earlier, it would’ve helped her character development and made PoT more interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Oatstripe on Oct 21, 2019 10:58:16 GMT -5
I don't adore her, and I felt like she was always being dramatic. I felt like she freaked out and while that was interesting to read, it was annoying. She is a very beautiful character, and while her redemption was a nice touch, I still don't feel like she was underrated. She had an entire arc that she was in. It's kind of like saying Dovewing is underrated. (She has an arc, novella, and is featured in AVOS and Lost Stars).
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 21, 2019 11:23:04 GMT -5
The explanation as to why she spoke up at the gathering was actually...rather intriguing and helpful, thanks. But I also agree with cappuccinokitty still when it comes to her character. Jayfeather arguably did the most work plot-wise compared to the other three, but as a character, Hollyleaf had a stronger narrative but only after the Ashfur incident. So honestly, both do have a much more interesting plotline than both Dove and Lion tbh.
However, Hollyleaf really didn't seem like she owned up to anything. If the reason she revealed the secret was to humiliate her mother and aunt, that's definitely not her owning up to a secret of revealing it for the good of the cause, it's just her trying to get revenge. On top of that she pretty much humiliated her brothers as well, and then ran away from the consequences of all of that. She self-exiled herself, she wasn't really properly addressed about any of her crimes, and still got away with it when she came back due to Brambleclaw lying for her behalf. She also had every opportunity after she healed to come back to the clans and face the music but didn't until a cat recognized her, and she had every opportunity upon her return to correct Brambleclaw's lie but she didn't do that either. She got away with murder, and attempted murder, and publicly humiliated her own kin and clan and got away with all of it...nor did she take responsibility for it.
I don't see much growth in her character except her becoming more level-headed, but honestly, that's supposed to be expected of a clan cat in general anyways. She also feels like wasted potential...she comes back one book only for the Erins to kill her off the very next book. I honestly would have loved to see how her clanmates would have reacted to finding out the actual truth, or her actually facing judgment, or her and Leafpool talking about their last interaction before she left. But we didn't really get any of that closure, and we sure as heck won't get it now.
|
|
|
Post by Pince on Oct 21, 2019 21:26:57 GMT -5
I used to love her a lot. Now I like her as a character because I think she is more interesting than other cats. Cough* Cough* Lionblaze.
|
|