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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 15:08:32 GMT -5
Get too much hate?
I know he was a bully, who teased Tallstar pretty much all his life, but this all happened while he was a child. When he died, he was the equivalent of a 17 year old boy.
During that time, his only littermate decided to be a med-cat apprentice, meaning that he wasn't able to train with him, which probably made him feel lonely.
His mother was killed in a battle, which Talltail said was his (Talltail's) fault. I know it was his fault, and the reader's know, but an already temperamental child grieving for his mother, isn't going to think rationally.
There's also the fact that during Shrewclaw's life, moor-runners and tunnelers seemed to be two separate groups, who were always trying to one up each other. Being the child of two moor runners, Shrewclaw probably heard a lot of crap talk about tunnelers growing up, I mean, he was a little 3 moon old baby when he first called Tallkit, Wormkit.
I'm not saying he should get a free pass, I just think that it should be taken into consideration that during this whole time, he was a child, and I'm sure that when he got older, he would start to mellow out, and maybe he and Talltail could actually become friends.
It even said that he was sad when Talltail left, so maybe they were already close to the stage of becoming friends.
What do you guys think?
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Post by hazelstar on Sept 30, 2019 15:43:04 GMT -5
I liked him
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 15:44:41 GMT -5
He irritated me to the point where I thought, I hope he never breeds. But looking back through everything, he's not THAT bad
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Post by hazelstar on Sept 30, 2019 15:52:02 GMT -5
He irritated me to the point where I thought, I hope he never breeds. But looking back through everything, he's not THAT bad They made up in the end and he had some development
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 15:58:12 GMT -5
He irritated me to the point where I thought, I hope he never breeds. But looking back through everything, he's not THAT bad They made up in the end and he had some development I loved the ending, but I was so sad when he died. I'm really surprised they never mentioned his kits, considering that they made such a big deal out of everyone fussing over Ryestalk, and Shrewclaw being the father and what not
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Post by Brindlefern on Sept 30, 2019 18:31:34 GMT -5
No, if anything he should get more. I'm never gonna forgive him for his shit and his redemption was absolutely half-assed as well.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 30, 2019 20:23:44 GMT -5
He's honestly not that bad imo. I think it really comes down to the fact that some people are adamant about "bullies" not getting redemptions for what they did. Even if they actually have good qualities in their character, and develop for the better later on. I think a good example is Bakugou from BnhA, or Shoya from A Silent Voice. I think it just takes a little time and a little work, and they'll change for the better.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 20:29:29 GMT -5
He's honestly not that bad imo. I think it really comes down to the fact that some people are adamant about "bullies" not getting redemptions for what they did. Even if they actually have good qualities in their character, and develop for the better later on. I think a good example is Bakugou from BnhA, or Shoya from A Silent Voice. I think it just takes a little time and a little work, and they'll change for the better. I honestly think that if he was able to live longer, he would have mellowed out a bit. Then again, Jayfeather's elder age and he's still an a-hole, so what do I know?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 30, 2019 20:29:43 GMT -5
I didn't think he was that bad, and he's definitely a case of someone being a product of their environment. It's why I find him to be interesting and it's a shame he died so young, because he was just starting to turn out to be a decent cat.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 20:30:37 GMT -5
I didn't think he was that bad, and he's definitely a case of someone being a product of their environment. It's why I find him to be interesting and it's a shame he died so young, because he was just starting to turn out to be a decent cat. I totally agree. Yeah, I don't think a 3 moon old kitten could come up with "Wormkit" on his own, he had to have heard it from somewhere, right?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 30, 2019 20:33:10 GMT -5
He's honestly not that bad imo. I think it really comes down to the fact that some people are adamant about "bullies" not getting redemptions for what they did. Even if they actually have good qualities in their character, and develop for the better later on. I think a good example is Bakugou from BnhA, or Shoya from A Silent Voice. I think it just takes a little time and a little work, and they'll change for the better. I honestly think that if he was able to live longer, he would have mellowed out a bit. Then again, Jayfeather's elder age and he's still an a-hole, so what do I know? He actually did start to mellow out a bit when he was older, because after hanging out with Reena more (I'm still shocked they weren't a thing) he became more passive. He was also passive toward Tall when he was leaving. And when he came back he greeted him with curiosity after his travels, instead of hostility. The two of them joked about the name he gave Tall as a kid, and now it's kinda a nickname, and his death scene was especially numbing to Tallstar. He's even on of the cats that give him one of his lives when he becomes leader, and makes a joke about it, it was cute. So yeah, honestly, if not for the circumstances the two of them had to deal with as children, they probably would have been much better friends. Actually he probably would have just be similar to Longtail or Dustpelt toward Firestar, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 20:35:59 GMT -5
I honestly think that if he was able to live longer, he would have mellowed out a bit. Then again, Jayfeather's elder age and he's still an a-hole, so what do I know? He actually did start to mellow out a bit when he was older, because after hanging out with Reena more (I'm still shocked they weren't a thing) he became more passive. He was also passive toward Tall when he was leaving. And when he came back he greeted him with curiosity after his travels, instead of hostility. The two of them joked about the name he gave Tall as a kid, and now it's kinda a nickname, and his death scene was especially numbing to Tallstar. He's even on of the cats that give him one of his lives when he becomes leader, and makes a joke about it, it was cute. So yeah, honestly, if not for the circumstances the two of them had to deal with as children, they probably would have been much better friends. I thought the scene where Shrewclaw gave him a life was really cute, I'm glad they were able to somewhat get through it. I wonder what would have happened if he and Reena had become mates. Yeah, I can see him being a Dustpelt or a Longtail too
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 30, 2019 20:38:03 GMT -5
Yeah honestly, I was surprised they didn't even imply them being kinda a thing, at least on Shrew's side. Because she surprisingly helped him mellow out when she spent more time with him than she did Tall. But then it turned out Reena liked Tall, but Tall liked Jake. And Shrew later ends up with Ryestalk.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 20:40:00 GMT -5
Yeah honestly, I was surprised they didn't even imply them being kinda a thing, at least on Shrew's side. Because she surprisingly helped him mellow out when she spent more time with him than she did Tall. But then it turned out Reena liked Tall, but Tall liked Jake. And Shrew later ends up with Ryestalk. That makes me think of that scene where Reena asks Talltail if he wants to go for a walk, and he denies her, then Jake is all like, "I'll go with you," and Reena denies him. I feel a little bad for everyone in that scenario. Anyway, I'm glad Shrewclaw got with Ryestalk, because if he didn't, they wouldn't have had their wonderful son, Tornear.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 30, 2019 20:42:04 GMT -5
Yeah honestly, I was surprised they didn't even imply them being kinda a thing, at least on Shrew's side. Because she surprisingly helped him mellow out when she spent more time with him than she did Tall. But then it turned out Reena liked Tall, but Tall liked Jake. And Shrew later ends up with Ryestalk. That makes me think of that scene where Reena asks Talltail if he wants to go for a walk, and he denies her, then Jake is all like, "I'll go with you," and Reena denies him. I feel a little bad for everyone in that scenario. Anyway, I'm glad Shrewclaw got with Ryestalk, because if he didn't, they wouldn't have had their wonderful son, Tornear. It's too bad their lineage ended with Tornear and Mudclaw. Makes me a bit bummed out, it also doesn't help that they both grew up without a father, oof.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 20:43:10 GMT -5
That makes me think of that scene where Reena asks Talltail if he wants to go for a walk, and he denies her, then Jake is all like, "I'll go with you," and Reena denies him. I feel a little bad for everyone in that scenario. Anyway, I'm glad Shrewclaw got with Ryestalk, because if he didn't, they wouldn't have had their wonderful son, Tornear. It's too bad their lineage ended with Tornear and Mudclaw. Makes me a bit bummed out, it also doesn't help that they both grew up without a father, oof. I know I really hope there's a reveal that Tornear and Mudclaw actually did have kits, or at least one of them did. I like to think that Tornear is the father of Webfoot and Whitetail.
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Post by kinkajou on Oct 1, 2019 15:55:37 GMT -5
I really don't care about peoples' ages and the things he said to Tallstar were way too awful and he attacked him with claws. So no he deserves all the hate he gets
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 21:50:00 GMT -5
i think he deserves every bit of the hate he gets. mocking talltail as a child/teenager was one thing, but antagonizing and attacking him as a young adult is unacceptable. i've reread tallstar's revenge many times, and i always get whiplash when shrewclaw is getting all hurt and upset when talltail is leaving the clan, after bullying him his entire life. it kinda comes off like shrewclaw had some messed up and repressed feelings for him. Like romantic feelings?
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Lesbian
Owl
always writing, never finishing
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Post by Owl on Oct 1, 2019 22:24:06 GMT -5
i think he deserves every bit of the hate he gets. mocking talltail as a child/teenager was one thing, but antagonizing and attacking him as a young adult is unacceptable. i've reread tallstar's revenge many times, and i always get whiplash when shrewclaw is getting all hurt and upset when talltail is leaving the clan, after bullying him his entire life. it kinda comes off like shrewclaw had some messed up and repressed feelings for him. Like romantic feelings? yeah, but i kinda just said that as a joke. they did have a pretty interesting dynamic, though. i feel like the two of them needed a final confrontation, but then shrewclaw was killed off rather abruptly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 7:01:58 GMT -5
yeah, but i kinda just said that as a joke. they did have a pretty interesting dynamic, though. i feel like the two of them needed a final confrontation, but then shrewclaw was killed off rather abruptly. Lol, I got that vibe too, not gonna lie. Yeah, I think when Tallstar was getting their nine lives was kinda like their final confrontation? I'm not sure how well they're getting along in StarClan now considering the whole Onestar/Mudclaw thing
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Oct 2, 2019 15:43:56 GMT -5
I guess he deserves some hate.
Honestly, I haven't read Tallstar's Revenge, so I don't know too much about how bad he is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 15:49:34 GMT -5
I guess he deserves some hate. Honestly, I haven't read Tallstar's Revenge, so I don't know too much about how bad he is. He's worse than I thought he'd be, but he's not as bad as some of the other characters in the series
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 17:37:08 GMT -5
I actually think Shrewclaw was let off too easy. He barely ever got scolded as an apprentice or kit for his treatment of Tallstar and even if he didn't know the harm he was causing (which I have a hard time believing even if he thought they were just teasing) he still was cruel enough to be one of the reasons Talltail left WindClan. And he knew he was upsetting him because Talltail expressed that in many different ways. He was a bad Clanmate. So was every other cat who didn't notice or understand how much Talltail originally suffered in WindClan. Reading Tallstar's Revenge made me incredibly angry. Not as angry as reading Squirrelflight's Hope but close. That is true, I do think that the other cats, especially Shrewclaw's mentor, should have noticed that he kept fighting with his claws out. I like to think of situations from the perspectives of everyone. Like, Frecklewish, and the WindClan patrol consisting of Mudclaw, Tornear, and Webfoot, that stopped Bluestar from going to the moonstone, and after reading Yellowfang's Secret, I can understand why ShadowClan felt the need to get revenge on WindClan, even though WindClan clearly did nothing wrong, and didn't deserve it.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Oct 3, 2019 13:50:59 GMT -5
I actually think Shrewclaw was let off too easy. He barely ever got scolded as an apprentice or kit for his treatment of Tallstar and even if he didn't know the harm he was causing (which I have a hard time believing even if he thought they were just teasing) he still was cruel enough to be one of the reasons Talltail left WindClan. And he knew he was upsetting him because Talltail expressed that in many different ways. He was a bad Clanmate. So was every other cat who didn't notice or understand how much Talltail originally suffered in WindClan. Reading Tallstar's Revenge made me incredibly angry. Not as angry as reading Squirrelflight's Hope but close. That is true, I do think that the other cats, especially Shrewclaw's mentor, should have noticed that he kept fighting with his claws out. I like to think of situations from the perspectives of everyone. Like, Frecklewish, and the WindClan patrol consisting of Mudclaw, Tornear, and Webfoot, that stopped Bluestar from going to the moonstone, and after reading Yellowfang's Secret, I can understand why ShadowClan felt the need to get revenge on WindClan, even though WindClan clearly did nothing wrong, and didn't deserve it. I would normally agree but I think there's no perspective that can justify what Shrewclaw did to Talltail.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 13:57:35 GMT -5
That is true, I do think that the other cats, especially Shrewclaw's mentor, should have noticed that he kept fighting with his claws out. I like to think of situations from the perspectives of everyone. Like, Frecklewish, and the WindClan patrol consisting of Mudclaw, Tornear, and Webfoot, that stopped Bluestar from going to the moonstone, and after reading Yellowfang's Secret, I can understand why ShadowClan felt the need to get revenge on WindClan, even though WindClan clearly did nothing wrong, and didn't deserve it. I would normally agree but I think there's no perspective that can justify what Shrewclaw did to Talltail. At first, I thought it was just him messing around, and joking, like he said. Like, I never thought he meant anything serious by it, and that he honestly didn't know how much it was hurting Talltail, because well, he seems to be pretty oblivious. But then, there was that scene where he told him that no one would miss him, that's when I thought, that maybe he wasn't just joking.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Oct 6, 2019 15:18:07 GMT -5
I was bad when they killed him off. They could of went somewhere with him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 15:26:41 GMT -5
I was bad when they killed him off. They could of went somewhere with him. I know At least he lives on through his kits. Sadly, they were never mentioned in Tallstar's Revenge, there was just a hugeeee time jump after it was announced that Ryestalk was having his kits, and then..nothing
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Oct 6, 2019 15:33:36 GMT -5
I was bad when they killed him off. They could of went somewhere with him. I know At least he lives on through his kits. Sadly, they were never mentioned in Tallstar's Revenge, there was just a hugeeee time jump after it was announced that Ryestalk was having his kits, and then..nothing Yeah it’s annoying when they do stuff like that.
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