Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 13:31:49 GMT -5
I honestly liked Squirrelflight's Hope. I liked Squirrelflight as the main character and it was nice to be in her head again. She's a good character and a good cat.
Sadly, she seems to be the only one in this book.
Like I liked it.
But that doesn't change the fact that holy shit the Clans were completely terrible in this book as a whole. Like, you can't wait a month until a heavily pregnant queen gets off territory that ISN'T yours in the first place? You cannot make an agreement re: the hunting grounds for a month? Seriously. Come on. Tigerstar, you couldn't share the marsh for a month?
No, of course you couldn't. Tigerstar has shown time and time again that he's an awful cat and to be frank he's following in his grandfather's footsteps of being a shitty leader. Like wow. You're so battle crazed and a complete arsehole and just awful. What happened? Did someone possess YOU when you got your nine lives? Holy hell.
Mistystar, what happened? Harestar, my man, come on.
The fact that Bramblestar was a giant **** this entire book and literally wouldn't let his cats treat Sunrise until STARCLAN told them it was okay is insane. And he did it just as a power move on Squirrelflight to show her he was the leader and not her. He legit put a cat's life on the line to shove it to Squirrelflight.
Not to mention how bloodthirsty everyone was to attack a pregnant queen and her kits to the point where the queen DIES in the ensuing battle.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Sisters HATE the Clans now. Like, they legit now have motivation for wanting to destroy the Clans. Definitely. Who wouldn't after this?
Just wow.
And don't get me started on StarClan. All of the cats judging Leafpool and Squirrelflight were massive hypocrites. They all broke the same rules and still ended up in StarClan. Yellowfang TOLD Squirrelflight to take Leafpools kits but they're still in trouble for doing that? Even after StarClan TOLD them to do it? It's still their fault? Damn, my man. Messed up priorities.
Anyway, I really liked the book, to be completely honest. I like Squirrelflight and her family and empathy. I liked Larksong and Sparkpelt. I liked the Sisters. I liked Leafpool, etc.
But damn did I get so angry at some points of this book.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 13:37:37 GMT -5
I haven't read the books, but from the spoilers I've seen, ugh. It's ridiculous how these clans (except for SkyClan) treat non-clan cats like they're inferior to them. It's especially ridiculous when cats like Alderheart (who criticized SkyClan for allowing kittypets to join) and Blossomfall (who apparently was a jerk about a ceremony or a vigil the sisters did) do it, considering the fact that they wouldn't even exist if not for non-clan cats.
So, I know that ThunderClan, ShadowClan, WindClan, and RiverClan were jerks in this, but what about SkyClan?
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 14:03:23 GMT -5
I haven't read the books, but from the spoilers I've seen, ugh. It's ridiculous how these clans (except for SkyClan) treat non-clan cats like they're inferior to them. It's especially ridiculous when cats like Alderheart (who criticized SkyClan for allowing kittypets to join) and Blossomfall (who apparently was a jerk about a ceremony or a vigil the sisters did) do it, considering the fact that they wouldn't even exist if not for non-clan cats.
So, I know that ThunderClan, ShadowClan, WindClan, and RiverClan were jerks in this, but what about SkyClan? SkyClan kind of tried to stay out of it. They didn't want to push the Sisters off the land until they were ready and wouldn't fight them but stated they didn't care if the other Clans did and they wouldn't stop them if so.
At the end the Sisters move in with SkyClan for a bit so that Violetshine can nurse Moonlight's kits and they stay until the kits are weaned. SkyClan feels bad about what happened and that the fight shouldn't have happened. Bramblestar also says it shouldn't have happened after the fact, too.
We do have a few characters in ThunderClan who really shine re: the Sisters, though. Mousewhisker is very vocal about not letting Sunrise die and how they should treat her when they find her dying on their territory and so is Twigbranch.
I actually really liked Mousewhisker in this. He was incredibly compassionate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 14:07:42 GMT -5
I haven't read the books, but from the spoilers I've seen, ugh. It's ridiculous how these clans (except for SkyClan) treat non-clan cats like they're inferior to them. It's especially ridiculous when cats like Alderheart (who criticized SkyClan for allowing kittypets to join) and Blossomfall (who apparently was a jerk about a ceremony or a vigil the sisters did) do it, considering the fact that they wouldn't even exist if not for non-clan cats.
So, I know that ThunderClan, ShadowClan, WindClan, and RiverClan were jerks in this, but what about SkyClan? SkyClan kind of tried to stay out of it. They didn't want to push the Sisters off the land until they were ready and wouldn't fight them but stated they didn't care if the other Clans did and they wouldn't stop them if so.
At the end the Sisters move in with SkyClan for a bit so that Violetshine can nurse Moonlight's kits and they stay until the kits are weaned. SkyClan feels bad about what happened and that the fight shouldn't have happened. Bramblestar also says it shouldn't have happened after the fact, too.
We do have a few characters in ThunderClan who really shine re: the Sisters, though. Mousewhisker is very vocal about not letting Sunrise die and how they should treat her when they find her dying on their territory and so is Twigbranch.
I actually really liked Mousewhisker in this. He was incredibly compassionate. Aww Mousewhisker! I've always loved him.
Do you know who the other ThunderClan cat was, besides Blossomfall, who disrespected the sister's ceremony?
I'm glad SkyClan wasn't huge a-holes like the other clans.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 5, 2019 15:10:59 GMT -5
Speaking of Tigerstar's awfulness, he's indirectly responsible for Leafpool's death via ordering his clanmates to cave in the cavern. He was threatening to kill all of the Sisters in one fell swoop.
Bramblestar stalled on the Sunrise decision because he was afraid of angering Tigerstar over it and breaking the clans' unity, it wasn't a power move on Squirrelflight. This just makes him cowardly and indecisive though, something that's been a hallmark of his leadership ever since he sold Violetkit to Shadowclan like a piece of meat. He does nothing but bend over backwards to deal with Tigerstar's tantrums in the whole book. If he had just told Tigerstar to shut up and threatened him like he was threatening Skyclan, much could have been avoided.
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Post by Haze on Sept 5, 2019 15:25:53 GMT -5
Harestar was pretty crafty in this book, he was clearly not satisfied with the agreement with Thunderclan and told the other clans about it, because next chapter Riverclan and Shadowclan already knew about it.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 15:46:25 GMT -5
SkyClan kind of tried to stay out of it. They didn't want to push the Sisters off the land until they were ready and wouldn't fight them but stated they didn't care if the other Clans did and they wouldn't stop them if so.
At the end the Sisters move in with SkyClan for a bit so that Violetshine can nurse Moonlight's kits and they stay until the kits are weaned. SkyClan feels bad about what happened and that the fight shouldn't have happened. Bramblestar also says it shouldn't have happened after the fact, too.
We do have a few characters in ThunderClan who really shine re: the Sisters, though. Mousewhisker is very vocal about not letting Sunrise die and how they should treat her when they find her dying on their territory and so is Twigbranch.
I actually really liked Mousewhisker in this. He was incredibly compassionate. Aww Mousewhisker! I've always loved him.
Do you know who the other ThunderClan cat was, besides Blossomfall, who disrespected the sister's ceremony?
I'm glad SkyClan wasn't huge a-holes like the other clans.
I forget but I don't think they disrespected it as much as Blossomfall did. Just went wtf when they started wailing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 15:47:56 GMT -5
Aww Mousewhisker! I've always loved him.
Do you know who the other ThunderClan cat was, besides Blossomfall, who disrespected the sister's ceremony?
I'm glad SkyClan wasn't huge a-holes like the other clans.
I forget but I don't think they disrespected it as much as Blossomfall did. Just went wtf when they started wailing. Thanks I just hope it wasn't Molewhisker, I have a lot of respect for him after A Vision of Shadows, and I don't want that to go away.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 15:48:23 GMT -5
Speaking of Tigerstar's awfulness, he's indirectly responsible for Leafpool's death via ordering his clanmates to cave in the cavern. He was threatening to kill all of the Sisters in one fell swoop. Bramblestar stalled on the Sunrise decision because he was afraid of angering Tigerstar over it and breaking the clans' unity, it wasn't a power move on Squirrelflight. This just makes him cowardly and indecisive though, something that's been a hallmark of his leadership ever since he sold Violetkit to Shadowclan like a piece of meat. He does nothing but bend over backwards to deal with Tigerstar's tantrums in the whole book. If he had just told Tigerstar to shut up and threatened him like he was threatening Skyclan, much could have been avoided. I view it as a bit of a power move on Squirrelflight since she made the decision to bring her to camp when Bramblestar said not for her to make any decisions without running them by him. I felt like he was being a little bit petty during the situation. But you're right. He spends the entire book bending over backwards to appease Tigerstar even when everyone admits Tigerstar is a bully and pushing SkyClan and everyone else around. Seriously, dude is awful.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 5, 2019 16:41:57 GMT -5
Speaking of Tigerstar's awfulness, he's indirectly responsible for Leafpool's death via ordering his clanmates to cave in the cavern. He was threatening to kill all of the Sisters in one fell swoop. Bramblestar stalled on the Sunrise decision because he was afraid of angering Tigerstar over it and breaking the clans' unity, it wasn't a power move on Squirrelflight. This just makes him cowardly and indecisive though, something that's been a hallmark of his leadership ever since he sold Violetkit to Shadowclan like a piece of meat. He does nothing but bend over backwards to deal with Tigerstar's tantrums in the whole book. If he had just told Tigerstar to shut up and threatened him like he was threatening Skyclan, much could have been avoided. I view it as a bit of a power move on Squirrelflight since she made the decision to bring her to camp when Bramblestar said not for her to make any decisions without running them by him. I felt like he was being a little bit petty during the situation. But you're right. He spends the entire book bending over backwards to appease Tigerstar even when everyone admits Tigerstar is a bully and pushing SkyClan and everyone else around. Seriously, dude is awful. Don't get me wrong, Bramblestar's an absolute tool and was pulling petty power moves out of his rear("Doing patrols at dawn is sloppy, do them the night before, I totally didn't make up this problem on the spot!"), but the Sunrise thing was motivated more so by his absolute terror that it'd make Tigerstar upset. He did wish Squirrelflight had run it by him first, but that's because he didn't want to deal with this decision, not Squirrelflight going behind his back in and of itself(that specific time, anyway).
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 16:59:42 GMT -5
I view it as a bit of a power move on Squirrelflight since she made the decision to bring her to camp when Bramblestar said not for her to make any decisions without running them by him. I felt like he was being a little bit petty during the situation. But you're right. He spends the entire book bending over backwards to appease Tigerstar even when everyone admits Tigerstar is a bully and pushing SkyClan and everyone else around. Seriously, dude is awful. Don't get me wrong, Bramblestar's an absolute tool and was pulling petty power moves out of his rear("Doing patrols at dawn is sloppy, do them the night before, I totally didn't make up this problem on the spot!"), but the Sunrise thing was motivated more so by his absolute terror that it'd make Tigerstar upset. He did wish Squirrelflight had run it by him first, but that's because he didn't want to deal with this decision, not Squirrelflight going behind his back in and of itself(that specific time, anyway). Like Bramblestar is one to talk. Didn't he have trouble with patrols at first? Squirrelflight does them well and it makes sense how she does it. And the amount of appease Bramblestar does to Tigerstar in this book is abnormal, imo.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Sept 5, 2019 17:47:45 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene
Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 18:06:31 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird. Bluestar pissed me off. She had absolutely no right to be furious with Leafpool to break the code when she broke the code herself. I'm glad Tallstar called her out on her hypocripsy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 18:11:25 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird. It was strange seeing Littlecloud angry, but he wasn't wrong.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Sept 5, 2019 18:12:52 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird. It was strange seeing Littlecloud angry, but he wasn't wrong.
But he was too angry. Over something that a good chunk of cats have done. Including Yellowfang AND Bluestar
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 18:25:48 GMT -5
It was strange seeing Littlecloud angry, but he wasn't wrong.
But he was too angry. Over something that a good chunk of cats have done. Including Yellowfang AND Bluestar That's true, it was weird seeming the normally calm and nice Littlecloud being like that.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 18:51:34 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird. I was happy that Yellowfang seemed back to her old self. Moth Flight and Bluestar were giant hypocrites and Littlecloud was just...wrong. With Bluestar when it's revealed that she FRICKIN LIVES WITH OAKHEART now I was like 'uh huh okay and your criticizing leafpool'?
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 18:53:26 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird. Bluestar pissed me off. She had absolutely no right to be furious with Leafpool to break the code when she broke the code herself. I'm glad Tallstar called her out on her hypocripsy. Tallstar continues to be the best boi.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Sept 5, 2019 20:42:58 GMT -5
Yellowfang and Tallstar were the only remotely reasonable judges in that whole judgement scene Moth Flight and Bluestar were massive hypocrites and Littlecloud...it was weird. I was happy that Yellowfang seemed back to her old self. Moth Flight and Bluestar were giant hypocrites and Littlecloud was just...wrong. With Bluestar when it's revealed that she FRICKIN LIVES WITH OAKHEART now I was like 'uh huh okay and your criticizing leafpool'? She's ridiculous. I'm not a Bluestar fan to begin with and she just continuously fails to make me like her Crookedstar is literally the only one in that group that has any right to super, hardcore dislike forbidden relationships because they constantly ruin his life (Appledusk/Mapleshade and Silverstream, for example)
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 5, 2019 22:26:28 GMT -5
I was happy that Yellowfang seemed back to her old self. Moth Flight and Bluestar were giant hypocrites and Littlecloud was just...wrong. With Bluestar when it's revealed that she FRICKIN LIVES WITH OAKHEART now I was like 'uh huh okay and your criticizing leafpool'? She's ridiculous. I'm not a Bluestar fan to begin with and she just continuously fails to make me like her Crookedstar is literally the only one in that group that has any right to super, hardcore dislike forbidden relationships because they constantly ruin his life (Appledusk/Mapleshade and Silverstream, for example) I actually liked OG Bluestar, especially in her super edition, but I cannot like StarClan Bluestar. It seems that every time a cat goes to StarClan their personality is utterly and completely warped into something awful. Crookedstar IS the only dude with any ground to stand on. I couldn't get over how dumb Moth Flight sounded. "You broke MY rule" oh please. Yellowfang was the only one who had some sense and considering StarClan Yellowfang tends to be AWFUL, that's saying something. But seriously. I cannot get over that StarClan wants to punish Leafpool and Squirrelflight....for doing the exact thing they told Leafpool and Squirrelflight to do. Jesus. I'm actually surprised that I like this book because there's so much to rage about in it.
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Post by wolfcry32 on Sept 6, 2019 5:45:40 GMT -5
StarClan: You two HAVE to do this, or else we’re doomed! Also StarClan: I can’t believe you’ve done this. How could you????
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 6, 2019 12:37:33 GMT -5
StarClan: You two HAVE to do this, or else we’re doomed! Also StarClan: I can’t believe you’ve done this. How could you???? so much this
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Post by Tas on Sept 6, 2019 16:30:34 GMT -5
I actually don't blame Tigerstar very much. He said many many times that he would be happy to make an agreement the way Harestar and Bramblestar had, but that Mistystar wasn't letting him. Also, he didn't know that the kits had already been born before Moonlight attacked him.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 6, 2019 17:09:58 GMT -5
I actually don't blame Tigerstar very much. He said many many times that he would be happy to make an agreement the way Harestar and Bramblestar had, but that Mistystar wasn't letting him. Also, he didn't know that the kits had already been born before Moonlight attacked him. He never says that, at all. He whines about the exact opposite, in fact, demanding Bramblestar defend his border so that he can defend his(apparently in his mind those two things are connected somehow?). Where are you getting that Tigerstar wanted to make an agreement, let alone said so many times? He saw a cat so bloated they looked like a badger and he didn't think maybe he should rethink this? What difference does it make if the kits were born or not anyway, with how heavily pregnant they were, he'd be killing kits regardless.
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