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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 4, 2019 10:24:14 GMT -5
It's mentioned by Moonlight that apprentice aged toms are already old enough to be booted out, so how is it then that they maintain their numbers? Do they just mate with the apprentice aged toms? If that's the case, I guess you could call them a group of cougars. Jokes aside, if this is the case, what are your opinions on it?
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Post by Haze on Sept 4, 2019 10:44:10 GMT -5
They mate with males that they find in their travels, one of the sisters mentions that the father of her kits was a kittypet that lived in a barn, that he was handsome and she was ready to have kits again.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 4, 2019 10:46:03 GMT -5
They mate with males that they find in their travels, one of the sisters mentions that the father of her kits was a kittypet that lived in a barn, that he was handsome and she was ready to have kits again. But they also freak out about an adult tom entering their camp. That seems odd if they are indeed seeking adults out to mate with.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Sept 4, 2019 11:05:19 GMT -5
All of them are related, including the toms in the group. It's mentioned in the book at some point when Moonlight is telling their story.
So I doubt they mate with cats that are pretty much their sons. That'd be weird. They meet toms on their travels is more likely.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 4, 2019 11:36:26 GMT -5
Like others have mentioned, the Sisters mate with outsiders during their travels, but won't actually let them join and everyone is related. Mating seems to be more like a necessity for most of them than anything.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 4, 2019 15:21:35 GMT -5
In a way it reminds me of a lion hierarchy just without the male lions? Probably more like an elephant or hyena hierarchy tbh. Cause in those cases the females are in charge, and the males are either booted at a certain age or kept in submission. I find their way of life to be rather interesting, they're kinda like amazonians sorta.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 4, 2019 18:24:28 GMT -5
In a way it reminds me of a lion hierarchy just without the male lions? Probably more like an elephant or hyena hierarchy tbh. Cause in those cases the females are in charge, and the males are either booted at a certain age or kept in submission. I find their way of life to be rather interesting, they're kinda like amazonians sorta. The issue with me is that the males in the group have never seen an adult male in camp. With elephants, the herd would indeed have seen bulls enter the herd to mate for a time before leaving. However, with the way it is structured, it come off more like they either mate with apprentice age cats or else just go out looking for males and then mating with them without ever taking them to camp. The latter just seems a bit impersonal to me, with how they talk about loving their mates and so on, yet never ever bothering to bring them home. Therefore, it gave the impression that they only find young cats, though admittedly them just talking up how much they loved their mates and not ever bothering to show them home wouldn't be out of character for them either.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 18:50:46 GMT -5
I never got the impression they mated with young cats/the apprentice-aged toms in the group... Just the thought of that is pretty uncomfortable, for many reasons. I haven't finished the book yet so maybe I'm missing something but I thought they gave a pretty solid explanation of how things worked. the young toms leave to start their own lives, and the Sisters find their mates as they travel. its pretty straight forward?
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 4, 2019 19:05:20 GMT -5
I never got the impression they mated with young cats/the apprentice-aged toms in the group... Just the thought of that is pretty uncomfortable, for many reasons. I haven't finished the book yet so maybe I'm missing something but I thought they gave a pretty solid explanation of how things worked. the young toms leave to start their own lives, and the Sisters find their mates as they travel. its pretty straight forward? Have you gotten to the part where Tree discusses things with them? It's that part that gives off a really uncomfortable atmosphere.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 4, 2019 19:59:17 GMT -5
it sounds really cool though. they don't have males in their group and are basically nomads. whenever one of them is ready or wants to have kits, they just go whereever they can in the area to find a random tom to court and then leave to have the kits on the road.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Sept 4, 2019 20:26:12 GMT -5
I think you might be reading too much into this. I really doubt the Sisters are mating with their sons...I mean, yeah.
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Post by morningflower on Sept 4, 2019 20:30:42 GMT -5
In a way it reminds me of a lion hierarchy just without the male lions? Probably more like an elephant or hyena hierarchy tbh. Cause in those cases the females are in charge, and the males are either booted at a certain age or kept in submission. I find their way of life to be rather interesting, they're kinda like amazonians sorta. The issue with me is that the males in the group have never seen an adult male in camp. With elephants, the herd would indeed have seen bulls enter the herd to mate for a time before leaving. However, with the way it is structured, it come off more like they either mate with apprentice age cats or else just go out looking for males and then mating with them without ever taking them to camp. The latter just seems a bit impersonal to me, with how they talk about loving their mates and so on, yet never ever bothering to bring them home. Therefore, it gave the impression that they only find young cats, though admittedly them just talking up how much they loved their mates and not ever bothering to show them home wouldn't be out of character for them either. Honestly they probably just don't bring them back to their camp. Which is a much less creepier and honestly not even that weird scenario. They might want to keep that space to themselves and enjoy time with their mates away from the camp. Especially considering the example we got in the book was a barncat - they could have spent their time together in the barn before departing.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 4, 2019 20:41:53 GMT -5
Yeah, it never crossed my mind that they would mate with the younger males in their group, imo that doesn't make sense? Cause they'd all be related. The younger males would be their sons, and when they get old enough they're kicked out, the females would stay though and become one of the sisters. Meaning adult males are usually not in the group at all. I guess maybe the she-cats find it safer to make sure the males they mate with don't find out their camps, or want rights to the kits as leverage? Who knows. But for the most part their relationships, despite how deeply they care for their mates, are basically flings. Which, imo, is fine I guess for cats outside the clan. It also keeps their genepool with more variety an less of a chance of overlapping since they don't stay in the same spot too long.
Also when lions mate they do something similar, a female lion will leave the group and mate with the male lion and they'd distant themselves from the group for a while. When she's pregnant she'll raise the cubs on her own for sometime and bring them back when they're old enough. Male lions in general though, are usually kicked out of their own groups when they're old enough and go out and find or make prides of their owns, so I guess that's a better comparison? Different method, but still similar in a way. Also, rival male lions tend to kill the cubs of previous male lions...so that's a thing. I can understand if the sisters are overprotective of their kits in a way.
But then again I guess this actually puts a different light on Tree. He was kicked out and separated from the only family he's known. And then had to travel around and go about things on his own. So he figures out how to do that, but also in the least possibly difficult way, it's no wonder he's so laid back when they first meet him. It also explains why he didn't show much interest in Pebbleshine, it's cause she was a pregnant she-cat. I guess Tree is also adjusting in trying to figure out what it really means to have a family around and being a father himself. It honestly really does put him in a different light....I kinda feel bad for him.
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Post by Haze on Sept 4, 2019 20:56:42 GMT -5
I think that when one of the group want to have kits, the sister will find an attractive male, have like two consecutive days of wild mating and then go back to the group with the seed, the sisters did say that they wander away from the group a bit sometimes.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 4, 2019 21:01:39 GMT -5
Yeah, it never crossed my mind that they would mate with the younger males in their group, imo that doesn't make sense? Cause they'd all be related. The younger males would be their sons, and when they get old enough they're kicked out, the females would stay though and become one of the sisters. Meaning adult males are usually not in the group at all. I guess maybe the she-cats find it safer to make sure the males they mate with don't find out their camps, or want rights to the kits as leverage? Who knows. But for the most part their relationships, despite how deeply they care for their mates, are basically flings. Which, imo, is fine I guess for cats outside the clan. It also keeps their genepool with more variety an less of a chance of overlapping since they don't stay in the same spot too long. Also when lions mate they do something similar, a female lion will leave the group and mate with the male lion and they'd distant themselves from the group for a while. When she's pregnant she'll raise the cubs on her own for sometime and bring them back when they're old enough. Different method, but still similar in a way. Also, rival male lions tend to kill the cubs of previous male lions...so that's a thing. I can understand if the sisters are overprotective of their kits in a way. The whole culty vibe+genetic powers gave me the impression they were all a little inbred in order to keep the power running through the family and not dilute it. We'll have to see how that goes with Needlepaw. If she doesn't get the gift, then there's some form of dilution possible and it would indicate they have to do SOME form of keeping it in the family. The thing with lions is that if a male decides he wants to kill a cub, then the other lionesses generally aren't going to pitch in to defend them. Because of that, giving birth away from the pride is safer so as to avoid the chance of giving birth in the middle of a takeover. However, with the Sisters, going away increases risk instead of lowering it because the other sisters(theoretically) would in fact fight tooth and nail to save the kits rather than the general lack of care that the other lionesses would express.
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