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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 12:05:48 GMT -5
Since she's the big talk right now...
I adore her. She's just so strong, and I love how she fights for what's right. She clearly still loves the Three, despite the way they treated her and Leafpool. Squirrelflight is probably one of the best written characters in the whole series who hasn't been messed up yet, and I hope it stays that way. She really doesn't deserve any of the hate she gets from the fandom.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 2, 2019 12:27:18 GMT -5
I've always really liked her, though I don't really care much for her love life. She's a good sister and mother, and I wouldn't mind seeing her as leader one day (as unlikely as it might be).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 12:27:57 GMT -5
She's alright She annoyed me a bit when she was an apprentice, especially when she wouldn't listen, and she just ran off, when she wasn't even part of the prophecy. It also said that she disregarded the rules a lot.
However, I liked her when she was a warrior, she seemed to have matured a lot
She's not one of my favorites, but I don't dislike her either.
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Sept 2, 2019 12:51:30 GMT -5
I like her, she’s feisty, passionate and stands up for what she believes in. She gets a load of unnecessary hate when she’s written better than most other protagonists. Although I didn’t really like how she blackmailed Brambleclaw into allowing her to join the ‘quest’ when she was an apprentice. Aside from that, she’s cool. Her relationship with Brambleclaw seems forced though , and It’s really cliche how the daughter of Firestar falls in love with the son of Tigerstar.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 13:04:09 GMT -5
Hated her as an apprentice, she was the most annoying thing ever. As a warrior I loved her. She's a strong female protagonist.
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Post by Seven on Sept 2, 2019 13:46:09 GMT -5
she's grown so much. i love her
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Sept 2, 2019 13:53:17 GMT -5
I've loved her since I first read Midnight. She reminds me a bit of Firestar. :3
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Sept 2, 2019 14:15:08 GMT -5
I love her. She's a good mom and sister. I love her relationship with her parents and sister. She definitely takes after her dad and mom. Her dad's 'always do what's right' nature and her mom's feistyness.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 2, 2019 14:46:02 GMT -5
More deserving of leadership than Bramblestar.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Sept 2, 2019 17:37:07 GMT -5
Squirrelstar *chanting*
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 2, 2019 17:53:37 GMT -5
A liar who betrayed Brambleclaw's trust in a very intimate way and who should not have gotten back together with him. Bizarrely insecure too. Not a bad cat exactly, but I can't get over her lying to Brambleclaw with zero intention of revealing anything. I suppose she'd be a fine enough leader, but I would rather SPOILER FOR TBC: possessed!Bramble kills her for angst and also to change out the guard. Have Bramble and her go to the grave together, they're relics.
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Post by KittyClearsight on Sept 2, 2019 18:28:29 GMT -5
I love her, always have and always will. I think she deserves leadership. True, she made a ton of mistakes but everything she did was out of love and trying to make the best out of a difficult situation. The worst in my opinion was lying to Brambleclaw about the kits, but she did it so he wouldn't be burdened with the lie as well.
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 2, 2019 19:21:26 GMT -5
A liar who betrayed Brambleclaw's trust in a very intimate way and who should not have gotten back together with him. Bizarrely insecure too. Not a bad cat exactly, but I can't get over her lying to Brambleclaw with zero intention of revealing anything. I suppose she'd be a fine enough leader, but I would rather SPOILER FOR TBC/ possessed!Bramble kills her for angst and also to change out the guard. Have Bramble and her go to the grave together, they're relics. I agree, but honestly though if she had told Bramblestar the truth I would love her lol
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#FCCA57
star_green.png
Name Colour, Custom Stars
Papillon
Forum Pest
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Post by Papillon on Sept 2, 2019 21:43:06 GMT -5
she rubs me really wrong and I don't know why
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 22:18:36 GMT -5
I used to like her but now's she's just eh
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 3, 2019 8:00:29 GMT -5
If we're going to hate Squirrelflight for lying to Brambleclaw, then don't forgive Leafpool because she's the reason it all started.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 3, 2019 9:23:25 GMT -5
If we're going to hate Squirrelflight for lying to Brambleclaw, then don't forgive Leafpool because she's the reason it all started. Leafpool didn't lie to the person she should have trusted most. She trusted Squirrelflight with the secret, while Squirrelflight couldn't find it in her heart to trust Brambleclaw. It's not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of not forgetting.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 3, 2019 10:16:18 GMT -5
If we're going to hate Squirrelflight for lying to Brambleclaw, then don't forgive Leafpool because she's the reason it all started. Leafpool didn't lie to the person she should have trusted most. She trusted Squirrelflight with the secret, while Squirrelflight couldn't find it in her heart to trust Brambleclaw. It's not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of not forgetting. It was pre-damage control. Everyone forgets that Brambleclaw himself has trust issues and that he's rather obsessed with kin. They were still his kits even if he didn't biologically father them, the lie doesn't change that. He was saved from the extreme judgement. But okay, Squirrelflight is horrible for that reason alone despite her maye momentarily thinking about killing her father and assuming leadership yet never mentioned anything or talked to her about what happened.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 10:20:10 GMT -5
If we're going to hate Squirrelflight for lying to Brambleclaw, then don't forgive Leafpool because she's the reason it all started. Leafpool didn't lie to the person she should have trusted most. She trusted Squirrelflight with the secret, while Squirrelflight couldn't find it in her heart to trust Brambleclaw. It's not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of not forgetting. She did lie to the person she trusted the most: Cinderpelt. Even worse, she abandoned her when Cinderpelt needed her the most because she assumed that Brightheart was replacing her. Have you ever thought that Squirrelflight was trying to protect Brambleclaw from her lie? He tried really hard to prove himself to TC, and when he eventually earned their trust, Leafpool messed things up and decided to use her sister to cover up her mistake for her. Squirrelflight wouldn't have wanted to bring the burden onto Brambleclaw and make him go through that all over again. You're too harsh on Squirrelflight. She was dragged along into all of this mess, and this is coming from someone who loves Leafpool. Let's not also forget that Brambleclaw lied to Squirrelflight himself about the DF. He treats her like shit on a daily basis. I don't know why Squirrelflight keeps padding after him.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 3, 2019 11:12:46 GMT -5
Leafpool didn't lie to the person she should have trusted most. She trusted Squirrelflight with the secret, while Squirrelflight couldn't find it in her heart to trust Brambleclaw. It's not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of not forgetting. She did lie to the person she trusted the most: Cinderpelt. Even worse, she abandoned her when Cinderpelt needed her the most because she assumed that Brightheart was replacing her. Have you ever thought that Squirrelflight was trying to protect Brambleclaw from her lie? He tried really hard to prove himself to TC, and when he eventually earned their trust, Leafpool messed things up and decided to use her sister to cover up her mistake for her. Squirrelflight wouldn't have wanted to bring the burden onto Brambleclaw and make him go through that all over again. You're too harsh on Squirrelflight. She was dragged along into all of this mess, and this is coming from someone who loves Leafpool. Let's not also forget that Brambleclaw lied to Squirrelflight himself about the DF. He treats her like shit on a daily basis. I don't know why Squirrelflight keeps padding after him. Leafpool up and told Cinderpelt her secret pretty quickly. It's not remotely comparable to lying for years about it. The burden on Brambleclaw would have been lesser if Squirrelflight had told him privately about it. Remember how Thrushpelt knew about the kit situation? That would have been the ideal scenario, but Squirrelflight refused to be honest with him. Brambleclaw's own lies are completely irrelevant because Squirrelflight doesn't know about them. She didn't lie to him because of his own lying because she doesn't even know he did. There was no poor treatment during the Power of Three either.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 3, 2019 12:06:52 GMT -5
It's not irrelevant but okay, excuse his behavior. Also, everyone knew Bluefur was expecting and Thrushpelt offered to cover to be the father without knowing the whole truth. It's not a comparable situation at all.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 3, 2019 14:14:40 GMT -5
It's not irrelevant but okay, excuse his behavior. Also, everyone knew Bluefur was expecting and Thrushpelt offered to cover to be the father without knowing the whole truth. It's not a comparable situation at all. It's 100% irrelevant to Squirrelflight's morality. I could not care less for Brambleclaw and as far as morality goes, I don't like him, but what Squirrelflight did was not in response to his own failings(nor did she even have knowledge of them). To make a comparison, if a drunk driver hit a murderer by accident, that does not excuse the drunk driver because they certainly didn't go out driving looking for a murderer to hit. That the victim was also bad was sheer luck. Likewise with Squirrelflight, what she did only luckily happened to a cat who lacks morals. She's still not good for doing it. Squirrelflight had every opportunity to not lie to Brambleclaw and bring him in on the secret. She could have made it a Thrushpelt situation, but she chose not to.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 3, 2019 15:52:43 GMT -5
You're missing my point and trying to force a comparison that doesn't match at all. Just talking to you is beating a dead horse.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 3, 2019 17:23:59 GMT -5
You're missing my point and trying to force a comparison that doesn't match at all. Just talking to you is beating a dead horse. Tell me why Brambleclaw's morality is relevant to Squirrelflight's. It's not a zero sum game.
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Post by graygoyle on Sept 3, 2019 18:38:33 GMT -5
overall, she's a balanced character that i enjoy reading and watching develop. a "hated/disliked" character is not an inherently bad character, just a character with flaws; so long as their development is treated right and their respective character arcs have proper closure, they're a good character to me.
that being said she was in the "wrong" for lying to brambleclaw, but she ended up growing and learning from mistake and their relationship was tested and bettered for it, so i don't perceive any negative feelings towards her actions as a bad thing... just a rational response from readers that would've taken the moral high ground in her situation.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 4, 2019 17:45:14 GMT -5
You're missing my point and trying to force a comparison that doesn't match at all. Just talking to you is beating a dead horse. Tell me why Brambleclaw's morality is relevant to Squirrelflight's. It's not a zero sum game. Because everyone focuses on solely what Squirrelflight has done wrong to Brambleclaw when Brambleclaw's little secret is far more treasonous and could have more drastic consequences than hers if he simply gave in to that urge, which by the way was deflected by Brambleclaw passively saying that Firestar was still needed. Protecting yourself because you would be considered a traitor for good reasons < Protecting your sister with the manipulation and lies from holy dead ancestors and trying to ensure that kits that technically shouldn't have been born due to the code have a normal life and save the Clans because of StarClan's urgency for Squirrelflight to take them on. Squirrelflight lied for the better of things, Brambleclaw lied because he's a coward.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 4, 2019 17:53:58 GMT -5
What bothers me about this whole thing is the fact that many ignore the very possibility of Brambleclaw never taking the secret well at any stage. If he knew, he could have thrown a fit by not being told from the get-go, he would lose his position and probably get upset, and we don't know how he'd feel because he's shown to be very obsessed with kin. I can unfortunately say in confidence that he may not have treated the Three how he canonically did if he knew from early on. We only ignore these possibilities because of a false narrative that Brambleclaw is a good guy when he's average at most and honestly overall toxic to Squirrelflight. With that false narrative and refusal to accept the what-ifs and the very good reasons why Squirrelflight held in the secret, we excuse Brambleclaw's disgusting behavior compared to the one thing Squirrelflight ever really did wrong.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 4, 2019 18:19:25 GMT -5
Tell me why Brambleclaw's morality is relevant to Squirrelflight's. It's not a zero sum game. Because everyone focuses on solely what Squirrelflight has done wrong to Brambleclaw when Brambleclaw's little secret is far more treasonous and could have more drastic consequences than hers if he simply gave in to that urge, which by the way was deflected by Brambleclaw passively saying that Firestar was still needed. Protecting yourself because you would be considered a traitor for good reasons < Protecting your sister with the manipulation and lies from holy dead ancestors and trying to ensure that kits that technically shouldn't have been born due to the code have a normal life and save the Clans because of StarClan's urgency for Squirrelflight to take them on. Squirrelflight lied for the better of things, Brambleclaw lied because he's a coward. Who is this nebulous "everyone" you refer to? I certainly don't like Brambleclaw, I think he should never have been leader and he's awful at being leader. I think he's worse than Squirrelflight too, but that hardly matters. I'm discussing Squirrelflight, not Brambleclaw. None of what Brambleclaw did affected Squirrelflight's own horrible decisions. Try to understand that there's room to say that both are bad and that such a statement does not name them as equally bad either. He's toxic because he lied to her, correct? Interesting how you defend Squirrelflight's lies in the very same breath. Why can't both of them lying be bad? What kind of a strawman is this? No one in the thread mentioned Brambleclaw being excused, just that Squirrelflight did bad things.
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