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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 16:18:58 GMT -5
I feel the need to explain this again. But if I, or someone else, made a thread about this topic already, then I apologize in advance.
Hollyleaf lives and breathes by the warrior code. she is somewhat obsessed with it, but not to the ultimate extreme of being ruthless or controlling. She was a very prideful warrior of Thunderclan.
Suddenly, she learns that her parents are NOT her real parents! Is she a rouge? a loner? she was a super prideful warrior, but she now doesnt know her real parents! She might not even have clan blood at all! She did not know! because she did not know, she felt like her world was broken.
but then ashfur also knew that squirrel and bramble werent the real parents. he was blackmailing them. he was going to tell everyone at the gathering. here are some possible outcomes if ashfur told the secret AS HE KNEW IT:
1) the other clans would accuse thunderclan of being everything under the sun: liars, disloyal, etc. 2) the other clans would shame thunderclan for being weak 3) thunderclan themselves might want the truth from squirrelflight and things would come out anyways
hollyleaf kills ashfur because she didnt want thunderclan to be shamed, to be blamed, to be made out as liars, or for her family to be shamed within thunderclan.
so what DOES happen? holly, lion, and jay find out their real parents. suddenly, hollyleaf knows she's the kit of a medicine cat AS WELL AS being half clan! thats TWO different codes broken: medicine cat code, and a warrior code. like i said earlier, the code meant EVERYTHING to hollyleaf because she was a prideful and loyal warrior. her very existence breaks the codes she holds so dear. if ashfur knew leaf and crow were the parents, the secret would be even WORSE.
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 22, 2016 17:41:54 GMT -5
"hollyleaf kills ashfur because she didnt want thunderclan to be shamed, to be blamed, to be made out as liars, or for her family to be shamed within thunderclan."
And that's why I'm so iffy on her. Kill a cat to protect your Clan from being shamed? Shamed for having half-Clan blood even though your Clan is infamous for it already ? it'd make more sense to me if this was included: she was trying to do it because there's a cat willing to put her families' lives, and possibly others, at stake just to emotionally hurt one cat(you know this may have been it and i just forgot idk) since she's intended to do something bad I guess she'll feel glad he's gone now but only because her secret is safe and she got to release her anger out on him etc. then feel guilty about it when she realizes that her intentions may not have been as pure as she wanted it to be.
Because of this quote i started getting the impression that when Hollyleaf was biting his neck she was lying to herself when she says "I'm doing this for my Clan! like she was just forcing herself to think that so she wouldn't have to admit that she's only doing this because of how bitter she is at her birth rather than noble reasons.
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 22, 2016 18:06:14 GMT -5
I find that ironic considering that she shamed her entire clan, herself, in front of every other clan in the gathering. yes, it's one of the best irony in the series tbh. but i guess i kinda understand why she did it? like when she killed ashfur she only knew that brambleclaw and squirrelflight weren't her parents. she could have been a child of rogues who left her and the clan took her in as an act of kindness. but then later in sunrise it turns out she's a medicine cats' half-Clan daughter. so when she learns leafpool broke two codes she felt that leafpool had to be punished for this and revealed it.
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 22, 2016 18:11:48 GMT -5
yes, it's one of the best irony in the series tbh. but i guess i kinda understand why she did it? like when she killed ashfur she only knew that brambleclaw and squirrelflight weren't her parents. she could have been a child of rogues who left her and the clan took her in as an act of kindness. but then later in sunrise it turns out she's a medicine cats' half-Clan daughter. so when she learns leafpool broke two codes she felt that leafpool had to be punished for this and revealed it. It truly was. Honestly, I understand her thought process, but her actions still irk me. But not as much as the attempted matricide. yup. that's understandable. honestly i can't even like ?? maybe i should reread that almost-matricide scene but i don't think i'd understand either way.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Aug 22, 2016 22:28:38 GMT -5
Yes!!!!
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Aug 23, 2016 13:26:07 GMT -5
Hollyleaf never planned to originally reveal the secret at the Gathering. She killed Ashfur before she knew Leafpool was her mother after all. And that was the final straw that broke her mentally. She was no longer in the right mind when she revealed everything at the gathering. Ironic, yes. But when you think of how her mental state was at that time, you can understand why she did it.
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