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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2016 23:35:37 GMT -5
I can understand not liking it for wanting Ivypool to remain single, but why do you say Fernsong deserve better? What has Ivypool done that made her not worthy of a good mate? |
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Post by Wicked Witch on Aug 21, 2016 0:06:44 GMT -5
but sandstorm had a major personality change which honestly annoyed me so much. mothers are seldom well written in warriors. well she's been around since book 1 and developed throughout the series. and even then she was shown not to be afraid to challenge firestar when he refused to attack windclan after windclan scent was found on their territory in eclipse. but this was balanced out with her motherly side when the battle did happen and she was worried over squirrelflight's severe injury. i don't think being a character mom made her character less well-written but just added to it and probably helped her mature. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 0:14:51 GMT -5
to be honest, i really don't know what i'm talking about. i'm embarrassed to admit it, but your point is actually better than mine. i'll see myself out.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Aug 21, 2016 0:15:02 GMT -5
but sandstorm had a major personality change which honestly annoyed me so much. mothers are seldom well written in warriors. That change did not come about from having kits, but by being saved by Firestar. She was a very different cat by the time she had her kits. It didn't start with the kits. Besides, did people really think she was going to be that stubborn and immature for her entire life? She grew up. That's all there really is to it.
The same could be said for Squirrelflight. She was still the same old hyper furball she was when she was in the nursery with Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather. She gradually matured as well, and that happened long before her kits were born.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 0:16:25 GMT -5
okay, i'm wrong. your points are great and i feel embarrassed that i said anything. i'll go now
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Aug 21, 2016 0:18:25 GMT -5
I haven't seen enough of it to make an opinion.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Aug 21, 2016 0:20:20 GMT -5
okay, i'm wrong. your points are great and i feel embarrassed that i said anything. i'll go now No reason to be embarrassed. It was only a mini debate. I can understand why you think the way you do. The change Sandstorm underwent was so gradual and subtle that we really don't notice it until around TDH or FQ. If you memory wasn't the greatest, it can be easy to forget when exactly it took place. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 0:24:45 GMT -5
honestly, i was being an enraged feminist getting ahead of herself so ^^'
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Post by Mistybreeze on Aug 21, 2016 0:31:30 GMT -5
honestly, i was being an enraged feminist getting ahead of herself so ^^' Ah. 
In all honesty, you really weren't wrong. She did change, you just got the timing wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 0:38:15 GMT -5
i read those books quite a while ago so i hope that's understandable ^^
i think she is quite similar to nala in the lion king. she was extremely spunky and feisty as a child, she grows up and becomes more fierce, calm and mature and starts to take a romantic interest in the main character, and when she has children she becomes more gentle and motherly. would that be correct ?
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Post by Mistybreeze on Aug 21, 2016 0:41:02 GMT -5
i read those books quite a while ago so i hope that's understandable ^^
i think she is quite similar to nala in the lion king. she was extremely spunky and feisty as a child, she grows up and becomes more fierce, calm and mature and starts to take a romantic interest in the main character, and when she has children she becomes more gentle and motherly. would that be correct ? That pretty much sums it up. Although I think she becomes a little bit motherly after training Willowpelt's kits and bonding with Sorrelkit. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 0:42:55 GMT -5
that's true. sorry if i get anything wrong. i can't remember the original series very well hehe
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Aug 21, 2016 16:39:52 GMT -5
I can understand not liking it for wanting Ivypool to remain single, but why do you say Fernsong deserve better? What has Ivypool done that made her not worthy of a good mate? exist. Shes a badly written character forced into a gender role switch cliche that she doesn't deserve. Fernsong only exists to be the cliche. Ivypool can hardly support herself as a character in a literary sense. How can she make Fernsong stand on his own. It wouldn't be so bad if Ivypool was like Sandstorm or Squirrelflight because they are well written. Ivypool is a pandering mess. |
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Post by Soαrιɴɢ Bloѕѕoмѕ ✿ on Aug 21, 2016 17:19:05 GMT -5
They're cute!!!
Honestly, I hope to see their relationship develop more (as bg characters) as the series progresses.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 22, 2016 1:15:36 GMT -5
I don't see the big problem about this pairing tbh.
Out of the two sisters, I'd rather Dovewing be the single one.
Ivypool hasn't had any issues in romantic relationships so far, and I think her being paired with Fernsong is a much better idea than Hawkfrost. And since the Erin's aren't gonna give us BlossomIvy, then I don't mind FernIvy.
There's nothing really dislikable about Fernsong so far either.
And the blood relation doesn't really matter, they're cats, same with the age gap. It could be worse, they could be first cousins, or years apart like Leopardfoot and Pinestar, but they're not.
Fernsong seems to be good around kits, and likes to be around Ivypool, she obviously doesn't mind if she's going hunting with him, they sound like they're getting along fine so far. And I'm interested to see how a stay at home dad, and part-time working mom works out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 15:41:10 GMT -5
I can understand not liking it for wanting Ivypool to remain single, but why do you say Fernsong deserve better? What has Ivypool done that made her not worthy of a good mate? exist. Shes a badly written character forced into a gender role switch cliche that she doesn't deserve. Fernsong only exists to be the cliche. Ivypool can hardly support herself as a character in a literary sense. How can she make Fernsong stand on his own. It wouldn't be so bad if Ivypool was like Sandstorm or Squirrelflight because they are well written. Ivypool is a pandering mess. I was wondering when someone was gonna say this...I forgot that Fernsong only exists to please people who care about the gender roles in warriors. i would be fine with it if ivypool and dovewing stay single and fernsong be with someone else (*cough* ambermooon) |
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Post by moonmasksunfrost on Aug 22, 2016 20:33:34 GMT -5
If the Erins handle it well, I'll be okay with it. Single Ivypool still takes the cake for me, but I think it could shape up to be cute. I like the sort of role-reversal we've seen, personality-wise. Plus, Fernsong seems like a total sweetheart. I don't really want them to have kits though. : >
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 22, 2016 22:22:50 GMT -5
I honestly fail to see how gender role switching is cliche', it's like you can't please anyone lol. People complain about queens only having kits and sitting in the camp, now people are complaining about the one couple that could possible have an interesting and new type of concept in their relationship. I welcome the idea of stay at home toms, while mamas are able to go out, still hunt, and stretch their legs. Also I doubt Fernsong was only created for this since I remember it was either Kate or Vicky that wanted to see if the others would run with the idea of this pairing in the first place, and that was after BrS.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Aug 23, 2016 0:05:02 GMT -5
I honestly fail to see how gender role switching is cliche', it's like you can't please anyone lol. People complain about queens only having kits and sitting in the camp, now people are complaining about the one couple that could possible have an interesting and new type of concept in their relationship. I welcome the idea of stay at home toms, while mamas are able to go out, still hunt, and stretch their legs. Also I doubt Fernsong was only created for this since I remember it was either Kate or Vicky that wanted to see if the others would run with the idea of this pairing in the first place, and that was after BrS. There is many problems I have. Ivypool is an awful character who barely has enough personality to be a character rather than just a reader insert. She barely stands on her own. Fernsong only exists to be a girly man and Ivypool's love interest. Ivypool barely supports herself as a character so it makes the introduction of Fernsong even more sour. Then there is logistics. What is a stay at home dad supposed to do in warriors? Clan life isn't like real life. Its already egalitarian. Everyone in the clans is watching the kits so if the parents aren't there, it really doesn't matter. Someone will take care of the kits. Thus Fernsong has no reason to stay in the camp much less the nursery to watch the kits. The only reason mothers get maternity leave is because they had to feed their kits when they are young and they are recovering from labor. Fernsong is not doing either of these. The stay at home dad cliche doesn't really work with warriors because realistically, Fernsong isn't going to be doing anything that different from the other fathers in the series. Ivypool doesn't break new ground. Squirrelflight already did this and nobody cared. It's like the erins want to break gender roles that aren't there which is mind numbing. |
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