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Post by Cheetahstar on Apr 4, 2019 23:53:48 GMT -5
Au where brambleclaw did infact kill firestar at the fox trap
would Ashfur have spilled the beans with a lie saying he saw what happened while hunting?
A possible spin on the 'evil brambleclaw' au thing
how would hawkfrost react? Didn't he want Brambleclaw to become leader? Finding out at a gathering or something
that being said once more how did hawkfrost go fd and ashfur didnt because THEY BOTH PLOTTED
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 4, 2019 23:55:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's what he was hoping for, even if it was never directly stated. In a way, he would've been killing two birds with one stone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 7:35:43 GMT -5
In a way, Ashfur already attempted to get Brambleclaw exposed in the canon. As he was the one to “warn” Leafpool and Squirrelflight about the foxtrap scheme:
Why would Ashfur go to Squirrelflight and Leafpool first of all cats? It's too convenient. Afterall, what can an inexperienced rash warrior and Medicine cat do against two deputies while defending their dying leader?
Some Ashfur fans may argue that he gained a guilty-conscious and was genuinely attempting to prevent his own crime. However this is disproven by the fire scene in Long Shadows:
Here, he states very clearly, even to that day, it was his intention for Firestar to die. No hint of regretting it later. If Ashfur truly felt guilty, he wouldn’t do his later murder attempt of the three either. So the only other logical explanation for Ashfur getting “help” is to backstab his crime-panter.
Thinking about it, Ashfur has little motive to wanting Hawkfrost to achieve his full goal: As there would major advantages and disadvantages for Ashfur. Sure, Firestar would be dead, however he’d also be helping his Rival become Leader. Even worse, when this is Tigerstar’s kin, who Ashfur holds an obvious grudge against:
It doesn’t match up to the scale of his second murder either. Apparently: Ashfur will only kill 1 cat at the expense of making his rival leader - Yet years later, he has to kill 3 cats to satisfy his bloodlust. Ashfur probably desired a larger scale of suffering from the Foxtrap scheme then Hawkfrost first promised. Which exactly why Ashfur got “help” - He’d have everything to gain.
If all went his way, this what would've likely happened: Squirrelflight, along with her sister, would of personally witnessed her mate killing her father. Tigerstar’s kits, Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost would of been exposed and punished, even banished. That’s much more up to scale with Ashfur’s future crime of: Holding an injured Squirrelflight prisoner and forcing her to watch all three of her kits burn alive.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 5, 2019 8:52:15 GMT -5
In a way, Ashfur already attempted to get Brambleclaw exposed in the canon. As he was the one to “warn” Leafpool and Squirrelflight about the foxtrap scheme: Why would Ashfur go to Squirrelflight and Leafpool first of all cats? It's too convenient. Afterall, what can an inexperienced rash warrior and Medicine cat do against two deputies while defending their dying leader? Some Ashfur fans may argue that he gained a guilty-conscious and was genuinely attempting to prevent his own crime. However this is disproven by the fire scene in Long Shadows: Here, he states very clearly, even to that day, it was his intention for Firestar to die. No hint of regretting it later. If Ashfur truly felt guilty, he wouldn’t do his later murder attempt of the three either. So the only other logical explanation for Ashfur getting “help” is to backstab his crime-panter. Thinking about it, Ashfur has little motive to wanting Hawkfrost to achieve his full goal: As there would major advantages and disadvantages for Ashfur. Sure, Firestar would be dead, however he’d also be helping his Rival become Leader. Even worse, when this is Tigerstar’s kin, who Ashfur holds an obvious grudge against: It doesn’t match up to the scale of his second murder either. Apparently: Ashfur will only kill 1 cat at the expense of making his rival leader - Yet years later, he has to kill 3 cats to satisfy his bloodlust. Ashfur probably desired a larger scale of suffering from the Foxtrap scheme then Hawkfrost first promised. Which exactly why Ashfur got “help” - He’d have everything to gain. If all went his way, this what would've likely happened: Squirrelflight, along with her sister, would of personally witnessed her mate killing her father. Tigerstar’s kits, Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost would of been exposed and punished, even banished. That’s much more up to scale with Ashfur’s future crime of: Holding an injured Squirrelflight prisoner and forcing her to watch all three of her kits burn alive. It'd be an interesting alternate universe where Ashfur's backstab actually works, if only to see the look on Hawkfrost's face when he realizes that Ashfur betrayed him. That all being said, I think that another valid interpretation is that Ashfur's apparent self sabotage was not due to a backstab but rather due to sheer incompetence. Ashfur does not strike me as a particularly intelligent cat, and the idea that he would get caught up in the moment with emotion and want to make Squirrelflight see it isn't surprising to me. Ashfur being just THAT malicious is possible, but it's also possible it could be attributed to stupidity on his part.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 10:09:54 GMT -5
In a way, Ashfur already attempted to get Brambleclaw exposed in the canon. As he was the one to “warn” Leafpool and Squirrelflight about the foxtrap scheme: Why would Ashfur go to Squirrelflight and Leafpool first of all cats? It's too convenient. Afterall, what can an inexperienced rash warrior and Medicine cat do against two deputies while defending their dying leader? Some Ashfur fans may argue that he gained a guilty-conscious and was genuinely attempting to prevent his own crime. However this is disproven by the fire scene in Long Shadows: Here, he states very clearly, even to that day, it was his intention for Firestar to die. No hint of regretting it later. If Ashfur truly felt guilty, he wouldn’t do his later murder attempt of the three either. So the only other logical explanation for Ashfur getting “help” is to backstab his crime-panter. Thinking about it, Ashfur has little motive to wanting Hawkfrost to achieve his full goal: As there would major advantages and disadvantages for Ashfur. Sure, Firestar would be dead, however he’d also be helping his Rival become Leader. Even worse, when this is Tigerstar’s kin, who Ashfur holds an obvious grudge against: It doesn’t match up to the scale of his second murder either. Apparently: Ashfur will only kill 1 cat at the expense of making his rival leader - Yet years later, he has to kill 3 cats to satisfy his bloodlust. Ashfur probably desired a larger scale of suffering from the Foxtrap scheme then Hawkfrost first promised. Which exactly why Ashfur got “help” - He’d have everything to gain. If all went his way, this what would've likely happened: Squirrelflight, along with her sister, would of personally witnessed her mate killing her father. Tigerstar’s kits, Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost would of been exposed and punished, even banished. That’s much more up to scale with Ashfur’s future crime of: Holding an injured Squirrelflight prisoner and forcing her to watch all three of her kits burn alive. It'd be an interesting alternate universe where Ashfur's backstab actually works, if only to see the look on Hawkfrost's face when he realizes that Ashfur betrayed him. That all being said, I think that another valid interpretation is that Ashfur's apparent self sabotage was not due to a backstab but rather due to sheer incompetence. Ashfur does not strike me as a particularly intelligent cat, and the idea that he would get caught up in the moment with emotion and want to make Squirrelflight see it isn't surprising to me. Ashfur being just THAT malicious is possible, but it's also possible it could be attributed to stupidity on his part. Though I wouldn't call Ashfur the smartest of villains, by no means is he the dumbest either. Afterall, Ashfur does have some valid acting skills. No one suspected him after his first crime with the foxtrap. They carried on thinking he was a loyal warrior, still remaining popular. Even Firestar and Brambleclaw were fooled despite directly being warned of a traitor and Ashfur having the clearest motive. Even after his 1 slip up with the brutal 'training' with Lionpaw, he's instantly up to put up his calm persona again:
Ashfur also has to be somewhat clever to: take advantage of the Fire and know the Gathering would get the maximum effect. Finally when he was being warned about telling the secret, Ashfur managed to remain eerily calm:
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 5, 2019 10:32:50 GMT -5
It'd be an interesting alternate universe where Ashfur's backstab actually works, if only to see the look on Hawkfrost's face when he realizes that Ashfur betrayed him. That all being said, I think that another valid interpretation is that Ashfur's apparent self sabotage was not due to a backstab but rather due to sheer incompetence. Ashfur does not strike me as a particularly intelligent cat, and the idea that he would get caught up in the moment with emotion and want to make Squirrelflight see it isn't surprising to me. Ashfur being just THAT malicious is possible, but it's also possible it could be attributed to stupidity on his part. Though I wouldn't call Ashfur the smartest of villains by any means, by no means though is he the dumbest. Afterall, Ashfur does have some valid acting skills. No one expected him after his first crime with the foxtrap. They carried on thinking he was a loyal warrior, still remaining popular. Even Firestar and Brambleclaw were fooled despite directly being warned of a traitor and Ashfur having the clearest motive. Even after his 1 slip up with the brutal 'training' with Lionpaw, he's instantly up to put up his calm persona again:
Ashfur also has to be somewhat clever to: take advantage of the Fire and know the Gathering would get the maximum effect. Finally when he was being warned about telling the secret, Ashfur managed to remain eerily calm:
Maybe intelligence was the wrong word. Maybe reckless is better. He strikes me as the sort to be impulsive and rash even if he's amoral to the core and can manipulate others. He seems vaguely psychopathic in a sense.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Apr 5, 2019 14:17:45 GMT -5
In a way, Ashfur already attempted to get Brambleclaw exposed in the canon. As he was the one to “warn” Leafpool and Squirrelflight about the foxtrap scheme: Why would Ashfur go to Squirrelflight and Leafpool first of all cats? It's too convenient. Afterall, what can an inexperienced rash warrior and Medicine cat do against two deputies while defending their dying leader? Some Ashfur fans may argue that he gained a guilty-conscious and was genuinely attempting to prevent his own crime. However this is disproven by the fire scene in Long Shadows: Here, he states very clearly, even to that day, it was his intention for Firestar to die. No hint of regretting it later. If Ashfur truly felt guilty, he wouldn’t do his later murder attempt of the three either. So the only other logical explanation for Ashfur getting “help” is to backstab his crime-panter. Thinking about it, Ashfur has little motive to wanting Hawkfrost to achieve his full goal: As there would major advantages and disadvantages for Ashfur. Sure, Firestar would be dead, however he’d also be helping his Rival become Leader. Even worse, when this is Tigerstar’s kin, who Ashfur holds an obvious grudge against: It doesn’t match up to the scale of his second murder either. Apparently: Ashfur will only kill 1 cat at the expense of making his rival leader - Yet years later, he has to kill 3 cats to satisfy his bloodlust. Ashfur probably desired a larger scale of suffering from the Foxtrap scheme then Hawkfrost first promised. Which exactly why Ashfur got “help” - He’d have everything to gain. If all went his way, this what would've likely happened: Squirrelflight, along with her sister, would of personally witnessed her mate killing her father. Tigerstar’s kits, Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost would of been exposed and punished, even banished. That’s much more up to scale with Ashfur’s future crime of: Holding an injured Squirrelflight prisoner and forcing her to watch all three of her kits burn alive. It'd be an interesting alternate universe where Ashfur's backstab actually works, if only to see the look on Hawkfrost's face when he realizes that Ashfur betrayed him. That all being said, I think that another valid interpretation is that Ashfur's apparent self sabotage was not due to a backstab but rather due to sheer incompetence. Ashfur does not strike me as a particularly intelligent cat, and the idea that he would get caught up in the moment with emotion and want to make Squirrelflight see it isn't surprising to me. Ashfur being just THAT malicious is possible, but it's also possible it could be attributed to stupidity on his part. that would be very interesting Hawkfrost congratulates his brother when leafpool, squirrelflight and ashfur show up Would he try to lie about what happened? I imagine Brambleclaw would be in too much shock to say anything worth while Or would he tell Brambleclaw to help him in killing the three?
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Post by Cheetahstar on Apr 5, 2019 14:18:30 GMT -5
In a way, Ashfur already attempted to get Brambleclaw exposed in the canon. As he was the one to “warn” Leafpool and Squirrelflight about the foxtrap scheme: Why would Ashfur go to Squirrelflight and Leafpool first of all cats? It's too convenient. Afterall, what can an inexperienced rash warrior and Medicine cat do against two deputies while defending their dying leader? Some Ashfur fans may argue that he gained a guilty-conscious and was genuinely attempting to prevent his own crime. However this is disproven by the fire scene in Long Shadows: Here, he states very clearly, even to that day, it was his intention for Firestar to die. No hint of regretting it later. If Ashfur truly felt guilty, he wouldn’t do his later murder attempt of the three either. So the only other logical explanation for Ashfur getting “help” is to backstab his crime-panter. Thinking about it, Ashfur has little motive to wanting Hawkfrost to achieve his full goal: As there would major advantages and disadvantages for Ashfur. Sure, Firestar would be dead, however he’d also be helping his Rival become Leader. Even worse, when this is Tigerstar’s kin, who Ashfur holds an obvious grudge against: It doesn’t match up to the scale of his second murder either. Apparently: Ashfur will only kill 1 cat at the expense of making his rival leader - Yet years later, he has to kill 3 cats to satisfy his bloodlust. Ashfur probably desired a larger scale of suffering from the Foxtrap scheme then Hawkfrost first promised. Which exactly why Ashfur got “help” - He’d have everything to gain. If all went his way, this what would've likely happened: Squirrelflight, along with her sister, would of personally witnessed her mate killing her father. Tigerstar’s kits, Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost would of been exposed and punished, even banished. That’s much more up to scale with Ashfur’s future crime of: Holding an injured Squirrelflight prisoner and forcing her to watch all three of her kits burn alive. I completely forgot about this! thanks!
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