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Post by Viperstrike on Mar 29, 2019 15:57:26 GMT -5
I just watched a youtube video complaining about how pregnancy is handled in the series, and I'm curious to know what people here think because this is something I never really thought about. By the way, this isn't to bash the creator or anyone. I just thought it would be an interesting topic idea.
Basically the creator of the video explains he has a problem with how pregnancy is handled in this series, because he feels like it is too graphic and mature for children. He explains that many of the characters feel too young to take on the responsibility of pregnancy, and that the birth scenes are too graphic to read about. He'd also rather new characters suddenly appear than have characters suddenly end up pregnant and give birth.
While I agree with some of the points that were made in the video, over all I disagree. Pregnancy is a part of life, and when you have a huge cast with hundreds of characters some of them are bound to get pregnant. I never had a problem with the birth scenes, although I can see why someone would be. I've watched cats give birth in real life, so I'm pretty desensitized. I also don't think it's too much for kids. There are so many grusome scenes in the books like the dog pack, or Tigerstar getting ripped open that I think if kids can stomach that they can handle pregnancy but that's just me. I would say the biggest problem with pregnancy is characters that shouldn't be together having kids, or characters who would clearly make horrible parents having kids.
What do you guys think?
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Post by kinkajou on Mar 29, 2019 16:06:00 GMT -5
I think it's fine. I've never been one to sugarcoat for kids. People really underestimate them
New characters should just appear rather than older ones getting pregnant and giving birth? That....is the stupidest thing I've ever heard
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Post by Haze on Mar 29, 2019 16:16:45 GMT -5
In a series that are about cats fighting against each other and some of these fights ends in a really bloody manner (like Hawkfrost being impaled by the stick of the fox trap in the neck) pregnancy is not really a problem. And the scenes are not even that graphic.
And I do admit that I find funny some scenes like when Dovewing was using her powers and Brackenfur and Sorreltail was having some alone time and her embarrassed looks elsewhere. Its a type of scene that for children will pass right above their heads but for older people will give it a little laugh.
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Lesbian
Owl
always writing, never finishing
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Post by Owl on Mar 29, 2019 16:21:25 GMT -5
speaking as someone who cringes away from any sort of birth scene/video, i've never thought that the birth scenes in warriors were graphic at all, and most of them are pretty much described in the same exact way. technically, considering the countless gorey scenes scattered across the entire series, the erins could probably get away with making the births even more graphic than they already are. i don't think it's a problem
younger cats have been having kits since the first arc. graystripe had just been made a warrior when he fell in love with silverstream, and she became pregnant not long after. this doesn't bother me, but i do wish that we got to see the characters actually weighing the responsibility and maturity it takes to successfully raise children. the characters are anthropomorphized to the point where you can't just say "they're animals, it's what they do!"
at least we got to see this with twigbranch. she had just been made a warrior, and the clans were just barely beginning to recover from the disaster brought by darktail. it makes sense that she wasn't ready for kits. now i wish we'd get to see an established relationship, preferably from the protagonist's point of view, where both cats happily decide not to have children. i'd just like to see some relationships that don't follow the same beats as every other pair in the series
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 18:37:55 GMT -5
I don't really got a problem with it.
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Post by sylveon on Mar 29, 2019 19:07:00 GMT -5
Like my boyfriend has pointed out to me before, there's a difference between imagination and actually seeing these things. Imagining things is limited to the knowledge of the person, and usually not as graphic. That being said, I've never had a problem with birth scenes. Giving birth is one of the most natural things in the world, and one of the most touching scenes that have stuck with me was when Jaypaw delivered his first kits and marveled at what a miracle bringing new life into the world was. It's not like they're throwing sex scenes at children, and many kids have experienced pregnant mothers / aunts / sisters. there's no reason for it to be taboo.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 29, 2019 19:57:47 GMT -5
It probably goes over the heads of anyone young enough for it to be inappropriate for.
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Post by Tas on Mar 29, 2019 20:05:36 GMT -5
It's important not to overthink things.
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Post by Smokyyy on Mar 29, 2019 23:36:34 GMT -5
In a series that are about cats fighting against each other and some of these fights ends in a really bloody manner (like Hawkfrost being impaled by the stick of the fox trap in the neck) pregnancy is not really a problem. And the scenes are not even that graphic. And I do admit that I find funny some scenes like when Dovewing was using her powers and Brackenfur and Sorreltail was having some alone time and her embarrassed looks elsewhere. Its a type of scene that for children will pass right above their heads but for older people will give it a little laugh. That's suprising I didn't even realize that was in there. Lol |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 23:54:49 GMT -5
honestly the birth scenes sometimes make me laugh with how inaccurate/watered down they are. The kitten slides out in a sac and its suddenly free to roam (not tethered to the mom by the cord), then a couple seconds later another kitten slides out. I'd love to see a mother cat actually eat the placentas/cut the cord in warrior cats. until that day happens there's no way I'd describe to birth scenes anywhere near "too graphic"
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 30, 2019 0:18:09 GMT -5
I've seen cats give birth in livestreams and I can assure ya Warriors REALLY waters the experience down by a long shot.
Even in normal birthing there's blood, but not a lot to where it's fatal and alarming, and then there's the whole placenta having to come out before the other kits if there are any and eating it and the whole cord thing, there's also a LOT of cleaning happening, which would only be easier with a co-parent to do it for the molly giving birth (I've seen two that cooperated really well when one was giving birth, the other would clean her and the kits and let the birthing molly do what she's supposed to). Plus giving birth is draining and exhausting as we know, and it helps a lot for cats to have a food source right nearby to keep their energy up for the duration of it. You never see that last detail in the books because it's usually so easy in there compared to IRL.
Not only that, but mollies that do give birth to kits don't just shat them out one after another that fast, there's a LOT of pushing and it can even take a while for the rest to come out during the time they are in labor. I'd say depending on the cat, they can start birthing again at different intervals. It's not at that one moment like the books do them, cat pregnancy drags ON lemme tell ya!
The guy who says the birthing scenes in Warriors are "too graphic" REALLY does not know how graphic cats giving birth as is, and even if it is, it's nothing compared to the fact that there's Tigerstar getting his guts hanging out and dying nine times. Compared to that, the pregnancy scenes are nothing in terms of what's appropriate for kids. And even so, what's the problem? Birthing is natural and I don't see why it should be left out in the cats lives/PoVs in the books at all, it's not the worst these books can have.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 0:36:15 GMT -5
which would only be easier with a co-parent to do it for the molly giving birth (I've seen two that cooperated really well when one was giving birth, the other would clean her and the kits and let the birthing molly do what she's supposed to). omg are you talking about chloe and ramona? I've seen them and I loved them so much. i totally recommend ppl search youtube 'chloe giving birth with ramona's help' if you wanna see that, its graphic and real but super adorable and interesting at the same time |
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 30, 2019 0:40:28 GMT -5
which would only be easier with a co-parent to do it for the molly giving birth (I've seen two that cooperated really well when one was giving birth, the other would clean her and the kits and let the birthing molly do what she's supposed to). omg are you talking about chloe and ramona? I've seen them and I loved them so much. i totally recommend ppl search youtube 'chloe giving birth with ramona's help' if you wanna see that, its graphic and real but super adorable and interesting at the same time YES! I think I watched Chloe's birthing videos more times that I needed to because I was so fascinated that Queens worked so well together parenting and co-parenting. I think it was my first time seeing it happen too, and it was really great in letting me see how Mollies were like when it came to pregnancy, so it made great research too, and it is indeed adorable, with Ramona being such a great second mama figure and helper there. It's a sorta long-haul video for anyone that does wanna check it out, as I think it has two parts but it's a great watch either way. |
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Post by Pyropelt on Mar 30, 2019 1:05:30 GMT -5
The only part to me that is gross to me is the whole licking the fluid and cleaning the kit after they are birthed. I mean I get why it happens though. Once when I was little I imagined what it would taste like and ever since it's always made me a little squeamish. I try not to think about it now.
But other than that, I'm ok with the births in the series. I don't think the pregnancies are too graphic.
I do like when basically the whole Clan sometimes waits for news though, especially the immediate family. That shows how close they are I think, and a lot of care.
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Post by Viperstrike on Mar 30, 2019 2:16:26 GMT -5
I've seen cats give birth in livestreams and I can assure ya Warriors REALLY waters the experience down by a long shot. Even in normal birthing there's blood, but not a lot to where it's fatal and alarming, and then there's the whole placenta having to come out before the other kits if there are any and eating it and the whole cord thing, there's also a LOT of cleaning happening, which would only be easier with a co-parent to do it for the molly giving birth (I've seen two that cooperated really well when one was giving birth, the other would clean her and the kits and let the birthing molly do what she's supposed to). Plus giving birth is draining and exhausting as we know, and it helps a lot for cats to have a food source right nearby to keep their energy up for the duration of it. You never see that last detail in the books because it's usually so easy in there compared to IRL. Not only that, but mollies that do give birth to kits don't just shat them out one after another that fast, there's a LOT of pushing and it can even take a while for the rest to come out during the time they are in labor. I'd say depending on the cat, they can start birthing again at different intervals. It's not at that one moment like the books do them, cat pregnancy drags ON lemme tell ya! The guy who says the birthing scenes in Warriors are "too graphic" REALLY does not know how graphic cats giving birth as is, and even if it is, it's nothing compared to the fact that there's Tigerstar getting his guts hanging out and dying nine times. Compared to that, the pregnancy scenes are nothing in terms of what's appropriate for kids. And even so, what's the problem? Birthing is natural and I don't see why it should be left out in the cats lives/PoVs in the books at all. Yeah, in real life it's way more graphic than the books describe. This is an odd nit pick, but the biggest thing that annoys me about birthing scenes is that they all depict the queens laying on their side with a stick in their mouths. Cats don't do this, at least none of them that I've seen and that's quite a few. They might labor on their side, but as soon as it's time to push they sit up or squat, then the kitten slowly makes it way out and the mother sits down to clean it up. And once they're cleaned up they feel slick and slimy little mice with their fur all spiked up. They're not little fluffballs fresh out of the oven. |
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Post by Sea Drops by a Bird on Mar 30, 2019 12:36:36 GMT -5
Honestly the birthing scenes in warriors are pretty rushed through and simplified because unless its for a plot point they're usually not a focal point. Most cats we don't see give birth, and when they do we get a few snippets at most. As far as them biting down on a stick- I guess the erin's thought it might be an idea cats would have to cope with pain but otherwise birthing scenes in warriors are pretty PG.
As far as cats being too young- I think by human standards, yes. To us they might be. But cats reach maturity a lot faster than we do so for them they aren't too young to give birth, nor is the process of raising a litter of kits as involved as raising a human (6 months vs. 18 years) so really the whole process is roughly 8 months- less time than it takes for a human to have a baby. Not to say that they should dive deeper into what it's really like though I don't see how it would hurt the readers, most of which have a fondness for or own a cat and would probably benefit from the knowledge.
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Post by dashingshadows on Mar 30, 2019 12:37:29 GMT -5
It seems fine to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2019 14:48:07 GMT -5
Just saying for those who argue 'birthing is a natural process' - So is technically sex and going to the toilet - And I doubt any of us want to see that.  |
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 30, 2019 15:56:08 GMT -5
Just saying for those who argue 'birthing is a natural process' - So is technically sex and going to the toilet - And I doubt any of us want to see that. :shifty: None of us are implying that pregnancy scenes for cats in these books are the same level as sex scenes in terms of what's "natural". We're saying that in comparison to the graphic deaths we've had in these books, the cats giving birth in the scenes where it's actually "detailed" are very muddied down. It's not like we're not asking for the latter two to be more explicit in these books. Don't get shifty. :/// And we've already had multiple cats go to the bathroom in the books... just not explicitly stated, so yeah.. |
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Bisexual
신성하지 않은 모든 것의 어머니
なんで私
Kpop isn't a choice, it's a lifestyle
Pronouns: She/Her/Demon Mom
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Post by なんで私 on Mar 30, 2019 16:53:02 GMT -5
I agree with the being too young thing. We got cats like Ferncloud and Violetshine getting pregnant like right after becoming warriors! But the birthing scenes being too graphic thing... have any of you not read Tigerstar's death or Brightheart speaks?!
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Post by ~Duskheart~ on Mar 31, 2019 0:14:44 GMT -5
Intense gore is okay but not (very lightly described) miracle of birth?
If that youtuber isn't American I'd eat my hat.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 31, 2019 1:59:31 GMT -5
Just saying for those who argue 'birthing is a natural process' - So is technically sex and going to the toilet - And I doubt any of us want to see that. I wouldn't call birthing similar to either of those things. Birthing is gross, but it's also really beautiful since new life is brought into the world. Either way, the scenes aren't graphic. |
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