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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 23:58:06 GMT -5
While I know that Crowfeather was a major negative influence on the family, others were still just as much fault as he was. The reason why I didn't like the book, is because it felt like it blamed Crowfeather and that everything was his fault.
* Crow taking Night as his mate: I am sure they both agreed to this. You can't force someone to be with you. And Night wanted kits, so she was just as much as a victim to use him as well, and wanted to make him love her.
* The book said Crow needs to be a forgiving example so others can forgive him, too. Excuse me? You expect Crowfeather, to forgive Breezepelt, someone who tried to murder cats, and betrayed his Clan? The book literally tried to force Crow to forgive a murderer and that just... feels wrong to me to blame him for Breezepelt's actions.
* Crow was exiled, yet Breeze wasn't.
Then there's also Breezepelt's crappy "redemption", but you get my point. I didn't like the book because of how it blamed Crowfeather like it was his fault. You have to look at all sides. Everyone played a part in Breezepelt's behavior, and in the end he chose his own decisions. It pisses me off that this cat got off scott-free and literally did nothing while Hollyleaf and many other characters had to work their asses off.
The book would have been good if it wasn't so biased. And that's my problem with it. It feels like it only exists to please the fans, and while it did show a mature topic and made the characters likable, it was unfair to blame everything on Crowfeather.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 27, 2019 23:59:28 GMT -5
It's a book that I really wish wasn't canon.
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Scotus
Pronouns: distinctio realis
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Post by Scotus on Mar 28, 2019 0:47:51 GMT -5
My first thoughts while reading it were "This book is a fan service book."
At the beginning I wanted to slap Crowfeather for thinking dumb things about his son. For the rest of the book I still wanted to slap him or just roll my eyes into my brain for a lot of different reasons that ranged from being cheesy, to being slathered in sympathy juice for the readers to notice, to just being... weird. For the whole book I was wondering 'wow, he's realizing this now?' (you'd wonder where he's been in the last two series) And I get that he started thinking about things once Breezepelt betrayed the clan/Nightcloud 'died' and all, but it still makes no sense giving the intro. It's true that he's too hard on himself to a fault. I guess it could be pointed out that this might just be a bit of his paranoia although its not too off. Father's usually shape their children's confidence in things so if we are going to say 'breeze pelt only went to the dark forest because he was insecure and desperate' then yeah it was his fault. I do remember in The Sight, apparently Crowfeather was pretty bad towards his son though. I at least remember Lionblaze thinking (ironically) that he was glad that Brambleclaw was his dad and not Crowfeather. But I do agree it would take a lot more than insecurity to make someone support a mass murderer to the end. Has Breezepelt himself actually killed anyone though?
This is also another reason why Crookedstar is the best character with regards to personal virtue and fortitude. His mother treated him like dirt but he still was raised a decent and lovable cat.
I would like to know how Crowfeather and Nightcloud decided to have kits, they both agreed to it obviously, and Crowfeather had his pragmatic reasons, but what pragmatic reasons did Nightcloud have? It's obvious she 'didn't truly love him' either. (and I really hate that phrase, for multiple reasons)
Plus, Onestar is a prime hypocrite. He says he didn't appoint Crowfeather as a leader because of his anger. And yet, he's the one who most acts like a terrible angry bleh during the book. Why exactly did he want to send the soats into thunderclan again? What did they ever do to deserve that? The exile was stupid although kinda interesting, because he was repeating what Breezepelt said in the past: 'I don't need anyone.' Have cats been exiled in the past besides Mapleshade and Tigerclaw? I wouldn't think after letting him in with a cuff on the ear for leaving with Leafpool that exile would have even been on the table.
Breezepelt forgave Crowfeather way too easily in the book too. Maybe it's because he's a guy (?) but daddy problems don't go away that easily in my experience. It takes literal years for things to stop being awkward, even after dad starts trying to act all nice. I expected him to be more suspicious and wary.
Plus, it's not like he just fought with the Darkforest. According to Ivypool he accepted their philosophy as well. Something like that might have started as an insecurity, but it just doesn't vanish overnight. It's more of a brain virus, and therefore much harder to get rid of. Even when they lost, why would Breezepelt stop thinking that the clans were intrinsically weak?
Jayfeather and Lionblaze were the only ones that acted kinda normal. I only bought the book because I heard Jayfeather said the equivalent to 'no, die.' Although I was supportive of him finally giving Crowfeather the herbs.
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Post by kinkajou on Mar 28, 2019 14:51:56 GMT -5
Yeah they acted like Breeze wasn't in control of his own actions :/ Unrelated to Breezepelt/Nightcloud but it also really annoyed me when they blamed him for Featherpaw's injury
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Post by gonxkillua on Mar 28, 2019 15:11:26 GMT -5
My first thoughts while reading it were "This book is a fan service book." At the beginning I wanted to slap Crowfeather for thinking dumb things about his son. For the rest of the book I still wanted to slap him or just roll my eyes into my brain for a lot of different reasons that ranged from being cheesy, to being slathered in sympathy juice for the readers to notice, to just being... weird. For the whole book I was wondering 'wow, he's realizing this now?' (you'd wonder where he's been in the last two series) And I get that he started thinking about things once Breezepelt betrayed the clan/Nightcloud 'died' and all, but it still makes no sense giving the intro. It's true that he's too hard on himself to a fault. I guess it could be pointed out that this might just be a bit of his paranoia although its not too off. Father's usually shape their children's confidence in things so if we are going to say 'breeze pelt only went to the dark forest because he was insecure and desperate' then yeah it was his fault. I do remember in The Sight, apparently Crowfeather was pretty bad towards his son though. I at least remember Lionblaze thinking (ironically) that he was glad that Brambleclaw was his dad and not Crowfeather. But I do agree it would take a lot more than insecurity to make someone support a mass murderer to the end. Has Breezepelt himself actually killed anyone though? This is also another reason why Crookedstar is the best character with regards to personal virtue and fortitude. His mother treated him like dirt but he still was raised a decent and lovable cat. I would like to know how Crowfeather and Nightcloud decided to have kits, they both agreed to it obviously, and Crowfeather had his pragmatic reasons, but what pragmatic reasons did Nightcloud have? It's obvious she 'didn't truly love him' either. (and I really hate that phrase, for multiple reasons) Plus, Onestar is a prime hypocrite. He says he didn't appoint Crowfeather as a leader because of his anger. And yet, he's the one who most acts like a terrible angry bleh during the book. Why exactly did he want to send the soats into thunderclan again? What did they ever do to deserve that? The exile was stupid although kinda interesting, because he was repeating what Breezepelt said in the past: 'I don't need anyone.' Have cats been exiled in the past besides Mapleshade and Tigerclaw? I wouldn't think after letting him in with a cuff on the ear for leaving with Leafpool that exile would have even been on the table. Breezepelt forgave Crowfeather way too easily in the book too. Maybe it's because he's a guy (?) but daddy problems don't go away that easily in my experience. It takes literal years for things to stop being awkward, even after dad starts trying to act all nice. I expected him to be more suspicious and wary. Plus, it's not like he just fought with the Darkforest. According to Ivypool he accepted their philosophy as well. Something like that might have started as an insecurity, but it just doesn't vanish overnight. It's more of a brain virus, and therefore much harder to get rid of. Even when they lost, why would Breezepelt stop thinking that the clans were intrinsically weak? Jayfeather and Lionblaze were the only ones that acted kinda normal. I only bought the book because I heard Jayfeather said the equivalent to 'no, die.' Although I was supportive of him finally giving Crowfeather the herbs. In regards to the has Breezepelt ever killed someone question,no he hasn't but the only reason he didn't is because he was incompetent not because he wasn't trying( he tried his best to kill Jayfeather,Poppyfrost,her unborn kits and Lionblaze). Thought Crowfeather is only aware of the Lionblaze one and the book treats that as the one he needed to be redeemed for.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 15:11:55 GMT -5
While Crowfeather's no saint, I believe he didn't deserve all the blame in his super edition.
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 28, 2019 16:05:02 GMT -5
I agree, Crowfeather got blamed for more than he needed to. As much as I dislike him and I am really glad he got called out for his god awful parenting, Featherpaw’s injuries were not his fault and he should not have gotten banished for sure. Onestar was his usual trash self, and as entertaining as I found it, I did get annoyed when Crowfeather got banished. He deserves some of the flack he got, but not that bad.
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Post by Haze on Mar 28, 2019 16:25:44 GMT -5
I agree, Crowfeather got blamed for more than he needed to. As much as I dislike him and I am really glad he got called out for his god awful parenting, Featherpaw’s injuries were not his fault and he should not have gotten banished for sure. Onestar was his usual trash self, and as entertaining as I found it, I did get annoyed when Crowfeather got banished. He deserves some of the flack he got, but not that bad. The banishment was basically preparing him to the deputy position later and being more tactful with the words, at the start of the book we can see Crowfeather undermining Harespring authority constantly, the difference was that Onestar that had a rough start in leadership would not accept that. We can see that he reflects this later thinking that he could had chosen better the words, and in his inner thoughts after this point most of the time he thinks about what he says or wonder if he was too harsh. He didnt deserved the banishment but that day away from windclan made wonders for his character development in the book.
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 28, 2019 17:32:26 GMT -5
I agree, Crowfeather got blamed for more than he needed to. As much as I dislike him and I am really glad he got called out for his god awful parenting, Featherpaw’s injuries were not his fault and he should not have gotten banished for sure. Onestar was his usual trash self, and as entertaining as I found it, I did get annoyed when Crowfeather got banished. He deserves some of the flack he got, but not that bad. The banishment was basically preparing him to the deputy position later and being more tactful with the words, at the start of the book we can see Crowfeather undermining Harespring authority constantly, the difference was that Onestar that had a rough start in leadership would not accept that. We can see that he reflects this later thinking that he could had chosen better the words, and in his inner thoughts after this point most of the time he thinks about what he says or wonder if he was too harsh. He didnt deserved the banishment but that day away from windclan made wonders for his character development in the book. That is incredibly true. I loved CT for this reason. It developed characters so nicely in my opinion, and I loved seeing Windclan’s dynamics.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Mar 28, 2019 18:11:13 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the book
Onestar banishing crowfeather didn't seem like the erins wanted you to think it just, more so to show how unrational onestar had become
breezepelt did deserve a bit more punishment though ngl
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 18:29:46 GMT -5
What people don't say is that, when the book did cast Breezepelt in a better light, it did the same with Nightcloud, as well.
Prior to CT and AVoS, Nightcloud wasn't the nicest cat, and only Breezepelt seemed to get along with her. But in CT, she's portrayed as this loyal WindClan warrior, as if every cat respects her, when that couldn't be farther from the truth.
As well as the fact that Crowfeather was punished for way too much when Breezepelt got off scott free. Onestar trusted Breezepelt more than Crowfeather. How do you justify punishing a warrior who led his Clan to their new home, and forgetting, even rewarding a warrior who betrayed their Clan for a bunch of dead murderers?
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Post by Haze on Mar 28, 2019 18:46:36 GMT -5
What people don't say is that, when the book did cast Breezepelt in a better light, it did the same with Nightcloud, as well. Prior to CT and AVoS, Nightcloud wasn't the nicest cat, and only Breezepelt seemed to get along with her. But in CT, she's portrayed as this loyal WindClan warrior, as if every cat respects her, when that couldn't be farther from the truth. As well as the fact that Crowfeather was punished for way too much when Breezepelt got off scott free. Onestar trusted Breezepelt more than Crowfeather. How do you justify punishing a warrior who led his Clan to their new home, and forgetting, even rewarding a warrior who betrayed their Clan for a bunch of dead murderers? Look this interesting quote of Crowfeather: Crowfeather choose Nightcloud a high respected warrior in windclan to have kits so nobody would doubt his loyalties after he ran away with a medicine cat of another clan. So yes N8ghtcloud was already a respected warrior.
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Post by dashingshadows on Mar 28, 2019 20:50:40 GMT -5
Yes And Onestar continues to be terrible at making choices as a leader
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