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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 0:09:46 GMT -5
What do you think (unbiasedly) the quality of Warriors is?
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Post by Thunderheart57 on Mar 4, 2019 0:40:23 GMT -5
In the later series, not very good. I had noticed a general decline after Shattered Sky, where the paragraph structure and punctuation felt off. In a few passages in River of Fire, there were eplises at the end of a paragraph, and suddenly going into the next one without neatly bridging the current one to the next. I had never seen an error like that in other books I read, even ones marketed towards the same age demographic as Warriors. It was like they couldn’t figure out how to make a proper sentence to finish off the previous paragraph while transitioning into the next one. Not to mention continuity errors, and world breaking rules that came out of nowhere. I will admit that the original series has its issues too, but they were not as prevalent unlike the newer installments. There is also an issue with character development as well. Poor Alderheart never had a chance to fully grow into a well rounded character in my opinion. Once Twigbranch and Violetshine came in, they got more attention than him.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 0:43:37 GMT -5
In the later series, not very good. I had noticed a general decline after Shattered Sky, where the paragraph structure and punctuation felt off. In a few passages in River of Fire, there were eplises at the end of a paragraph, and suddenly going into the next one without neatly bridging the current one to the next. I had never seen an error like that in other books I read, even ones marketed towards the same age demographic as Warriors. It was like they couldn’t figure out how to make a proper sentence to finish off the previous paragraph while transitioning into the next one. Not to mention continuity errors, and world breaking rules that came out of nowhere. I will admit that the original series has its issues too, but they were not as prevalent unlike the newer installments. There is also an issue with character development as well. Poor Alderheart never had a chance to fully grow into a well rounded character in my opinion. Once Twigbranch and Violetshine came in, they got more attention than him. True, the protagonists honestly need to be more well-rounded characters. But... they aren't. I feel like they KIND OF tried with Alderheart, but the gave up halfway through the arc?
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Post by Thunderheart57 on Mar 4, 2019 0:50:39 GMT -5
In the later series, not very good. I had noticed a general decline after Shattered Sky, where the paragraph structure and punctuation felt off. In a few passages in River of Fire, there were eplises at the end of a paragraph, and suddenly going into the next one without neatly bridging the current one to the next. I had never seen an error like that in other books I read, even ones marketed towards the same age demographic as Warriors. It was like they couldn’t figure out how to make a proper sentence to finish off the previous paragraph while transitioning into the next one. Not to mention continuity errors, and world breaking rules that came out of nowhere. I will admit that the original series has its issues too, but they were not as prevalent unlike the newer installments. There is also an issue with character development as well. Poor Alderheart never had a chance to fully grow into a well rounded character in my opinion. Once Twigbranch and Violetshine came in, they got more attention than him. True, the protagonists honestly need to be more well-rounded characters. But... they aren't. I feel like they KIND OF tried with Alderheart, but the gave up halfway through the arc? Exactly. I think something must have happened on the editor side of things that allowed Alderheart to fade out of the picture in order to bring out Violetshine and Twigbranch into the spotlight as the books went on. Which is a shame. Alderheart could have been a unique character. I would have him slowly overcome his anxiety and fear of bloodshed, while being a fatherly figure to Violetshine and Twigbranch. I would have him go to ShadowClan, while having Twigbranch take over for the ThunderClan POV, and Violetshine be the second ShadowClan POV, then transition over to SkyClan later down the road.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 0:53:49 GMT -5
True, the protagonists honestly need to be more well-rounded characters. But... they aren't. I feel like they KIND OF tried with Alderheart, but the gave up halfway through the arc? Exactly. I think something must have happened on the editor side of things that allowed Alderheart to fade out of the picture in order to bring out Violetshine and Twigbranch into the spotlight as the books went on. Which is a shame. Alderheart could have been a unique character. I would have him slowly overcome his anxiety and fear of bloodshed, while being a fatherly figure to Violetshine and Twigbranch. I would have him go to ShadowClan, while having Twigbranch take over for the ThunderClan POV, and Violetshine be the second ShadowClan POV, then transition over to SkyClan later down the road. The editor's are really to blame for a lot that happens in AVOS
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 0:54:11 GMT -5
True, the protagonists honestly need to be more well-rounded characters. But... they aren't. I feel like they KIND OF tried with Alderheart, but the gave up halfway through the arc? Exactly. I think something must have happened on the editor side of things that allowed Alderheart to fade out of the picture in order to bring out Violetshine and Twigbranch into the spotlight as the books went on. Which is a shame. Alderheart could have been a unique character. I would have him slowly overcome his anxiety and fear of bloodshed, while being a fatherly figure to Violetshine and Twigbranch. I would have him go to ShadowClan, while having Twigbranch take over for the ThunderClan POV, and Violetshine be the second ShadowClan POV, then transition over to SkyClan later down the road.
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Post by Thunderheart57 on Mar 4, 2019 0:56:05 GMT -5
Exactly. I think something must have happened on the editor side of things that allowed Alderheart to fade out of the picture in order to bring out Violetshine and Twigbranch into the spotlight as the books went on. Which is a shame. Alderheart could have been a unique character. I would have him slowly overcome his anxiety and fear of bloodshed, while being a fatherly figure to Violetshine and Twigbranch. I would have him go to ShadowClan, while having Twigbranch take over for the ThunderClan POV, and Violetshine be the second ShadowClan POV, then transition over to SkyClan later down the road. The editor's are really to blame for a lot that happens in AVOS They shouldn’t have that much control over the character and plot development in the series since it started. I think it is the responsibility of the author to make that happen.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 1:00:24 GMT -5
The editor's are really to blame for a lot that happens in AVOS They shouldn’t have that much control over the character and plot development in the series since it started. I think it is the responsibility of the author to make that happen. I definitely agree. Granted, the first half of AVOS was great, but the last half completely fell apart. I really want the authors to go to new editors. The editors are NOT the ones that should be making plot decisions.
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Post by Thunderheart57 on Mar 4, 2019 1:07:25 GMT -5
They shouldn’t have that much control over the character and plot development in the series since it started. I think it is the responsibility of the author to make that happen. I definitely agree. Granted, the first half of AVOS was great, but the last half completely fell apart. I really want the authors to go to new editors. The editors are NOT the ones that should be making plot decisions. I definitely agree on the first half being well thought out, then it did start to fall apart at the seams when Tigerheart’s Shadow came out way too early. It ruined any suspense, tension, or speculation that Darkest Night and River of Fire would have provided for fans to think about. If we knew what happens way before the main series timeline brought it up, why even bother reading the rest of the arc? I think it was a bad marketing move on their part. Tigerheart’s Shadow should have been released after River of Fire in my opinion.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 1:09:42 GMT -5
I definitely agree. Granted, the first half of AVOS was great, but the last half completely fell apart. I really want the authors to go to new editors. The editors are NOT the ones that should be making plot decisions. I definitely agree on the first half being well thought out, then it did start to fall apart at the seams when Tigerheart’s Shadow came out way too early. It ruined any suspense, tension, or speculation that Darkest Night and River of Fire would have provided for fans to think about. If we knew what happens way before the main series timeline brought it up, why even bother reading the rest of the arc? I think it was a bad marketing move on their part. Tigerheart’s Shadow should have been released after River of Fire in my opinion. A simple release-date fix would have made such a change! Not sure what they were thinking. Tigerheart's Shadow should have been released after River Of Fire.
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Post by Thunderheart57 on Mar 4, 2019 1:14:33 GMT -5
What would have you changed about the writing, Hazelstar? I’m curious to know since I brought up some good points.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 1:24:53 GMT -5
What would have you changed about the writing, Hazelstar? I’m curious to know since I brought up some good points. Well, first of all, I would make Darktail's reign longer. I would have him die in the beginning of River Of Fire. Him drowning and going out with Onestar I would not change because it is kind of like a poetic way of going out. Onestar makes the huge mistake. CREATES the mistake, and a mistake that would be the end of him. Him drowning with Onestar was perfect to me. Next thing would be solid character arcs for all three protagonists. Alderheart starting out as afraid and nervous, but by the end, becomes such more self-assured. Violetshine overcomes her past with growing up under Darktail's rule. She learns to not let all the horrific things she's witness define her. She also learns to forgive herself. Twigbranch, (Gets a better name, first of all!) becomes less naïve and becomes more headstrong. I'd probably have SkyClan actually show at the beginning of Shattered Sky. They prove themselves worthy of being a part of the four Clans by playing a key role in bringing down Darktail. However, even after that, some cats are still unsure(mostly because they are afraid of change, like most people are). The whole political discussion happens after they bring Darktail down, but eventually come to agree that they all should give up a piece of land, that would be SkyClan territory.
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Post by Thunderheart57 on Mar 4, 2019 1:34:32 GMT -5
What would have you changed about the writing, Hazelstar? I’m curious to know since I brought up some good points. Well, first of all, I would make Darktail's reign longer. I would have him die in the beginning of River Of Fire. Him drowning and going out with Onestar I would not change because it is kind of like a poetic way of going out. Onestar makes the huge mistake. CREATES the mistake, and a mistake that would be the end of him. Him drowning with Onestar was perfect to me. Next thing would be solid character arcs for all three protagonists. Alderheart starting out as afraid and nervous, but by the end, becomes such more self-assured. Violetshine overcomes her past with growing up under Darktail's rule. She learns to not let all the horrific things she's witness define her. She also learns to forgive herself. Twigbranch, (Gets a better name, first of all!) becomes less naïve and becomes more headstrong. I'd probably have SkyClan actually show at the beginning of Shattered Sky. They prove themselves worthy of being a part of the four Clans by playing a key role in bringing down Darktail. However, even after that, some cats are still unsure(mostly because they are afraid of change, like most people are). The whole political discussion happens after they bring Darktail down, but eventually come to agree that they all should give up a piece of land, that would be SkyClan territory. What would you have Darktail do up until his death in your version of River of Fire? Continue to threaten the Clans by overtaking their territories, killing their leaders so that he can bend cats to his cause?
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 1:37:16 GMT -5
Well, first of all, I would make Darktail's reign longer. I would have him die in the beginning of River Of Fire. Him drowning and going out with Onestar I would not change because it is kind of like a poetic way of going out. Onestar makes the huge mistake. CREATES the mistake, and a mistake that would be the end of him. Him drowning with Onestar was perfect to me. Next thing would be solid character arcs for all three protagonists. Alderheart starting out as afraid and nervous, but by the end, becomes such more self-assured. Violetshine overcomes her past with growing up under Darktail's rule. She learns to not let all the horrific things she's witness define her. She also learns to forgive herself. Twigbranch, (Gets a better name, first of all!) becomes less naïve and becomes more headstrong. I'd probably have SkyClan actually show at the beginning of Shattered Sky. They prove themselves worthy of being a part of the four Clans by playing a key role in bringing down Darktail. However, even after that, some cats are still unsure(mostly because they are afraid of change, like most people are). The whole political discussion happens after they bring Darktail down, but eventually come to agree that they all should give up a piece of land, that would be SkyClan territory. What would you have Darktail do up until his death in your version of River of Fire? Continue to threaten the Clans by overtaking their territories, killing their leaders so that he can bend cats to his cause? That. However, I was also curious how the Clans would react if they found out Darktail(in my version) had the ability to make poison out of herbs and drugging their Clanmates without them knowing why? I think it'd be cool.
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Post by scint on Mar 4, 2019 1:41:17 GMT -5
I don't think it's very good tbh. It was semi decent from the start, but very quickly declined. Heck, DotC may have had it's strong points but it certainly didn't raise the quality of the series. I'm hoping The Broken Code will turn that around. I might just make a rewritten version of Warriors in my eyes.
And this is coming from a person who likes the newer arcs.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 1:46:17 GMT -5
I don't think it's very good tbh. It was semi decent from the start, but very quickly declined. Heck, DotC may have had it's strong points but it certainly didn't raise the quality of the series. I'm hoping The Broken Code will turn that around. I might just make a rewritten version of Warriors in my eyes. And this is coming from a person who likes the newer arcs. What do you like about the newer arcs? Not that they are bad, I am just curious XD
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 4, 2019 2:13:42 GMT -5
Honestly, I never really did think the writing was all that great; I feel like all of the arcs have strong and weak points in one way or another, though some more than others.
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Post by Viperstrike on Mar 4, 2019 2:53:45 GMT -5
It's not the best, but it isn't the worst either. I think the first series is the best in terms of character, story, and over all plot. Yes, the first series was cliche and had problems of its own, but I think the fact things were kept simple is what made up for it. As the series progressed, I think the Erins bit off more than they could chew. They started adding in all of this magical, prophecy driven, mysticism which really effected the characters, plot, and story. While there were supernatural elements to the first series, they didn't control the series. Firestar was (from his point of view) just an average cat, no more special than anyone else. He tried to do what was right, because that was in his heart, not because a prophecy or because of StatClan. As the series progressed, it just became the characters do good because they're in a prophecy and they have literally no other choice. Characters aren't allowed to make their own choices, and anything outside of ~destiny~ ges critisized and condemned. I think that's why so many people were pleasently surprised by DOTC, and why that's considered one of the best arcs along with the first. While there are problems in that arc as well, they go back to a simple time, without powers and prophecy and everything else.
I think Warriors biggest problem though is the fact there's a million different people working on it, some of which without any contact with one another. This is honestly a terrible idea, and they need to have just one person working on it or at least have some sort of plan worked out with everyone on board. Everyone who works on it just does their own thing and this leads to so many problems and inconsistancies.
Over all, it's just okay. Nothing spectacular, but nothing awful either.
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Post by scint on Mar 4, 2019 3:56:39 GMT -5
I don't think it's very good tbh. It was semi decent from the start, but very quickly declined. Heck, DotC may have had it's strong points but it certainly didn't raise the quality of the series. I'm hoping The Broken Code will turn that around. I might just make a rewritten version of Warriors in my eyes. And this is coming from a person who likes the newer arcs. What do you like about the newer arcs? Not that they are bad, I am just curious XD I personally feel like the newer arcs are trying out more complex plots, which I like, but have trouble conveying them well. The plot with Darktail was a good plot, and it actually posed more of a threat than the DF had in OotS. My main problem is when they cut events too short, or drag them on too long. I also feel like the newer arcs are going for more morally gray characters and showing us way more than they did in the first arc instead of telling (debatable). We are told that Tigerstar is a loyal, strong warrior but we're never really shown it...I feel like Warriors is slowly but surely beginning to grasp on that aspect, which is nice. Overall, I think that the newer plots in the newer books are quite good, but they just need better execution. Honestly, having less writers and a publishing schedule that isn't so cramped would help matters quite a bit, if not a lot.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 4, 2019 10:29:05 GMT -5
OS and TNP were pretty good...but the others could be better, even AVOS. I've noticed the writing quality got worse as time went on.
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Post by Tas on Mar 4, 2019 12:47:34 GMT -5
It was great, then it got quite bad. Then it got great, then it got quite bad. Then it got great, and now it's pretty bad, not gonna lie. I see greatness in TBC.
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Post by hazelstar on Mar 4, 2019 12:51:16 GMT -5
What do you like about the newer arcs? Not that they are bad, I am just curious XD I personally feel like the newer arcs are trying out more complex plots, which I like, but have trouble conveying them well. The plot with Darktail was a good plot, and it actually posed more of a threat than the DF had in OotS. My main problem is when they cut events too short, or drag them on too long. I also feel like the newer arcs are going for more morally gray characters and showing us way more than they did in the first arc instead of telling (debatable). We are told that Tigerstar is a loyal, strong warrior but we're never really shown it...I feel like Warriors is slowly but surely beginning to grasp on that aspect, which is nice. Overall, I think that the newer plots in the newer books are quite good, but they just need better execution. Honestly, having less writers and a publishing schedule that isn't so cramped would help matters quite a bit, if not a lot. That's fair. I feel like they were really trying something new with AVOS and now doing it again with TBC arc.
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